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Thread: Hawaiian language project at unilang.org

  1. #1

    Default Hawaiian language project at unilang.org

    This is just an announcement that I'm currently working on the Hawaiian language section of the wiki area at unilang.org. I'm going to post as much as I can there while I still have free time. I've already finished 6 articles there, the most thorough and edited ones being "Hawaiian Imperatives" and "Hawaiian Determiners and Making Nouns Plural;" and the next most thorough being "Hawaiian Time Aspect Markers." However, when talking about making nouns plural, I haven't mentioned using postposed k-less possessives for this function, since I'm not sure how much it's used when not preceded by the vocative "E" or by prepositions, although I have seen it used in equational sentences.

    I'm going to finish the article on "Hawaiian Cardinal and Ordinal Numbers," and I'm debating whether or not I'll introduce the numeral prefixes pā-, ko'oko'o-, and kua-, and if I'll introduce the old counting system by fours. When I finish the article on numerals, then I'll try to figure out a plan for how I'm going to organize and introduce other topics, rather than typing out whatever subject comes to my head as I have been doing.

    Over the past year, I have documented a number of sentence patterns from Hawaiian literature, new and old, mostly little things though. I'm going to look them over again and, perhaps, if the Hawaiian language class I'm planning on taking isn't cancelled in Fall, I'll run my data by the professor.

    The link to the Hawaiian language page is here below.

    http://home.unilang.org/wiki3/index.php/Hawaiian
    Last edited by 'i'iwipolena; July 20th, 2006 at 12:29 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Hawaiian language project at unilang.org

    E 'I'iwipolena e,

    You have mentioned before that you have only one year of O.H. instruction under your belt. Kako'o piha for your enthusiasm aside, do you consider yourself qualified to be writing a wiki on this? Do you plan to have someone loihape your work before you submit?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Hawaiian language project at unilang.org

    For the sake of not contaminating the project, my own data that I have collected over the past year has not been entered into the wiki; instead, I merely introduce patterns and notes on patterns that have already been researched by Hawaiian langauge scholars directly from Hawaiian Grammar by Elbert and Pukui, the course materials from Haw 452 Structure of Hawaiian which covers advanced grammar, and the notes from E Kama'ilio Hawai'i Kakou. Meaning, any information that I submit about the Hawaiian language is taken directly from these materials.

    You did bring up a valid point. If you would like to attempt to edit my work, or if you can think of any qualified person who would be interested, I encourage it. That way, I can be sure of the validity of the material.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Hawaiian language project at unilang.org

    I wouldn't consider myself qualified enough to loihape for you. Hawaiian-through-English content has never been my experience of speaking Hawaiian (even my college experience, post-200 level, was Hawaiian-through-Hawaiian, so the linguistics of breaking down stative verbs when I only know them as 'a'ano, is unfamiliar to me). I would pull from those people who wrote their theses on this work.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Hawaiian language project at unilang.org

    Quote Originally Posted by Pua'i Mana'o
    I wouldn't consider myself qualified enough to loihape for you. Hawaiian-through-English content has never been my experience of speaking Hawaiian (even my college experience, post-200 level, was Hawaiian-through-Hawaiian, so the linguistics of breaking down stative verbs when I only know them as 'a'ano, is unfamiliar to me). I would pull from those people who wrote their theses on this work.



    It can be awkward to work through Hawaiian grammar in English if the grammar was initially learned through Hawaiian, as Hawaiian has its own grammatical terms. I'm familiar with some of the basic Hawaiian grammatical terms used today (i.e. ka'i, ka'i nono'a, kikino, kahulu, ka'i hua, kino 'a, kino 'o, i'oa, i'oa mauli, i'oa henua, i'oa paku, hune ki'a, hune kuhi, hune 'iae, hune 'a'au; and the ones used for verbs: hamani, hehele, 'a'ano), but for the most part I've studied them all with the English terms, except for a paper I read dealing with the the Pepeke 'Aike 'O + Ki'a structure. On the wiki, I'm only going to introduce as much as is needed for someone to get a general understanding of the language, just enough so that they will be able to speak basic Hawaiian. I'm not going to discuss extensively the different types of reduplicatons, causative prefixes, qualitative/stative prefixes, the Ř-demonstratives, transivitizing sufffixes, etc... because that would take forever..

    edit: sorry, in my first post I said postposed k-less possessives being used for plural. I meant preposed k-less possessives.
    Last edited by 'i'iwipolena; July 20th, 2006 at 05:15 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Hawaiian language project at unilang.org

    Ho'omaika'i! So glad to hear you're doing this. Well done.

