I don't believe

[damontucker]

I don't believe....The weather reporters on Television...

I can look outside at Manoa Valley and that can tell me what is going to happen for at least the next hour or two.

I don't believe....That Hawaii's Legislatures really care about public schools ...

When the majority of them either sent their kids to private schools... or currently send their kids to private schools... Will send their kids to private school when they get of age...or would send them if they had children.

I don't believe... most email that is sent these days from people I don't know.

So much spam out there... I swear I get more spam mail then real mail at my work account... I actually received the BOH bogus phishing email letter twice!(and I have never given that account out to anyone but family)

[kimo55]

Re: I don't believe

i don't believe manoasuffer's not opinionated.

[timkona]

Re: I don't believe

I don't believe that those bones are your relatives. Build the school anyway.

I don't believe Americans are scared of terrorism. Now go fill up the SUV.

I don't believe a virgin had a baby. Sounds like a cover story for promiscuity.

I don't believe that a man, who killed people by pushing them over a cliff, is a hero.

I don't believe you should expect to get something for nothing.

I don't believe that skin color or blood quantum makes you special.

I don't believe that success is an accident.

[scrivener]

Re: I don't believe

I don't believe....That Hawaii's Legislatures really care about public schools ...When the majority of them either sent their kids to private schools... or currently send their kids to private schools... Will send their kids to private school when they get of age...or would send them if they had children.

I think "majority" may be a bit of an overstatement, but even if it's true, the fact that they send their kids to private schools does not mean they don't care about the public schools. To think so implies that every person cares only about the education of his or her child. If this were true, I don't think there would BE public education. We have state-funded, state-administered, state-mandated education because we believe that an educated populace is productive, contributing, and law-abiding. When people send their kids to private schools, they're double-paying; they're paying for the educations of their own children and they're paying for the educations of everyone else's children. I'd think that would make them care more, wouldn't you?

I teach at a private school: Does this mean I don't care about the kids in public schools? No way. I do care, but the students at my school need something that public schools don't provide, and right now, they are my mission. I graduated from a private school. Does this mean that my parents didn't care about public schools? No way. I had certain needs that my parents didn't think public schools could support. The thing is, no public institution can cover the needs of every student: That's why we have private education and even home-schooling.

In fact, I would think that, more than the average citizen, lawmakers care about public education. These people have homes and businesses, and those homes and businesses are better off when people are being educated. When you think about it, they took jobs where they actually have the power to influence public education. What are the average citizens doing to better public schools? Can you name three members of the BOE? Do you remember who you voted for in the BOE elections last year? Do you know where your own state reps and senators stand on important education-related issues? When you voted for your reps on the BOE, did you make an educated, informed vote, or did you go by name-recognition?

I am not targeting you, Manoasurfer; I just keep hearing this criticism, and lately I'm wondering how much water it holds.

[damontucker]

Re: I don't believe

I think "majority" may be a bit of an overstatement, but even if it's true, the fact that they send their kids to private schools does not mean they don't care about the public schools. To think so implies that every person cares only about the education of his or her child. If this were true, I don't think there would BE public education. We have state-funded, state-administered, state-mandated education because we believe that an educated populace is productive, contributing, and law-abiding. When people send their kids to private schools, they're double-paying; they're paying for the educations of their own children and they're paying for the educations of everyone else's children. I'd think that would make them care more, wouldn't you?

I teach at a private school: Does this mean I don't care about the kids in public schools? No way. I do care, but the students at my school need something that public schools don't provide, and right now, they are my mission. I graduated from a private school. Does this mean that my parents didn't care about public schools? No way. I had certain needs that my parents didn't think public schools could support. The thing is, no public institution can cover the needs of every student: That's why we have private education and even home-schooling.

In fact, I would think that, more than the average citizen, lawmakers care about public education. These people have homes and businesses, and those homes and businesses are better off when people are being educated. When you think about it, they took jobs where they actually have the power to influence public education. What are the average citizens doing to better public schools? Can you name three members of the BOE? Do you remember who you voted for in the BOE elections last year? Do you know where your own state reps and senators stand on important education-related issues? When you voted for your reps on the BOE, did you make an educated, informed vote, or did you go by name-recognition?

I am not targeting you, Manoasurfer; I just keep hearing this criticism, and lately I'm wondering how much water it holds.

Scriv -

Mahalo for your input...

I work for DOE and the majority of my co-workers fall under the same "sent their kids to private schools... or currently send their kids to private schools... Will send their kids to private school when they get of age...or would send them if they had children."

We know at administrative levels how poor our schools are doing.

I will PM you with the rest of my thoughts...

Once again a well thought out post by the Scrivman

Manoa

[timkona]

Re: I don't believe

If DOE employees won't send their kids to public schools, is that an admission that you suck at your job? And if not you, then why are you protective of somebody who DOES suck at their job in the DOE? That makes you an accomplice. No Shame in Hawaii.

[scrivener]

Re: I don't believe

The problem is not that these people all don't care; the problem is that nobody can seem to agree on what needs to be done, and where it's all supposed to start. This No Child Left Behind Act points directly to teachers and principals first, which is probably where the first fingers SHOULD be pointed; however, it's easier to say "the teachers and principals aren't doing their jobs" than to say, "What can we do to help teachers and principals do their jobs?"

