Overthrows

[timkona]

Re: Overthrows

To me, racism exists anytime you start to categorize people based on origin, ethnicity, skin color, etc. As practiced in Hawaii, racism is rampant.

I don't mind if you give financial entitlements to an economic class, and it just so happens that most are of a certain color. But you can't base the decisions on the color.

I am not very good at racism. I was taught the benefit of "merit" as a defining criteria in humanity.

Racism and Social Darwinism are not similar. Social Darwinism embraces the notion that all men are created equal. Some make better choices than others along the way.

As a side note, I visited the Hawaiian Center at the King Kam Hotel yesterday. During the conversation, the ladies there were lamenting the lack of opportunity in Hawaii for people born here. I noted that it seems to me an advantage to be born here, especially from a business point of view, through contacts and networking. They said that's not the case. So I said "Are you saying being born here is a 'disadvantage'?" They stumbled on their cognitive dissonance while I smiled.

[Miulang]

Re: Overthrows

As a side note, I visited the Hawaiian Center at the King Kam Hotel yesterday. During the conversation, the ladies there were lamenting the lack of opportunity in Hawaii for people born here. I noted that it seems to me an advantage to be born here, especially from a business point of view, through contacts and networking. They said that's not the case. So I said "Are you saying being born here is a 'disadvantage'?" They stumbled on their cognitive dissonance while I smiled.

I don't see why you think you are superior to those women just because they couldn't give you an answer you thought was worthy and articulate. If they believe that it's a disadvantage to be born in Hawai'i, then that's their perception, based on THEIR lives, not yours. If you're allowed to speak your perceptions, then let others have their own, without trying to judge them. And it's the King KAMEHAMEHA Hotel, not "King Kam" if you want to respect the people and the land who welcomed you to their island.

Miulang

[waioli kai]

unHoly fabric, strands of, among the stranded, forgotten, ignored, abUSed: Overthrows

Paul= - "It's funny how he reviles racists and nazis yet has views similar to them."--

He/she is of the same unholy fabric as "compassionate conservative"; "We, US, care so much about our children, whom We put in private schools, that We are going to tell all of America, including Hawaii and Hawai'ians how to run their public schools; leave no child behind and don't bitch when We cut education funds to you so as to better feed Our insatiable 'US Defense' Monster"; "We'll tell you what kamehameha schools can and cannot do"; "We'll decide who is to be represented by 0ffice of hawai'ian affairs, if indeed 0ha should even exist seeing as how 0ha is, but for US restraints, a racist entity"; "America!! Hallelujah !! Love US or Leave US !.! you've been warned"; " 'God Bless US All', and may He send the rest of Humanity to Hell, on the end of one Our missiles, preferably"

Our, the United States', the World's unholy fabric, full of holes and increasingly in want of misguided souls seeking shelter/security, immunity, under its bigotry, hypocrisy, wasteful indulgence and utterly wanton facilities of reason and human compassion, this unholy web of fibroUS strands leaves no one unaffected. Through its holes is plainly seen East Sudan, Somalia, Congo, Palestine and more not deemed worth cultivation, utilization or occupation by justUS, and allies of justUS.

[sinjin]

Re: Overthrows

...it just so happens that most are of a certain color.

It just so happens? You must be joking.

I do salute your work ethic Tim and I'm sure there are many things we aren't far apart on.

[waioli kai]

Re: Overthrows

.

timkona= -"As practiced in Hawaii, racism is rampant."

"As practiced in Hawaii...?" Racism-free Los Angeles, Houston, Miami, Boise, Cinncinnati, Philidelphia, Chicago, New York just put Hawaii to shame, yes?

Or, is it that WASPS find Hawaii to be the only state where, so far, they're just a minority among minorities. Every ethnicity in Hawai'i celebrates or otherwise honors their race and culture except for European-Americans who on the whole just think of themselves as "white". What is "white" culture? Shop-til-u-drop? Strip malls? nascar track drink-a-thons? excessive-wealth-worship? idolatry? beauty pagents? warfare? celebrity worship? golf? divorce? The truth is US "whites" don't have culture, which is why many white haole in Hawai'i are so appreciative of Hawai'ian culture.

The inclusive nature of Hawai'ian culture is the essence of Aloha. Aloha is not forced. Aloha cannot be demanded, bought or sold. Without mutual respect, without mutual security, without recognition and appreciation of the hosts ,these islands Hawai'i and those evolving from native islanders and their culture, without a just and hopeful future for Hawai'ians, it is most unfounded to believe that Aloha can or should be an unconditional state of the Hawai'ian mind.

timkona= - "I am not very good at racism. I was taught the benefit of "merit" as a defining criteria in humanity."--

Well then meritocracy must be your kind of government, unless you are suffering a spell of that 'cognitive dissonance' about which, unlike 'racism', you claim to be such an expert at diagnosing.

