Biofuels & Energy Independence

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Just as long as we balance the equation by calculating the environmental impact of manufacturing photovoltaic panels and the batteries needed to store the energy on a large scale.

Besides, I suspect the cost of clearing more land is a one-time fixed cost rather then an ongoing variable cost.

[MixedPlateBroker]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

The BlueEarth plan calls for burning imported palm oil, but HECO will contribute all of its half of the profits to a nonprofit public trust that will encourage the growth of local fuel crops. Candidate crops include palm oil, jatropha, kukui or coconut.

But in the second week of December '07 ...

Fuels giant Royal Dutch Shell and HR Biopetroleum on Wednesday announced the creation of a joint venture called Cellana to make biodiesel from algae in Hawaii.
The plans call for growing algae in ponds of seawater using strains of algae that are native to Hawaii. It will be placed near other industrial sites that produce algae for the pharmaceutical and nutrition industries.

Cellana said that algae can produce 15 times more oil per hectare than rape, palm soya, or jatropha plants.
Algae growth also has been proposed as a way to absorb large amounts of carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. The Cellana demonstration facility will use bottled carbon dioxide to explore the technique of capture carbon in plants as they metabolize. Its experiments will include participation from different universities.

source

And wouldn't you know ...

There have been successful projects using the CO2 from smokestacks to speed up the algae growth, adding in the possibility of a carbon credit and increasing yield per acre per year. This presents a great opportunity for the power plants because it is taking something with a cost associated with it, CO2 emissions, and turning it into something of value, liquid fuel.
But what makes algae stand out is that it is scaleable. Soy and other first generation biodiesel feedstocks like canola are not scalable, 40 to 60 gallons is all we can squeeze out of an acre of soybeans and there is no sign of that changing. While algae can yield 10,000 gallons of oil per acre and scientists are selecting for even oilier varieties. This promise of algae changes the biofuel field, instead of just reaching for 5% of the diesel market the way biodieselists are today, with algae biodiesel could be a real player in the 60 billion gallons of diesel we use in the U.S. each year.

source

And here's a story about a NZ company using algae from sewage ponds to produce biodiesel. Clean water is a byproduct of the process.

Those BlueEarth people must have put together a mean Powerpoint.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

So now this from the front: Bio-fuel may add to global warming!

And to think we thought it would help lower our greenhouse gas emisisons. I wonder what else we thought was helpful is going to be our demise.

[MixedPlateBroker]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Ahh, that article only takes aim at land-based crops though. Twas no coincidence that G.W. Bush has been pushing so hard for ethanol. Oil companies are buying up farmland in the cornbelt so they can diversify. It's about $$ and not the envirinment. Business as usual.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Well we are a market-based economy where we glorify the almighty dollar. You cannot have a devalued god right?

[timkona]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Economical, gas sipping, inexpensive vehicles have been available since the Pinto and the Datsun hit the dealerships.

Don't even try to blame big govt, big oil, or big auto. It's consumers who buy what they like, and GW doesn't help you shop for a car.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Ahh, that article only takes aim at land-based crops though. Twas no coincidence that G.W. Bush has been pushing so hard for ethanol. Oil companies are buying up farmland in the cornbelt so they can diversify. It's about $$ and not the envirinment. Business as usual.

More people are becoming aware that corn is an inefficient source of ethanol. It takes more energy to produce than it provides. It's actually a step backward!

http://www.slate.com/id/2122961/

Thermo depolymerization has been demonstrated to have some promise. That's probably the process that turns poultry waste to fuel. It'll turn just about anything else containing carbon to useful byproducts including plastic, paper, even tires. Imagine having this running alongside H-Power.

http://www.changingworldtech.com/what/index.asp

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

I've lived next to a corn field in Idaho for four years and I think what makes corn the commodity of choice is that corn grows easily with little water and is easily harvested. In Idaho the cornfields were grown, then plowed under for a second growth season. The second growth was harvested not for human consumption (although it could have been) but for cattle feed!

So the value of corn is that if the market for produce goes down, the field is plowed under, the farmers get the Federal farm subsidy for growing it, then the replowing enriches the soil for the next growth. Now if the feed market goes down, they can now use their crop for biofuels.

It may not be the best crop of choice but it's subsidized and can be used for other markets making it a good hedge crop when it's primary use is minimized.

[MixedPlateBroker]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Well we are a market-based economy where we glorify the almighty dollar. You cannot have a devalued god right?

Economical, gas sipping, inexpensive vehicles have been available since the Pinto and the Datsun hit the dealerships.

Don't even try to blame big govt, big oil, or big auto. It's consumers who buy what they like, and GW doesn't help you shop for a car.

Capitalism is a beautiful thing when done right. Unfortunately, what G.W. Bush & Co. have been trying to shove down our throats is fascism with a side order of corporatism. The $14 billion in tax breaks and subsidies for oil drillers that Bush tried in vain to keep on the books last year speaks volumes about his deke concern for the environment and our market-based economy.

