Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

[TuNnL]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

People demand that no one builds new housing, and they complain every time a new high-rise condo goes up, while also complaining that there's not enough affordable housing to go around and petitioning landlords to demand that they operate at a loss.

Uhh, no. This cookie-cutter analysis doesn’t apply to Kukui Gardens, since they currently post a nearly $2 million annual profit from existing renters. And since Carmel Properties wants to turn the property into luxury condos, how does this create more affordable housing? And what other housing (or promise of future at least moderately-priced housing) has Carmel built in Hawai‘i? Oh, none? So how does your post have one iota of relevance to this thread?

[timkona]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

The red tape required to build ANYTHING has been increasing for 30 years.

The public sentiment against building ANYTHING has been increasing for 30 years.

The price of a dwelling will rise as long as the supply is continually restricted in an artificial manner.

Such is the legacy of the activist mentality.

[1stwahine]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

In the StarBulletin this morning http://starbulletin.com/2006/05/05/news/story06.html

"Kukui residents demand pledge
They tell the pending buyer of the complex to keep it affordable past the 2011 deadline"

The saga continues...

Auntie Lynn

[TuNnL]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

I am so amused by the ignorant mentality that presumes to have power over private property rights via a petition. Bwahahahaha <cough> <hack> tears streaming down face.....lol

Sorry, I tried to pick on MadAzza, but she didn’t hit back. So you are my next target. First of all, Kukui Gardens doesn’t really qualify as private property since it was partially funded with federal tax dollars specifically earmarked for the purpose of affordable housing.

But just to show you how thin your argument is, we had this thing called “mandatory lease-to-fee” conversion for more than a decade before the City Council finally repealed it. Basically, the law stomped all over private property rights because a few (most of them lived in Hawai‘i Kai) people with the mentality of leasehold rights petitioned the city. Finally last year, the city council adopted the timkona mentality - but only with a huge push from Native Hawaiian nonprofit groups who stood to lose everything. Don’t assume you won’t have to fight tooth and nail to keep the timkona mentality alive.

[timkona]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

I succeeded in pressuring the Bishop to sell us our land. It took over 2 1/2 years of badgering, but when the time came, they sold all 32 lots to everyone in my neighborhood.

I'm not sure where youre at Tunnl

[TuNnL]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

I succeeded in pressuring the Bishop to sell us our land. It took over 2 1/2 years of badgering, but when the time came, they sold all 32 lots to everyone in my neighborhood.

Looks like you play both sides of the fence, timkona. On the one hand you defend private property rights, and on the other hand, you just admitted you have fought against the rights of property owner KSBE. Whose side are you on, tim? Care to clarify?

[timkona]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

I am on the side of property rights wherein the economy benefits from the most number of owners. Leasehold, as it exists in Hawaii, is just left over feudalism rooted in a long gone monarchy style of land use.

Large land owners, like KSBE, are bad for the overall health of the economy. I'm continually astonished at the number of Hawaiians who believe the Bishop Estate is a good thing. Feudalism does not work.

[TuNnL]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

I’m glad you responded timkona, because it proves what a shallow, wishy-washy position you really represent. Property rights is a black and white issue. Either you support it or you are against it.

First of all, having large property owners does NOT inhibit the economy. We have the lowest unemployment rate in the nation. Having these “traditional” landowners ensures we will have controlled, managed growth and helps preserve our property values.

In particular, the landowner you criticize, KSBE (Kamehameha Schools Bishop Estate) is a trust set up to benefit one of the most endangered indigenous peoples in the world — native Hawaiians. The profits they make ensure they have the money to educate their people and give them opportunities to compete in the new economy that was forced on them.

I agree with you that the leasehold system is stupid. They should abolish leasehold agreements altogether and simplify things. Have only fee simple property. Anyone holding leasehold property should either buy, rent or leave the state. But they should by no means be able to force their landowner to sell. That’s just un-American.

[timkona]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

tunl, a brief review of US Supreme Court rulings concerning the Bishop Estate will set your mind straight.

[MadAzza]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

tunl, a brief review of US Supreme Court rulings concerning the Bishop Estate will set your mind straight.

There you go again, muddling up the discussion with facts!

[TuNnL]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

tunl, a brief review of US Supreme Court rulings concerning the Bishop Estate will set your mind straight.

I don’t believe the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled on anything of substance regarding the estate. (Was there even a single case they heard involving KSBE?) Perhaps the most significant case involving KSBE is scheduled to be heard June 20th by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco. It may one day, reach the U.S. Supreme Court, but let’s not count our chickens before they’re hatched.

[TuNnL]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

There you go again, muddling up the discussion with facts!

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about it. It’s scary that you are in the business.

[timkona]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refere...eo&match=exact

There you go tunl. You are too easy.

Hey Mad, facts are what make you look like the bad guy when arguing with idiots.

[TuNnL]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

Sorry, I stand corrected. Go easy on me, I was still in elementary school when this case was decided.

[timkona]

Re: Kukui Gardens to be sold 2500 Tenants to be evicted!

Okay Tunl....pardon granted.

In summary, KSBE has lost all of its appearances in USSC that were based in land use. The court basically says that the value of land in an economy is highest when spread among many owners. The reasoning is that land is equity, when used as leverage, provides access to capital which is what makes the wheels of economy spin.

One big land owner or lots of little land owners.

Various other courts in the land have granted many similar decisions.

This is the root reason why anybody on leasehold land should try to purchase the land. Bishop puts a big front, with loud barking, and lots of threats. But they know that is the only defense they have. Anybody who gets past the facade usually gets to buy their land.

It's currently happening all over South Kona, and the success stories are everywhere you find brave people willing to fight the fight against the big monster.