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  • Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

    This might be a off topic, but who knows!

    Hey, how do you guys feel about non-pacific islanders (non hawiaiian/samoan/tahitian/etc) having polynesian motiff tattoos?

    I just came across this... http://tattoo.about.com/cs/articles/a/maori_tamoko.htm

    And wanted to get your feelings on this...

    I lived in hawaii for 4 years, was a pastor there, and I was thinking of getting a tattoo on my trip back there in June/July. Interested in your feelings.

    Thanks!

    Haole Guy....

  • #2
    Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

    They're very popular. But I wouldn't get one, just like I wouldn't give my (non-Hawaiian) child a Hawaiian name. If you're a haole guy, why not reach back into your own ethnic past? The ancient Europeans had tattoos, too. Do a Celtic knot, or get Viking runes scrawled up your arm, instead.
    Last edited by Glen Miyashiro; May 16, 2006, 01:33 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

      How would you feel if it were in solidarity with, respect for, or love of someone from an ethnic background outside your own? Say, for example, if my Nikkeijin sweetie wanted me to get "ai" tattooed on my arm? Or getting the Tibetan flag, since I have been a supporter of Tibetan rights campaigns for decades?

      (These examples are just for discussion and speculation; I have neither of them.)

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      • #4
        Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

        Originally posted by Leo Lakio
        How would you feel if it were in solidarity with, respect for, or love of someone from an ethnic background outside your own? Say, for example, if my Nikkeijin sweetie wanted me to get "ai" tattooed on my arm? Or getting the Tibetan flag, since I have been a supporter of Tibetan rights campaigns for decades?
        OK, here's where I'm coming from on this. The way I see it, if you get a tattoo from someone else's culture, it's like you're identifying yourself with that culture. You're saying, I have a tie to these people, even though I'm not one of them. And the question is, is it appropriate to do that? Do you actually have a connection of some sort to that culture, to that people? For me, just thinking that Polynesian tattoo designs are way cool (which they are) is not a strong enough connection that I would feel right in getting one for myself. Others, obviously, feel differently.

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        • #5
          Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

          In the article, it speaks of copying geneology tattooing. Of course that wouldn't be proper, but if you find some Polynesian design artwork that either has meaning (surfer, sea-turtle, etc.) for you, or just nice looking (modern - Tribal, or ancient triangles, etc.) then go for it! It's your body and since you're not into offending anyone, I doubt that you will.
          Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

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          • #6
            Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

            Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro
            You're saying, I have a tie to these people, even though I'm not one of them. And the question is, is it appropriate to do that?
            I think that's the crux of your statement right there. So in the examples I gave, perhaps the first one (the Nikkeijin sweetie's request) might be a bit more "appropriate" than the second, if it were as simple as creating a "scale of appropriateness."

            In answer to the original question - a lot of people would feel that it is not appropriate (and in some cases, insulting) to use such imagery from a culture not your own, unless you have some link to that culture, stronger than just thinking it is cool. Use of traditional Hawaiian symbols by non-Hawaiians is a particularly sensitive topic, and would certainly be frowned upon by most Hawaiians - especially if the use is by those who profess a love of and respect for Hawaiian culture; it would be hypocritical to then "borrow" imagery from that culture.

            Every culture will probably have a different take on this, too. Would descendents of the Celts have a problem with all the Celtic knots being used by non-Celts? Some would, I suspect. I was taught that only those related to a specific Scots clan are entitled to wear the tartan (unique plaid pattern) of that clan. I can trace my lineage in Clan Wallace, for example, yet the Wallace plaid is one of the most commonly used patterns throughout the world today. Non-clan members who wear it likely do so because they think it looks good, and are unaware of the history of the pattern.

            Am I upset that they wear it? No. What would I like them to do? Learn more about the history of tartans in general, actually. But that's also not the same as having a tattoo permanently inked onto your skin, which has a different level of significance than an article of clothing.

            Just random thoughts...

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            • #7
              Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

              I know that this is going to come as a shocker for some of you, but I have to agree that getting a Hawaiian Tattoo without having some sort of appropriate tie to it would be inappropriate. They are very cool, and I had actually thought about getting one when I first moved here. I started considering what they really meant to the people who had them, and I could not justify getting one since I had no connection to it.

              I will say though that if you are going to do it, you should be required to do it the old fashion way with either the sharks tooth and hammer or I think they also used bamboo shoots. There are probably people on this forum that have more expertise on this topic than I do. Can anyone provide a historical lesson on acient Hawaiian tatooing techniques?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

                Originally posted by haole_pupule
                I will say though that if you are going to do it, you should be required to do it the old fashion way with either the sharks tooth and hammer or I think they also used bamboo shoots.
                If you want to restrict people to using traditional tattoo equipment, you should also restrict them to authentic Hawaiian tattoos.

                Not Samoan, not Tongan, not Maori. Hawaiian.