So if lawmakers, bureaucrats, teachers, principals, parents, and even students care, what each person needs to do is not to say, "So-and-so needs to do THIS," but to say, "Hey. You care, I care, these guys over here care. What can each of us do to make sure THIS happens?"

Unfortunately, that's not exactly what's happening, because, as I said, it's just easier to blame someone else.

[damontucker]

Re: I don't believe

If DOE employees won't send their kids to public schools, is that an admission that you suck at your job? And if not you, then why are you protective of somebody who DOES suck at their job in the DOE? That makes you an accomplice. No Shame in Hawaii.

No this is not an admission that we suck at our jobs. I think we all do excellent at our jobs given what tools that we have to work with.

I think most of us in DOE work to the best of our "given" ability.

However, the working conditions that we are given... it makes our job very difficult sometimes.

How can you call me an accomplice...when I work my ass off everyday to try and improve DOE?

Yes, I get Hypocritical sometimes...but when you attack individual employees instead of the "system" then I will have to say you are wrong Timkona...(no wonder why you didn't get elected... you brush people the wrong way)

I've read your threads for a while now...and will you please stop with the "politics" of No!

NO now... please?

I've only added one person to my ignore list on HT... I'd hate to have to add another because of personal and ignorant responses to my threads.

Mahalo,

Manoasurfer123

[sinjin]

Re: I don't believe

I don't believe in objectivity.

[timkona]

Re: I don't believe

but when you attack individual employees instead of the "system" then I will have to say you are wrong Timkona

it must be a fine line, that I don't see, when separating the DOE "employees" from the DOE "system"

You know why I rub people the wrong way? Because I'm not afraid to tell it like it is. No Gloss. No Political Correctness. No BS. And most folks can't handle the truth, when it's delivered without some sweet sauce. It's the same as the "dont kill the messenger" line.

The ignore function in these forums is simply a way for some people to trample on the First Amendment, in their own private Idaho.

Manoa, you seem like one of the good soldiers in the DOE to me. So if you won't blow the whistle on nitwit co-workers, or other DOE mistakes, then would you please be so kind as to email me privately with details, such that I can shake the appropriate branch on the tree. I may not have been elected, but running for politics opened up some pretty big connections in the state, at many different levels.

[LikaNui]

Re: I don't believe

You know why I rub people the wrong way? Because I'm not afraid to tell it like it is.

(Coffee ----> nose ----> keyboard and monitor.)

[Leo Lakio]

Re: I don't believe

And most folks can't handle the truth

The truth, I can handle just fine.

It's with personal opinions professing to be "the truth" - that's where I have a problem.

Be it politics, religion, whatever - don't try to force-feed me your beliefs or values. You can present them to me as your own perspective, and I'll listen respectfully - you might even get me to change my mind about something, or see your point of view more clearly.

But start deriding me for having a different opinion than you, and you have just shut the door on reasonable discourse.

[sinjin]

Re: I don't believe

It's with personal opinions professing to be "the truth" - that's where I have a problem.

Precisely. A legend in his own mind.

[Miulang]

Re: I don't believe

There's a big difference between telling the truth and being able to convince others to believe you v. telling the truth in a way (as in "my way or the highway") so that no one wants to listen. There's something to be said about using honey instead of vinegar to catch dem flies!

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Re: I don't believe

I don't believe Timkona is all that bad as perceived (Right Tim) but instead of looking at the accusations we should look at the message. Timkona is frustrated and probably angry at the "system" and all that is involved with it.

I do believe that there is room for improvement when it comes to public education and that there's plenty of sources to blame for what is not happening within our public schools.

One teacher can only do so much for the sake of their students. And for those that try to do the best within their means shows a strong teacher or teaching staff.

When it comes to support, I truly believe the HSTA must be more aggressive when it comes to support for their union members. In any other unionized labor force, if a union member had to pay for supplies to accomodate his union job and not get reimbursed for it, the union would be in there to fight for that person. Where is the HSTA when it comes to issues like these?

When it comes to support, I truly believe the Parents must be more partipatory when it comes to the education of their keiki. I see more support for their kids out on the soccer and baseball fields than in their own classrooms. Wher are the parents when it comes to issues like these?

When it comes to support, I truly believe the school administration must be more supportive of their teaching staff. A good leader leads by example...servant leadership always proves to be the best way. Administrative staff is there to support the operations or the meat of the organization by providing all the Human Resourcing to keep the operation running smoothly. Where is the administration when it comes to issues like these?

So where do the teachers fit in? They are the pinnicle of education because they are the administrators of it and they deserve every bit of support the HSTA, Administration, and parents can give. Where is it? Instead of finding the truth, everyone is point the finger of blame on everybody else instead of listening to each other. You can't learn by talking as the saying goes, and we all got to just shut up for a minute and listen to the message instead of getting all pissy over it.

Timkona has a valid statement albeit a bit misguided in the finger pointing. But instead of bashing the messenger, we should look at the truths in his statements instead of the subjectivity of it.

We can all learn by looking at our adversaries and trying to understand why they're so upset. Perhaps resolution can be quicker than later if we try to understand the message instead of the emotion.

We could end wars if we only followed simple rules like that and other issues like these.

One thing we can all relate to is that there is a problem with public education and I don't believe everyone here doesn't believe that.