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Thread: Rail Transit

  1. #1151

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
    This taken in San Jose California... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkjpDBHbKYU

    That's actually Fruitvale, San Jose is about 40 miles south.

    I fail to see how this comparison validates any point on potential noise for HART considering BART is a 10 car train (ie what is the noise level of one car passing a freeway underpass at 55MPH vs 10 passing in a group or how about a couple of Harleys), and BART is also 40 year old tech.

    How about at least presenting a train model produced in the 21st century (2006) if wanting to point out noise levels of 10 car trains?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPeUc...eature=related

  2. #1152

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Maybe they'll use that famous steel that doesn't rust!

  3. #1153
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    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Or get so hot it begins to melt and collapse to the ground like WTC when at 10 stories high, it could get hit by a hijacked airliner, lmbo.

  4. #1154
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    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Ah, the lovely sound of BART - I remember it well. I liked BART because I could easily take my bike and avoid connecting buses, 'fore and aft' the ride. The heavier standard rail system on the peninsula was less bike friendly, but also less noisy and smoother riding.

    I'm against rail for Oahu - it makes no sense, as the bus fulfills our needs entirely and can adapt to changes in technology and demographics with utter ease via scheduling/routing changes and vehicle modernization. Why chain ourselves to a single supplier of an expensive-to-alter system which will be almost entirely dependent upon our existing adaptable bus (and road) system fore, aft and abeam?
    Last edited by salmoned; November 5th, 2011 at 08:07 PM.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  5. #1155
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    Thumbs up Re: Rail Transit

    And I concur Salmoned!
    Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

  6. #1156
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    Default Re: Rail Transit

    The Star-Advertiser's online poll today was this one, and closed at 4pm with these numbers:


    What do you think about the city signing the $1.4 billion rail contract with Ansaldo Honolulu JV?

    Bad move (69%, 830 Votes)

    OK but nervous (16%, 196 Votes)

    Good, long overdue (15%, 175 Votes)

    Total Voters: 1,201
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  7. #1157

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Just another broken spoke in a wheel that will go nowhere.

  8. #1158
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    Post Re: Rail Transit

    From Councilman Tom Berg:
    "We have reserved the Mission Memorial Auditorium next to Honolulu Hale to be the site for the big showdown that is to feature pro and con rail enthusiasts sitting side-by-side to go head-to -head for Questions & Answers with the public in attendance.

    Panelists thus far confirmed are UH Professor of Civil Engineering Dr. Panos Prevedouros, State Senator Sam Slom, Scott Foster with the architects promoting light rail, Dennis Callan with Hawaii Geographic Society, Gig Greenwood favoring Monorail, and Frank Genadio favoring Urban Magnetic Levitation. Invites to Mayor Carlisle, Go-Rail-Go, HART interim director Toru Hamayasu, and numerous elected officials who favor the General Excise Tax increases to fund rail - such as Representatives Kym Pine, Sharon Har, and Rida Cabanilla, as well as State Senators Mike Gabbard and Will Espero have all declined. Governor Ben Cayetano and Department of Transportation Services Director Wayne Yoshioka were also invited but have not confirmed yet whether they will attend.

    The meeting will be recorded by Olelo Community Television and will start at 6:00 p.m. and end at 8:30 p.m.

    IN CLOSING, whether you are for this steel rail project or clamoring for something else, your participation and voices should be heard. My online survey reflects that some 75% do not want to embark on this rail until we fix the sewers, the roads, and water mains. That is why I am holding this meeting - for all of us to get behind a solution we can be proud of and willing to sustain with our hard earned dollars.

    MISSION MEMORIAL AUDITORIUM
    6:00-8:30 P.M.
    DECEMBER 6, 2011

    Parking available at the Civic Center Parking Garage. Enter from S. Beretania Street, street level parking. Parking is free after 4:00 p.m. except for the reserved stalls.


    http://www.councilmanberg.com/html_p...st_120211.html

    A YouTube video of Dr. Panos Prevedouros: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLbtY...eature=related

    So whether you are for or against the present plan for rail on Oahu, come and see for yourself what's really up. Ask questions...
    Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

  9. #1159
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    Default Re: Rail Transit

    I'm not the biggest fan of The Outdoor Circle... but...