                Those arm bands that everyone and their brother likes to get? NOT authentic.

                Keoni Nunes does traditional tattoos, but when a Jewish haole and his friend from A&E's "Miami Ink" came out to film an episode, he worked on both of them. He also took the time to get to know them a little bit, and designed tattoos for each one that had individual meaning.

                Burl wrote a good story on a book that came out almost 10 years ago... still got it on my bookshelf at home.

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                • #9
                  Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

                  First post......

                  Is a tattoo different than, lets say, a shirt?

                  Does that mean only a surfer can wear HIC gear? Or only a Hawaiian can wear a Hawaiian shirt?

                  Clothing and tattoos are forms of self expression, where does one draw the line (or does a line even need to be drawn)?

                  Not trolling. Serious question.
                  You Look Like I Need A Drink

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                  • #10
                    Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

                    For the Samoans that I have talked to, their tattoos identify there family and each symbol represents a person in their family. Imagine if I were to take your family picture album put my name on it and walk around and say it was mine.

                    I do get a kick out of the tourists that wear their rash guards Duke's. It is always good for a laugh.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

                      Just to clarify: The last comment was in reference to HIC gear. I went to Dukes last weekend showing some people around from the mainland, and this guy had on an HIC rash guard sitting at the bar.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

                        Done respectfully using appropriate designs, I've not heard serious objections from those native people I have encountered. Some of the first Europeans/Americans to visit the South Pacific were tattooed by the islanders. It's important to stay away from family symbols both for Maori and Samoan styles. It is my understanding that very little survives of original Hawaiian designs and as such presents some unique problems. Some of the only drawings of Hawaiian tattooing are of royalty.

                        I have Kirituhi tattooing on my forearm as well as Tahitian/Marquesan work on my shin. Both done while visiting those lands. In the case of the Maori people, the tradition was nearly obliterated but survived as tattooing(it was not originally) thanks in part to pakeha artists. In Hawaii the forms of modern tattooing sometimes borrow symbols from other arts like carving and weaving since the actual designs favored for tattooing are scarce and/or inappropriate for commoners.

                        If we discourage people from celebrating or paying tribute to the cultures of others, tattooing being a pretty serious commitment, what are we encouraging?
                        Last edited by sinjin; May 17, 2006, 05:10 AM.
                        “First we fought the preliminary round for the k***s and now we’re gonna fight the main event for the n*****s."
                        http://hollywoodbitchslap.com/review...=416&printer=1

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                        • #13
                          Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

                          I agree. Kirituhi is acceptable. Ta Moko is treasured is considered sacred (just like haole_pupule's reference to a "family picture album".

                          Seems like the fine line is between "paying tribute" and "actually have a connection of some sort to that culture".

                          As always, it is a matter of perception, and people's perceptions differ.

                          Would it just suck if we all thought the same way???
                          You Look Like I Need A Drink

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                          • #14
                            Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

                            Originally posted by nachodaddy
                            I agree. Kirituhi is acceptable. Ta Moko is treasured is considered sacred (just like haole_pupule's reference to a "family picture album".

                            Seems like the fine line is between "paying tribute" and "actually have a connection of some sort to that culture".

                            As always, it is a matter of perception, and people's perceptions differ.

                            Would it just suck if we all thought the same way???
                            I have known a few non-Maoris to have facial tattooing done in the Ta Moko style. Tattoo artists. They contacted native artists in Aotearoa(NZ) and had original designs created by these Maori artists that could be put on non-Maoris without giving offense.

                            http://www.zulutattoo.com/Galleries/...et-Jackson.htm
                            “First we fought the preliminary round for the k***s and now we’re gonna fight the main event for the n*****s."
                            http://hollywoodbitchslap.com/review...=416&printer=1

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                            • #15
                              Re: Polynesian/Tribal Tattoos

                              In my experience some Pacific cultures are more sensitive than others to people who are not from their culture using their tattoo designs. Maori seem to be about the most sensitive - possibly because so many of their designs are very specific to a particular family. I've heard that Marquesans are somewhat sensitive, but I never met any so I don't know that for sure.

                              I went to Rarotonga in the Cook Islands and visited a Rarotongan tattoo artist, Ti, who has his studio by the harbour in Avarua. I said I'd like to have a Cook Islands design and would he recommend one. He said that was fine and talked to me about what I do and my interests for a while. Then he thought a while and drew something on my arm - it's a really nice design symbolising migrating fish. I love the sea and swimming and diving. So he did me a really nice tattoo using that design.

                              I also corresponded with Keali'i Reichel about tattoo designs - he has written some very profound things about them so I really valued his advice. He was very encouraging so I went ahead with a tattoo I was thinking of. A lot depends on who you talk to. I am happy with the tattoos I have, all of which reflect my love of the pacific and its people. Keali'i said that one of the reasons he has tattoos is because every day he sees them and they remind him of things that he loves. Sounds good to me.

                              Peter F

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