Overthrows

[Miulang]

Re: Overthrows

Forget racism; it's all about POLITICS. The politics of domination.

Miulang

[waioli kai]

modern Anti-Hawai'ian independence cabalUSt$, Re: Overthrows

'

timkona= .....racism...have undermined our future
A book, with a political view that is agreed with, demonizes racism and folks respect the authors opinion.
Then you turn to other threads in this forum where racism is thrown about like confetti at a football game.
So what's it gonna be folks - Racism: good or bad?
Too funny. The level of cognitive dissonance that I see sometimes in this forum is just laughable. =

--- racism also called racialism : any action, practice, or belief that reflects the racial worldview—the ideology that humans are divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called "races," that there is a causal link between inherited physical traits and traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural behavioral features, and that some races are innately superior to others. --Encyclopædia Britannica Article

In the above defintion of racism , there is nothing that applies to those in and of Hawai'i whose indigeneous hertitage and center of being is Hawai'i: the "Northwestern Islands", Ni'ihau, Kaua'i, O'ahu, Maui, Moloka'i, Kaho'olawe, Lana'i, Hawai'i island.

Hawai'ian "racial worldview" ? Really?? Like there is held in Hawai'ians some deep-rooted imperialistic, indeed fascistic, drive to insist that European Anglo-Saxon/Jewish Christian-Americans, Japanese, Columbians, Indonesians, Southeast Asians, indeed the world, bow down to those in whom, in whose progeny, is manifested the evolution of the indigenous heritage of these islands? As opposed to manifesting the inherited wealth of the militant corportist, militant zionist state of USrael, USrael being the United States' 51st State: Israel, where religious preferencing is institutionalized, at United States' taxpayers ' expense?

Hawai'ian "racial worldview"? The Hayden Burgess cabal would have all believe that Hawai'ians are a people who have recently lived, who now live, who one day will be insisting to perpetuate Hawai'i through purity of bloodline, minimal contamination of their indigenous gene pool. Throughout the last two centuries, Hawai'ians have proven that they are only too happy, maybe too too happy too often, to diversify their gene pool. That's likely been the singlemost factor contributing to Hawai'ans survival through the inadvertent germ warfare-like past two centuries in Hawai'i.

Hawai'ians? A threatening "Ideology" ? Give me a break!! When the attorney Hayden, alias "Poka Laenui ", Burgesses Anti-Hawai'ian independence cabalUSt$, alias "activists", say "Aloha for All", they expose the inherent ignorance of the U.S. corporati$t ideology which manife$ts through them. Malicious ideologues can only have a world view that is driven by paranoia, espoused in unfounded, fear-mongering rhetoric.

--- Those who practice racism also hold that only low-status jobs should go to low-status races (African Americans and Indians in North America, blacks and Coloureds in South Africa) and that members of the economically and culturally dominant race alone should have access to privileges, political power, economic resources, high-status jobs, and unrestricted civil rights. The lived experience of racism for members of low-status races can include daily insults and frequent acts and verbal expressions of contempt and disrespect, all of which have profound effects on social relationships -- Encyclopædia Britannica Article

" There you go again !! Those damn Hawai'ians and their high-minded ways making us haole, US Americans do all the work . And for what? They get all the privileges, political power, economic resources, high-status jobs, and unrestricted civil rights. They insult US, they commit frequent acts and verbal expressions of contempt and disrespect on US, all these high-minded Hawai'ian ways have profound effects on social relationships among US. We need our Civil Rights Commission to protect US from the evils of racism, evils well known to US because the United States has long enabled when not otherwise manifested the evils of racism for the economic and political benefit of US." , say, in unison, the Burgess-minded 'activists', reactionists.

[timkona]

Re: Overthrows

members of the economically and culturally dominant race alone should have access to privileges,

Maybe it should be that only members of the economically and culturally submissive race should be given special considerations or entitlements? Or is that what we have now?

Or perhaps maybe we should eliminate all reference to race in society?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Overthrows

Or perhaps maybe we should eliminate all reference to race in society?

But how - realistically, how could this be accomplished?

I know that you would prefer that programs designed to give special dispensation, compensation or benefits to "culturally submissive" groups be eliminated, but most of those programs were (as you know) developed to compensate for generations of imbalance.

As a member of the dominant class (white males), I think you can still understand why those who are NOT of that group would have problems with you saying "okay, the counters are reset to zero, tabula rasa, the past is irrelevant; all that matters is from today forward - no special programs for anyone."

Unless you can find a way to guarantee that everyone can progress from the exact same starting line, how can race-based social safety nets be eliminated?

[timkona]

Re: Overthrows

Your right Leo. Everybody should start from the same starting line. Perhaps all men are NOT created equal?

If we require that everyone have the same starting line, perhaps we should also require that everyone apply themselves to the task equally. But if you require a person to perform 18 hours a day as I sometimes do, and they are not up to the task mentally, then is that the point where you give them some entitlement that you won't give to me? I never got any scholarships, grants, SBA loans, or assistance of any kind along the way. Is it better to make it on your own, or have a dependency mentality that presupposes your inability to make it? Sounds to me like a lot of this is wrapped in self esteem issues.