    Transit Project Too Destructive-TOC Board Examines Options

    In our 100 year history The Outdoor Circle (TOC) has seen no other venture that holds the potential to degrade the landscape of Oahu as the proposed Honolulu Rail Transit project. TOC has been involved in virtually every step of the project from the moment it was first brought to the public for discussion. For more than five years, at every opportunity, we have urged the City to explain how it will mitigate Transit’s horrific visual damage to this island as well as the degradation to neighborhoods and communities along the route of this six billion dollar project.

    The Outdoor Circle favors and will support an alternatively sound transit proposal but only one that includes elements that will reduce traffic and protect Hawaii’s greatest asset, the unique and incomparable beauty of our islands. But with no satisfactory alternatives forthcoming The Outdoor Circle has concluded that it cannot and does not support the project as proposed and we now are exploring all available options to determine the most feasible and effective actions we might take to stop it.
    Read more at this link:

    http://www.outdoorcircle.org/blog/de...amines-options
    I'm still here. Are you?

  10. #1160

    Default Trees, who needs trees?

    It's about time this topic was brought up, just another of the many good reasons for no rail boondogle.

  11. #1161

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Yeah, rail, as it's currently planned will be a turning point in Hawaii's history. Sort of like the first high-rise in Waikiki. Once it happens, we can not go back. The Hawaii we knew will be permanently altered.

    There has been rail in Hawaii's past. One station still survives near A'ala park. But this one being above ground is too visible. Too mainland-ish.

  12. #1162

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    The tunnels beneath Moiliili are indeed real.
    The ancient aquifer was breached in the placing of the backbones of the current Waikiki skyscrapers.

  13. #1163
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    Post Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by lensperson View Post
    1)The tunnels beneath Moiliili are indeed real.
    2)The ancient aquifer was breached in the placing of the backbones of the current Waikiki skyscrapers.
    1) Yes the Moi'ili'ili Karst is real. http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF...3-Halliday.pdf
    2) But it doesn't go as far as Waikiki. Waikiki was wetland that the Ala Wai Canal was built to drain enough to build. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ala_Wai_Canal

    now back to our scheduled programming... "Rail do we want it?"
    Last edited by Menehune Man; December 6th, 2011 at 09:33 AM. Reason: fix da grammar li'dat
    Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

  14. #1164
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    Default Re: Rail Transit

    How about,"Rail, ugh, what is it good for - municipal bankruptcy!"
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  15. #1165
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    Post Re: Rail Transit

    KAPOLEI HALE; FEBRUARY 28, 2012: PROFESSOR RANDALL ROTH GAVE A (24-MINUTE) PRESENTATION ON THE RAIL PROJECT FOR HONOLULU.

    Part One

    Part Two

    Part Three
    Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

  16. #1166

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    The contractors business connections should be looked at very closely.
    A large public works project like this should not be rammed into place
    without careful scrutiny.
    Honolulu is neither Vegas nor Disneyland .

  17. #1167
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    Post Re: Rail Transit

    I believe everyone should watch both parts if at all possible!
    Then see if RAIL really makes sense for Oahu.


    The town hall meeting on - RAIL: Sustainable Growth - that was held on February 29, 2012 at the Mission Memorial Auditorium was recorded for television and will playback for viewing starting tomorrow. The presenters at the forum featured facts, truths, and reality checks about the rail project the City does not want you to know about.

    Rail Sustainable Growth
    Here are the airdates from Olelo:

    Rail Sustainable Growth: Part 1
    04/05/2012 - 8:00 AM - FOCUS 49
    04/09/2012 - 1:30 PM - FOCUS 49
    04/10/2012 - 8:00 PM - VIEWS 54
    04/27/2012 - 4:00 PM - VIEWS 54

    Rail Sustainable Growth: Part 2
    04/05/2012 - 10:00 AM - FOCUS 49
    04/10/2012 - 12:00 PM - FOCUS 49
    04/12/2012 - 8:30 PM - VIEWS 54
    04/29/2012 - 12:30 PM - VIEWS 54
    Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

  18. #1168

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    The 2 pro-rail admins. have conducted policies of obfuscation and distortion, relying heavily on the public's frustrations, bias, ignorance, and unwillingness to know the facts.