    'Alika
    'Alika

  7. #7

    Default Re: Hawaiian language project at unilang.org

    Quote Originally Posted by akrauth View Post
    Ho'omaika'i! So glad to hear you're doing this. Well done.

    'Alika
    I originally started working on the Hawaiian language articles on the Wiki at Unilang over a year ago in an attempt to improve what had already been written there. For example, when I first got there, a writer stated that Hawaiian had no indefinite article, and in an attempt to describe its VSO syntax, he used the example "I have the book" from English, and believed that it would be rendered "Have I the book" in Hawaiian, although he did not give an example of the Hawaiian sentence. So, if we were to follow this idea, the subject of the sentence would be au (first person singular), and the object would be ka puke (the book). It would end up looking like this:

    *Loa'a au i ka puke.

    But this would be incorrect. What this sentence would mean is "The book has me." That is because in the sentence pattern used with loa'a, what is in the nominative case is what is "gotten", and what is in the oblique case is what ends up "getting" what is in the nominative case. For example, "I have the book" would be translted as:

    Loa'a ia'u ka puke/ Loa'a ka puke ia'u

    I've even heard of it being explained as "The book is gotten to me," and although I'm unsure of whether or not this is good English, it helps to understand how the sentence pattern works.

    The articles I wrote at the Wiki site of Unilang aren't perfect, but it is an improvement over what was there. I am going to revise them when I have more time. But my ultimate hope is that it attracts the attention of others who would be willing to improve them even more.
    I ka wā i laulaha ai ka ‘apa‘apa, he hana ho‘āuhuli ka ‘ōlelo ‘ana me ka ‘oia‘i‘o.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Hawaiian language project at unilang.org

    Quote Originally Posted by 'i'iwipolena View Post
    The articles I wrote at the Wiki site of Unilang aren't perfect, but it is an improvement over what was there. I am going to revise them when I have more time. But my ultimate hope is that it attracts the attention of others who would be willing to improve them even more.

    And I'm sure that will happen soon enough. Pomaika'i!
    Oh yeah, did you get my PM? Let's practice!
    'Alika

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Hawaiian language project at unilang.org

    Pomaika'i on this project!
    Aloha Kakou, maluhia a me aloha mau loa (Hello everyone, peace and love forever)

  10. #10

    Default Re: Hawaiian language project at unilang.org

    Kia Ora koe e te tama,

    I believe your ability at the Hawai'ian language and the hunger that you have displayed in devouring a Hawai'ian text or a grammar about Hawai'ian language has helped your fluency jump in leaps and bounds. The article that you showed me about the misuses of the language by second language users and your determination to perfect your Hawai'ian to native speaker level ought to be applauded.

    As for explaining Loa'a ia'u ka puke I hope you or Pua'i Mana'o don't mind if I interject and offer some insight...

    Given that loa'a is a stative verb, the 'i' is usually translated as 'by'. So, the book was taken by me (and yes I am aware that there are many words for 'to take' in any Polynesian language and they all have their own nuance; you can rarely reflect that in English which for the most part uses one word, and one only).

    In the difference between English 'take' and Hawai'ian 'loa'a', 'take' is not a stative verb, its transitive, while loa'a is not. So by necessity you will have to translate it literally (the book was taken by me) and then explain the differences in properties between the two verbs.

    This problem is not unique to Hawai'ian, it happens in Maori too.

    Hope this helps you my good friend.

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