Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

[Keith H.]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Ummm...isn't that called...blackmail?

Maybe, but I'd be surprised if Doe's attorneys didn't push for something like that to stand down, considering they've been fighting tooth and nail up to this point.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

A little bird told me today that a particular, high profile, HNL lawyer has about 15 plaintiffs lined up and ready to go down this same road again. Deep pockets make great targets when said pockets are full of logical holes.

the bird you talked to must be on crack, or it was singing in a language you don't understand correctly. there is no way any "high profile, HNL lawyer" would go against KSBE on this issue. if you're not smart enough to know that most if not all large and prominent honolulu law firms have business with KSBE on a daily basis, either as their own client or as a player on another side of the table in a deal their client is trying to work, then...you were born stupid.

the recent attys who have gone on the anti-hawaiian side (for lack of a better way to describe the position) are middling at best in terms of hawaii prominence. goemans? hilo atty, not HNL atty. hannifin? full disclosure--he was a partner at a small firm i used to work at, which dissolved only after about three years of organization. martindale.com lists hannifin as having merely a BV rating. note that ratings are bestowed upon an you by attorneys whom you choose and whom you hope respect you as a peer, or like you enough to lie. burgess? solo practioner whose only claim to fame is the stance against hawaiians. grant? cali atty, not hawaii atty.

[Keanu]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Huh? Reminder, SCOTUS trumps 9th Circuit.

You are correct that a challenger using the same arguments would surely lose in Honolulu and (on appeal) at the 9th Circuit, but if the next challenger does not agree to a settlement and his or her appeal made it to SCOTUS, then there is "chance." KS has dodged a bullet---this time.

Thanks for the reminder but it was unnecessary. The 9th Circuit's decision is still the law of the land.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Poppycock! That "high profile" attorney would have to find another cause of action. I doubt any lawyer would be willing to bring an identical action to a U.S. District Court considering the Distrcit Court is obliged to follow the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals decision regarding the validity of Kamehameha's admissions policy under 42 USC 1981, and any appeal would go to the body that vindicated the School.

Huh? Reminder, SCOTUS trumps 9th Circuit.
You are correct that a challenger using the same arguments would surely lose in Honolulu and (on appeal) at the 9th Circuit, but if the next challenger does not agree to a settlement and his or her appeal made it to SCOTUS, then there is "chance." KS has dodged a bullet---this time.

Keanu's got the more likely scenario here. Since the 9th Circuit has made a ruling which now stands as the highest ruling at present, all lower courts will consider that ruling as the one to which they must refer; it sets the precedent. Since this particular case has been settled, SCOTUS will not address it.

Anyone else who wants to battle on this turf has to find new arguments that were not addressed by this case, or they will likely be dismissed, since the issues of this case have already been ruled upon. A Circuit Court of Appeals ruling is second only in stature to one issued by the Supreme Court. A new plaintiff would have to build a new case upon issues not already considered, and it would have to survive a battle all the way past the 9th Circuit once again (as long as Hawai`i remains in the jurisdiction of that court); the likelihood of the 9th Circuit Court reversing their own ruling is mighty slim.

I would probably think it was more than that...maybe the equivalent of a full-ride scholarship for however long it takes him to get his bachelor's at the school of his choice. What college student would turn that down? Speculation, of course, but hey...

I'd be surprised if Doe's attorneys didn't push for something like that to stand down, considering they've been fighting tooth and nail up to this point.

Certainly possible - anything could be in the settlement, of course, and it's not likely that we'll ever find out. At this point, yeah - it's only about the money, as far as plaintiff is concerned, I am sure. As you said, speculation - it's all we have, regarding the settlement.

[poinographer]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Well, if SCOTUS had denied certiorari, then I would agree. That's not what happened, though.

You guys are certainly welcome to believe whatever you like, but the fact that Doe settled at the last second in no way suggests to me that no other plaintiff will be found to slog through inevitable losses and appeals and to again seek certiorari at SCOTUS. The 9th circuit ruling in KS' favor was razor thin, and a hearing before SCOTUS under Roberts' gavel is not going to be a friendly venue.

If the next plaintiff is a more ideologically-motivated plaintiff, he or she won't settle before SCOTUS hears/rules on the case. KS got lucky this time in that Doe saw dollar signs and blinked.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Well, if SCOTUS had denied certiorari, then I would agree. That's not what happened, though.

Of course not, Doug, the request was neither denied nor accepted - the writ was withdrawn by plaintiff upon settlement. But that does not negate that lower courts will still be expected to take the 9th Circuit's ruling as precedent.

[Keanu]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Well, if SCOTUS had denied certiorari, then I would agree. That's not what happened, though.

You guys are certainly welcome to believe whatever you like, but the fact that Doe settled at the last second in no way suggests to me that no other plaintiff will be found to slog through inevitable losses and appeals and to again seek certiorari at SCOTUS. The 9th circuit ruling in KS' favor was razor thin, and a hearing before SCOTUS under Roberts' gavel is not going to be a friendly venue.