  19. #1169
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    Post Re: Rail Transit

    Took this 4/18 at the Occupy Honolulu spot. Totally agree with the absurdity of the idea!


    And a small Flickr set
    Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

  20. #1170
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    Post Re: Rail Transit

    RAIL CAN BE STOPPED THIS WEDNESDAY!
    http://www4.honolulu.gov/docushare/d...l%20Agenda.htm

    Two days from now, you can count on Tom Berg's no vote to Bills 31, 32, 33, and now add Bill 37 to the mix for the following reason...

    The financial plan for rail is not sound.

    The voters in 2008 did not vote for a rail scheme that borrows, fronts, credits, and takes from other necessities to thrive.

    Unfortunately, No one else on the City Council will come forward and help Tom Berg defeat Bills 31, 32, 33, and 37. Representative Kymberly Pine and Sharon Har are the most outspoken in favor of rail with Senator Will Espero and support the tax increases to keep rail going no matter how harmful to the taxpayer the financial plan for rail has become.

    It will cost on average, just to construct the rail as being marketed to us, not factoring in operations and maintenance costs, roughly $27,000.00 in additional taxes paid per family of four above and beyond all other taxes being levied on Oahu.

    So what do you think of this? My opinion? WTF!
    Last edited by Menehune Man; April 23rd, 2012 at 10:50 PM.
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  21. #1171
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    Exclamation Re: Rail Transit

    From City Council member Tom Berg...
    "The rail tax is blind to the poor and their plight and the economically challenged in general. They pay the rail tax when they buy bread, buy medicine- and cannot escape the regressive tax no matter how much they save or what they must consume to live.

    All of us have paid dearly for attorneys to defend Ansaldo to charge us over $241 million more than necessary to build the rail cars in California; almost $2 million to defend an inadequate and flawed Environmental Impact Statement; and more monies to defend the right to plow over, under, and right through known iwi/burial sites before we know what is at stake; forked over $15 million to just one contractor - wasted on a contract awarded before it could be legally executed; threw away good for bad on over $30 million in change orders thus far tallied; and then after the public school teachers took a pay cut, furloughs took rise, and now there is no money to even fund school buses anymore, HART turns around and awards an outrageous salary for one person alone to run the train at $322k a year . . .

    In my analysis, the financial plan for rail has more than run afoul, run amok, but is reckless at best. Yet, that won't stop Council District One constituents like Alex Santiago who stated on television at my town hall meeting-

    "The concerns of the costs and the concerns that we cannot afford this really needs to be answered with 'we cannot afford not to do this at this point.'" Click here to see the actual broadcast.

    Yes, that is what pro-railers are saying - that, "We cannot afford not to do this." Tell that to the hundreds living in shelters, the families evicted from Kea`au Beach park last week, or the school kids who could be riding city buses that we do not have room for, money for, and bus routes possibly being cut. Tell that to the family paying 70% more in their water bill, the billions needed for sewer repairs, the roads falling apart, need I say more? We charge now to camp at city parks, and maybe installing parking meters at parks or charging end users just to use a park are coming next. Don't believe me? Check out Bill 60 on the agenda.

    There are many other mechanisms available to us that we could deploy that are superior on all fronts to rail that stand to resolve our traffic congestion crisis and do not involve massive tax increases. More buses with its front door service beats rail hands down just for beginners.

    If I am to take heed to constituents like Alex Santiago, Kymberly Pine, Sharon Har and Will Espero who want this rail plan to advance at all costs, I would vote yes this Wednesday if I thought their positions were reflective of the majority.

    In contrast, in my own door-to-door conversations, my own survey results, at my own town hall meetings, through my attendance at neighborhood board meetings, and run-ins with constituents at the stores, in addition to every poll of late by media outlets, the vast majority have conveyed that they want this rail to stop. The ones who want this rail, are getting donations to support it, or making something off of it, or actually think people who drive now will forfeit their cars to stand in a rail car. The old belief that "Others will ride it so there will be more room for me on the roads" theory is too, out there fueling the fallacies of rail.