Meritocracy is a system of government based on rule by ability (merit) rather than by wealth or social position. If rule by wealth and social position does not define at least the most recent century of U.S. history, then nothing will. However, leave it to those who most benefit from rule by wealth and social position to claim that merit is not defined by the power elite simply to legitimize a system in which social status is actually determined by class, birth, and wealth. Nothing dissonate about that, is there?

timkona= -"Social Darwinism embraces the notion that all men are created equal." --

Nothing like inventing definitions! That is exactly what Social Darwinism is not.

timkona= - "Racism and Social Darwinism are not similar." --

Historically, proponents of Social Darwinism often used the theory to justify social inequality as being meritocratic, and it has also been used to justify racism and imperialism, in a cultural application of Herbert Spencer's idea of the "survival of the fittest."

social Darwinism
: an extension of Darwinism to social phenomena; specifically : a sociological theory that sociocultural advance is the product of intergroup conflict and competition and the socially elite classes (as those possessing wealth and power) possess biological superiority in the struggle for existence

patriarchy: hypothetical social system based on the absolute authority of the father or an elderly male over the family group. Inspired by the classical social Darwinism of the 19th century, the pioneering anthropologists Lewis Henry Morgan and Henry Maine envisioned cultures as having developed through evolutionary stages, one of which was patriarchy: that all status or relationship in the earliest societies derived from a patriarchal kinship system and that all decisions of social consequence were the arbitrary judgments of a quasi-tyrannical patriarch. Encyclopædia Britannica Article

The theory Social Darwinism was used to support laissez-faire capitalism and political conservatism. Class stratification was justified on the basis of “natural” inequalities among individuals, for the control of property was said to be a correlate of superior and inherent moral attributes such as industriousness, temperance, and frugality. Attempts to reform society through state intervention or other means would, therefore, interfere with natural processes; unrestricted competition and defense of the status quo were in accord with biological selection. The poor were the “unfit” and should not be aided; in the struggle for existence, wealth was a sign of success. Encyclopædia Britannica Article (all ___ and italics added, w k)

dissonance == Lack of agreement, consistency

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Overthrows

To me, racism exists anytime you start to categorize people based on origin, ethnicity, skin color, etc.

OK, thank you. Your definition of racism is a very pure one, and as such, I can't really call it either "good" or "bad"; in fact, I think it's rather unavoidable. Human beings are prone to categorize, sort, and try to organize the world by a variety of means. We can't help but notice aspects of the people we see and meet - the color of their skin, their approximate age, how they dress, the way they speak, their gender, the length of their hair, physical diabilities, the scent of their breath, etc. - and we make automatic and instinctive judgements based on our life experiences to date.

Example, based on skin color: where I went to junior high school (not in Hawai`i), the racial mix was about 40% African-American, 50% Caucasian, 10% a variety of others (Latino & Asian-American, mostly.) As a scrawny white kid, I got beaten up a few times by black kids. Today, many years beyond, do those incidences trigger fear when I see a black person (whom I do not personally know?)

Maybe, just a slight memory twinge, deep down inside, yes. By your definition, is that racism, because I am categorizing an individual simply by their skin color? Yes, I believe you would say that it is. Is it "bad" or "good"? In and of itself, I don't think you could say that it is either one.

Now, what I choose to DO, based on that inner twinge, could be classified as "bad" - say, if I go punch them, because I believe they would otherwise beat me up - or if I mutter or shout an offensive epithet - or if I somehow influence my employers to never hire African-Americans.

But what if, during those school days, I became close friends with some of those same kids who beat me up? If I went to their homes, met their families, learned about the abuses they suffered simply as a result of their skin color? As a result, perhaps I chose to participate in a civil-rights march, or contributed money to the NAACP - behavior that might be classified as "good," though would still fit your definition of racism.

So I'll try to sum it up, and I hope you will consider this as an answer to your earlier question of "Racism - good or bad?" Using your definition quoted above, I would have to say "racism," in and of itself, is neither good NOR bad, but your personal behavior based on said categorization can be either. I do not see that as cognitive dissonance.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Overthrows

a funny thing about that term "skin color".

I have always thought it an Americanism that never translated well here. We are all sorts of beige on this side of the planet. Hawai'i's classist issues lie more on language and manners than any other, followed by one's "nationalities" (the term I grew up hearing/used). Meaning, three local Japanese boys would enjoy having two Haole boys to make up their nifty team of Five Rangers if they all speak similarly (pidgin or standard English; country boys and townie boys do talk differently).

Commonality will bind us, because we are island people and we need to take care of each other, not vote people off the island (or tossed off the pali).

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Overthrows

a funny thing about that term "skin color".
I have always thought it an Americanism that never translated well here. We are all sorts of beige on this side of the planet.

Nice perspective - mahalo.