Giving tax breaks and subsidies to an industry that's been raking in record profits not only provides an economic disincentive to Big Oil to explore and develop alternative energy sources, but it also introduces artificial downward pressure on oil prices. It doesn't require a degree in economics to see that keeping gasoline prices artificially "low" discourages alternative energy startups from entering the market and gaining a foothold. Ya think if we had to pay nearly $10/gallon for gas like they do in England that diesel vehicles and biodiesel filling stations would be as common as ... they are in England?

Pintos and Datsuns? Give me break. What kind of choice is a small, fuel-efficient car that runs on gasoline if I want to buy something that doesn't perpetuate my dependence on foreign oil? But check this for six degrees of separation: 1. Bush gives oil companies tax breaks and subsidies. 2. Oil companies keep price of gas at a level that unsubsidized biodiesel can't match. 3. Auto makers see that demand for diesel models in the U.S. is negligible and don't offer them for sale here. 4. Prospective new auto buyer searches showrooms looking for an affordable car with a diesel engine and finds ... none! Hey, only four degrees. What do you know. Thanks for the help, Dubya.

And by the way, harvesting marine algae instead of land-grown feedstocks to make biodiesel frees up Hawaii ag land for conversion to high density housing. Surely no republicrat worth his salt would be in favor of locking up valuable and limited ag land for growing feedstock meant strictly for oil extraction. That goes against the whole highest and best use idea.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

So hows the weather on Oahu

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Giving tax breaks and subsidies to an industry that's been raking in record profits not only provides an economic disincentive to Big Oil to explore and develop alternative energy sources, but it also introduces artificial downward pressure on oil prices. It doesn't require a degree in economics to see that keeping gasoline prices artificially "low" discourages alternative energy startups from entering the market and gaining a foothold.

Amen to that!

I would also add that corporate interlocking between the auto and petroleum industries led to a situation whereby automakers did not want to invest in the research to develop electric/hybrid cars until only recently. They could have started producing hybrids for commercial sale 20-25 years ago, if R/D had begun in earnest when the Arab oil crisis first hit. But those board of directors who also had interests in oil (or were related to those who did) didn't want to make decisions that would make part of their investment portfolio suffer.

Pintos and Datsuns? Give me break.

Indeed. Picking between one car that had exploding gas tanks and another that had notorious quality-control issues. (Anybody remember the B-210?)

[Composite 2992]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

It may not be the best crop of choice but it's subsidized and can be used for other markets making it a good hedge crop when it's primary use is minimized.

Ironically, because it takes more energy to produce ethanol with corn it increases our oil dependency, even if it means making use of an otherwise wasted crop. We would be better off not even growing the corn and just using the oil...

... unless the entire plant can be used. In which case there are other options such as switchgrass which is far more efficient. Sugar cane might also be a good option.

[timkona]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

This Republicrat gets 40 mpg in a Corolla. Thank you very much. Ironically, I didn't buy it for the environment nearly as much as I bought it to promote the war effort by limiting my gas consumption. LOL

Prolly should have gotten a smoky old Volvo with 22 mpg and a peace sticker.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Amen to that!

I would also add that corporate interlocking between the auto and petroleum industries led to a situation whereby automakers did not want to invest in the research to develop electric/hybrid cars until only recently. They could have started producing hybrids for commercial sale 20-25 years ago, if R/D had begun in earnest when the Arab oil crisis first hit. But those board of directors who also had interests in oil (or were related to those who did) didn't want to make decisions that would make part of their investment portfolio suffer.

amen to your amen! i can't find my original post, but some time ago, i wrote about a movie called, "who killed the electric car":

This film chronicles the rise and fall of the General Motors EV1, an electric car I leased on the day it was released in 1996. Zero to 60 mph in 7.4 seconds, a top speed of 140 mph and a range of 120 miles. GM discontinued this car just a few years later. No car company today makes a mass-production electric vehicle.

...

But did car companies really want electric cars to succeed? The success of electric vehicles would have threatened the status quo and core business models of two of the world's biggest industries -- oil and automobile. It is more expedient for these companies to give lip service to hydrogen in an attempt to appear "green." But hydrogen is a technology that experts say is decades away.

Because the small print in California's mandate allowed for car companies to manufacture only as many cars as there was interest in them, the game became to pretend there was no interest. Virtually no advertising money was spent to let you know electric cars existed, and even if you did find out about them salespeople actively dissuaded you from getting one.

it rather amuses me that mr. watanabe (whom i respect) and timkona (...) were reduced to making irrelevant responses after eric's rather salient post.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

And here's another irrelavent response...so how's the weather on Oahu!

The only good thing I can say about BioDiesel is that when you follow an old Mercedes running on vegetable oil, I get real hungry smelling that exhaust. Smells like a lunch wagon with a special on Roast Pork. And I'm glad I amused you...life is too short to be pissed off.

BTW...When I read that post you mentioned, it did sound more like...hmmm...like you wrote it...hmmm...

Okay now back to your normally scheduled relavent topic