    The vote in 2008 was a bait and switch, a loss leader to sell us something that could not be executed as pitched and sold. We were had. The people want out, want another vote, a chance to swim instead of sink.

    Please come testify this Wednesday at 2pm at Kapolei Hale and let the City Council hear what you have to say. The paid, pro-rail union leaders will be there in force advocating rail must be funded. Do you agree with that?

    Rail has gone bad and it is my duty to stop the madness."

    http://www.councilmanberg.com/

    Another 'What do you think?' Come on folks! Can't you see the multiple problems?
    Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

  22. #1172

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    The fix is in as deep as the first pyle they're about to drive.

  23. #1173

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
    ......
    It will cost on average, just to construct the rail as being marketed to us, not factoring in operations and maintenance costs, roughly $27,000.00 in additional taxes paid per family of four above and beyond all other taxes being levied on Oahu. .....

    Based on?

    Has anyone here ever looked into how much money goes into roads at the federal and state level? Just wondering if people have objectively looked into it.

  24. #1174
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    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Go ahead, look into it and report back, jt. But first, compare apples to apples and look into the city and county spending on roads (this is a city and county project) and consider the fact that all that spending requirement will not decrease one iota due to rail, since rail does nothing to decrease the need for any road. In fact, rail will be entirely dependent on those roads to deliver passengers.

    Maybe you believe that state and federal spending requirements on roads will be diminished by rail construction. Well, people believe all sorts of things - who am I to dispel [or bother with] your fantasies? It's not roads that will be affected by rail, it's bus service. Bus from home to rail, rail, bus to work, then back again. Or, drive from home to rail, rail, bus to work. Any way you slice it, for most people it will include at least 2 legs of road travel for each trip. We'll still need all those roads, buses and drivers (and even more if rail successfully induces many drivers to switch to rail/bus).

    I think we all know the bulk of rail passengers will be comprised of current bus riders, tourists and retirees.
    Last edited by salmoned; April 24th, 2012 at 11:30 AM.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  25. #1175

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    Go ahead, look into it and report back, jt. But first, compare apples to apples and look into the city and county spending on roads (this is a city and county project) and consider the fact that all that spending requirement will not decrease one iota due to rail, since rail does nothing to decrease the need for any road. In fact, rail will be entirely dependent on those roads to deliver passengers.

    Maybe you believe that state and federal spending requirements on roads will be diminished by rail construction. Well, people believe all sorts of things - who am I to dispel [or bother with] your fantasies? It's not roads that will be affected by rail, it's bus service. Bus from home to rail, rail, bus to work, then back again. Or, drive from home to rail, rail, bus to work. Any way you slice it, for most people it will include at least 2 legs of road travel for each trip. We'll still need all those roads, buses and drivers (and even more if rail successfully induces many drivers to switch to rail/bus).

    I think we all know the bulk of rail passengers will be comprised of current bus riders, tourists and retirees.
    Why just only at the city and county level for road funding? Do the city roads work the way they should without connecting to roads funded by state and fed funds? Even the rail project, while it is a city project, gets funding from the feds. I question the cost per family of four because more often than not, that cost leaves out the fed contribution and leaves out the tourist contribution. Some anti-rail numbers throw in the op cost of The Bus and The Handivan into the rail cost which is stacking the numbers.

    I ask whoever reads these comments to think about the cost of roads because that is a very real cost that should be objectively compared. For the last several years, the federal highway account has been in the red and billions were transferred from the general fund to help it out. I never said rail will replace existing roads but I do believe we should strive to limit building any more new roads if current road funding won't even support maintenance of existing. You don't need to dispel my fantasies nor I of yours. Your tolerance for how many legs in a trip is strictly your tolerance. Even if all rail ridership is supposedly just current bus riders, tourists, and retirees, that's still better because rail op has a 40% farebox recovery vs 27% on the bus.

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