If the next plaintiff is a more ideologically-motivated plaintiff, he or she won't settle before SCOTUS hears/rules on the case. KS got lucky this time in that Doe saw dollar signs and blinked.

If Goemans and Burgess want to expend their efforts in seeking another plaintiff to continue their personal vendetta against the Kamehameha Schools, that's their problem; It's a losing battle as far as I'm concerned.

I disagree with your thoughts that Kamehameha got lucky...John Doe was in it for the money from the beginning.

I wouldn't be too cynical about Cheif Justice Roberts, as a private attorney he argued the State's case in Rice vs. Cayetano. He may be conservative and at times a Scalia clone but he has an understanding of Hawaiian issues.

[TuNnL]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

I wouldn't be too cynical about Cheif Justice Roberts, as a private attorney he argued the State's case in Rice vs. Cayetano. He may be conservative and at times a Scalia clone but he has an understanding of Hawaiian issues.

This is the reason I wanted to see the case go all the way to SCOTUS. Not to be cruel or hard-hearted, but in the spirit of Ed Case, Sen. Akaka isn’t getting any younger, and I think his legacy bill dies with him.

[waioli kai]

E. E. Case'$ Hawaiianes$ Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

This is the reason I wanted to see the case go all the way to SCOTUS. Not to be cruel or hard-hearted, but in the spirit of Ed Case, Sen. Akaka isn’t getting any younger, and I think his legacy bill dies with him.

Well do you accept that your CASE did not win and may never again in either Hawai`i (FOR SURE!) in Hawaii (almost certainly!!) win a public election again? If you love Case you should encourage him to move to some other state where his Hawaiianes$ might pull a larger electorate.

[poinographer]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

I disagree with your thoughts that Kamehameha got lucky...John Doe was in it for the money from the beginning.

I wouldn't be too cynical about Cheif Justice Roberts, as a private attorney he argued the State's case in Rice vs. Cayetano. He may be conservative and at times a Scalia clone but he has an understanding of Hawaiian issues.

Well, apparently I'm not the only one cynical about Roberts and his colleagues. KS lawyers are, too...

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

I would love to run this poll:

Which is the best course for Kamehameha Schools in complying with the Will™ in this Y2K world?

a) Set a reasonable percentage of enrolling students who are orphaned and indigent, regardless of ethnic ancestry (e.g. highly functioning foster kids in permanency who could use some identity grounding and social development that Hawaiian culture and education provides). For years KS capped the "O/I" pool at 15% amongst Hawaiian children; why not the same amount for Hawai'i's foster kids? 85% of kanaka kids is still defining "giving preference".

b) **** em; Hawaiian only!

[TuNnL]

Re: E. E. Case'$ Hawaiianes$ Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Well do you accept that your CASE did not win and may never again in either Hawai`i (FOR SURE!) in Hawaii (almost certainly!!) win a public election again? If you love Case you should encourage him to move to some other state where his Hawaiianes$ might pull a larger electorate.

You missed my entire point, waioli kai. I brought up Ed Case, because he made an important point about Akaka’s age. IMHO, his bill will not pass until we get a Dem in the Oval Office. In the mean time, any and all native Hawaiian rights cases (including KSBE) should be decided by SCOTUS so that there isn’t a “cloud of controversy” overhead. It clarifies the issues so that all parties involved know where they stand.

[1stwahine]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

But I'll answer what waioli kai said regarding CASE!

He's not outta Politics and he'll WIN...in time.

In time!!!

Auntie Lynn

[D'Alani]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

I would love to run this poll:

Which is the best course for Kamehameha Schools in complying with the Will™ in this Y2K world?

a) Set a reasonable percentage of enrolling students who are orphaned and indigent, regardless of ethnic ancestry (e.g. highly functioning foster kids in permanency who could use some identity grounding and social development that Hawaiian culture and education provides). For years KS capped the "O/I" pool at 15% amongst Hawaiian children; why not the same amount for Hawai'i's foster kids? 85% of kanaka kids is still defining "giving preference".

b) **** em; Hawaiian only!

I would go with a and reverse it so the cap for the O/I, and giving preference to... would be 85%.

[John Maple]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

I would love to run this poll:

Which is the best course for Kamehameha Schools in complying with the Will™ in this Y2K world?

a) Set a reasonable percentage of enrolling students who are orphaned and indigent, regardless of ethnic ancestry (e.g. highly functioning foster kids in permanency who could use some identity grounding and social development that Hawaiian culture and education provides). For years KS capped the "O/I" pool at 15% amongst Hawaiian children; why not the same amount for Hawai'i's foster kids? 85% of kanaka kids is still defining "giving preference".

b) **** em; Hawaiian only!

c) Neither. Continue their current policy.