It's all liberal horse manure in my opinion. And I'm not gonna be politically correct on this one.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Overthrows

Your right Leo. Everybody should start from the same starting line. Perhaps all men are NOT created equal?

If we require that everyone have the same starting line, perhaps we should also require that everyone apply themselves to the task equally. But if you require a person to perform 18 hours a day as I sometimes do, and they are not up to the task mentally, then is that the point where you give them some entitlement that you won't give to me? I never got any scholarships, grants, SBA loans, or assistance of any kind along the way. Is it better to make it on your own, or have a dependency mentality that presupposes your inability to make it? Sounds to me like a lot of this is wrapped in self esteem issues.

It's all liberal horse manure in my opinion. And I'm not gonna be politically correct on this one.

Thank you, Tim, but as you are fond of pointing out - you avoided answering my question. Instead, you posed a scenario with questions of its own.

[sinjin]

Re: Overthrows

As a member of the dominant class (white males), I think you can still understand why those who are NOT of that group would have problems with you saying "okay, the counters are reset to zero, tabula rasa, the past is irrelevant; all that matters is from today forward - no special programs for anyone.

Exactly right. You have to own the history of your own people. If that history has given others "self esteem issues" then you must work to lift them up again.

[timkona]

Re: Overthrows

Nobody can give somebody else self esteem issues. It comes from within. Self-confidence is a trait that comes from a given individual's level of initiative.

History is written by the survivors. Man's conquest of Man is the summary of the history of the world.

When the Lion ate the Zebra, do you think he felt sorry, or sated?

Darwin nailed it. Funny how a liberal will espouse Darwin's theories and villify religion. But when it comes to somebody's inability to accomplish life, libs first instinct is to say "You can't make it on your own, that's why you need me". Entitlements don't exist in nature. Just more examples of liberal cognitive dissonance.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Overthrows

liberal horse manure

a liberal will

libs first instinct

more examples of liberal cognitive dissonance

You really need to find a second note on that piano, Tim - your tune is getting old. Rather than answering questions posed to you, you continue to spin your own scenarios, avoid the questions, and resort to name-calling and generalizations.

[sinjin]

Re: Overthrows

Nobody can give somebody else self esteem issues.

I'm astounded you can believe such a thing. V-8 brain indeed.

[Paul]

Re: Overthrows

Unless I'm mistaken, I also see that Timkona is a firm believer in Social Darwinism, the fittest man will survive. This was not actually something Darwin himself believed. It is something others, the nazis among them, twisted his theories into. It's funny how he reviles racists and nazis yet has views similar to them.

[Jonah K]

Re: Overthrows

Unless I'm mistaken, I also see that Timkona is a firm believer in Social Darwinism, the fittest man will survive. This was not actually something Darwin himself believed. It is something others, the nazis among them, twisted his theories into. It's funny how he reviles racists and nazis yet has views similar to them.

It's just an example of "cognitive dissonance".... Of course, I'd like to see how this relates to the "politics of NO."

[timkona]

Re: Overthrows

Well Leo, try to sing along.

For 30+ years, liberal cognitive dissonance has been parading through society like a drunken sailor on shore leave. There are examples of cognitive dissonance on the conservative side of politics also. So don't get me wrong. I'm an equal opportunity offender. I simply do NOT sit idly by while others make a show of their ignorance or their illogical belief systems that are rife with mutually exclusive thought patterns, which is the root of cognitive dissonance. IMHO, it is also the reason why Dems have so little time accumulated sitting in the White House for the last 30-40 years.

It is noteworthy that you, Leo, are seldom in my crosshairs. I attribute that to your high level of intelligence, which is why I always think we would have fun together, sipping ice cold adult beverages.

I will continue to use the term cognitive dissonance when I see the opportunity.

How is racism related to social darwinism, unless you make the assumption that some races are naturally superior to others? So much for "all men created equal".

Have you read "The Bell Curve"?

[sinjin]

Re: Overthrows

How is racism related to social darwinism, unless you make the assumption that some races are naturally superior to others?

Social and economic advantage gained through historical subjugation of other races. That's how.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Overthrows

It is noteworthy that you, Leo, are seldom in my crosshairs. I attribute that to your high level of intelligence, which is why I always think we would have fun together, sipping ice cold adult beverages.

In my best singing voice: very kind of you to make that attribution - I hope it is also because I will make an effort to NOT fall into name-calling or insulting posts (though I apologize for having done so some time ago.)

I don't know that we could call it "fun," but at least I hope our conversations would be respectful and intelligent, as we try to have them here on HT. More likely, I'd be inclined (in person) to just stay off the topics where we know we will be in constant disagreement. I think I'd have to do the same with many other regular posters here, as there are a number of clever, creative and wise folks whose politics are far to the right of my own. Instead, it would be "fun" to find the areas where we share common ground.

Getting back to answering a couple of your questions - I've not read "The Bell Curve," thank you for the suggestion. Also, regarding "racism - good or bad" - help me out with your personal definition of racism; not the dictionary's, but your own. Then, I will try to answer; thanks.