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  • Re: Rail Transit

    Originally posted by helen View Post
    With out knowning how many people a car can hold it will tough to say, however my 2 cents in the matter is the amount of time you have to wait until the next train shows up. If it's once a half hour, I don't think that is acceptable. Somewhere between 5 to 10 minutes between trains is acceptable to me.
    The AA is proposing the following schedule.

    4AM - 6AM: 6 min
    6AM - 9AM: 3 min
    9AM - 3PM: 6 min
    3PM - 6PM: 3 min
    6PM - 8PM: 6 min
    8PM - 12AM: 10 min

    I think the Siemens S70/Avanto would work well. Seats around 76 and has about 200 capacity including standing. Top speed 55MPH. Used by San Diego, Portland, and Houston.

    http://www.thebergennetwork.com/rail...sdmts/3003.jpg

    A comparable one is built by Kinkisharyo of Japan. Seattle's latest light rail uses it.

    http://www.soundtransit.org/Document...hicleSpecs.pdf

    Comment


    • Re: Rail Transit

      Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
      The AA is proposing the following schedule.
      Can you please explain who or what AA is or what it stands for?

      Comment


      • Re: Rail Transit

        Originally posted by helen View Post
        Can you please explain who or what AA is or what it stands for?
        Alternative Analysis, it's the City Administration's report generated by paying consultant Parson Brinckerhoff. If you are interested in reading up on the rail proposal, it's available for download at the link below. It's over 100 pages total.

        www.honolulutransit.com

        This is what they used to debate in the city council before voting on the fixed guideway.

        Comment


        • Re: Rail Transit

          Originally posted by Kalihiboy View Post
          Excuse me, "rail will only serve the "LIMITED" population along its corridor"!! So your telling me the population between Kapolei and Manoa is a limited population, is that not the majority of where the people live and work on this island??? What do you expect the rail to go from Haleiwa to the BYU-Hawaii campus or something??
          You misunderstand. When I say limited, I mean that most people who will not be living, working, and shopping within walking distance of a rail station WILL continue to choose to own and drive a car. It is not democratic to force the perhaps 92% majority population of car owners to bear the brunt of financing a project that will only benefit a perhaps 8% minority population of rail users and I'm being kind with that opiniated projection). Since most people between Kapolei and Manoa will not be living and working within walking distance of a rail station, they will continue to drive a car. Most people who can afford to own a car are not going to choose to ride a bus to the rail station when they can drive all the way where they want to go.
          Your forgetting that traffic jams occur within, in and around tunnels, not to mention the on and off-ramps. Yet you balk at a rail transit that NEVER will have a traffic jam of any sort??
          You're exaggerating. Of course I know there will be traffic jams. But the jams will be alleviated and mitigated by having new alternate routes. As someone who has used mass transit in other cities, I can tell you now that its often faster to drive where you want to go, even with insane traffic congestion.
          Again I cannot wait to wave at all of the cars below me stuck in gridlock while I whiz by going from my Destination A to Destination B. Have fun Mel and Mapen!!
          That's fine by me if I don't have to pay for it. Owning a car is really not bad, I highly recommend it, even with the traffic jams we have. The money should be used to help the most people.

          Comment


          • Re: Rail Transit

            Probably this light rail system will be the biggest white elephant in state history. Does anyone think that this thing will get done on time, properly, and within budget. Of course not.

            I can see it now, as they are putting in the foundation and some old bones from somebody from the 1800's are found and they are ethnic Hawaiian. Uh-oh. Dead stop, political and legal issues that drag on for years. Remember when Walmart had this very problem. The difference is that Walmart is a big business, an aggressive business, and big money is at stake. So Walmart refused to loose mountains of money from a long delay over this and just put the bones in box and put it inside a trailer on the property where they sat for a year and construction continued. Don't get me wrong, what they did wasn't very respectful, but I can understand why they did it. Our government on the other hand, you know the wheels will come to a dead stop, and they'll just burn money for years.

            And this is just one issue. What about environmental issues. Labor issues? Land use issues? Visual blight issues? Contract issues? Technical issues?

            Should it ever get done, it will loose money hand over fist, just like everywere else except San Diego. That place has stayed out of the red because people don't like to risk their car in Tijuana.

            Comment


            • Re: Rail Transit

              [QUOTE=mapen;124265]You misunderstand. When I say limited, I mean that most people who will not be living, working, and shopping within walking distance of a rail station WILL continue to choose to own and drive a car. It is not democratic to force the perhaps 92% majority population of car owners to bear the brunt of financing a project that will only benefit a perhaps 8% minority population of rail users and I'm being kind with that opiniated projection). Since most people between Kapolei and Manoa will not be living and working within walking distance of a rail station, they will continue to drive a car. Most people who can afford to own a car are not going to choose to ride a bus to the rail station when they can drive all the way where they want to go.

              I bet you once this rail transit is built you will have ridership in the 15-20%.

              I own a car and will ride this rail transit all over the place and all the people I have talked to will be riding it as well.

              I assume you mean that the people who have to drive their cars to transit centers will opt rather to drive on into work rather than park their cars and get on the train. We'll see what happens when businesses start encouraging their employees to ride the train and arrive on work on time rewarding them for their due efforts and penalize and perhaps even fire the workers who choose to continue to be late to work when there are now other options to arrive to work.

              Mapen wrote: You're exaggerating. Of course I know there will be traffic jams. But the jams will be alleviated and mitigated by having new alternate routes. As someone who has used mass transit in other cities, I can tell you now that its often faster to drive where you want to go, even with insane traffic congestion.

              I was born and raised in Chicago and often were stuck in 2-3 hour traffic jams, in fact my mother rode the train to work for years, the parking was scarce as it is here or too expensive so riding the elevated rail was the faster and better option. I can state in my travels that getting around using those means were much more efficient than riding a gas guzzling car that gets stuck in traffic all the time. And with our population increase it will only get worse.

              Mapen wrote: That's fine by me if I don't have to pay for it. Owning a car is really not bad, I highly recommend it, even with the traffic jams we have. The money should be used to help the most people.

              Don't you pay for medical insurance and only really need it when you get sick, don't you pay for taxes on every item you pay for in the state that goes to an education system you might not use (i.e. private school), upkeep on roads you don't drive on, etc. For the record I own a car, but refuse to drive on this island because I have never seen worse and careless drivers in my entire life and I have lived in 7 states and have been to nearly all 50 states. I ride the Bus when I have to and walk or run places to run errands and such. I will use this transit system as will many others, the bitching and whining around here is ridiculous as others have said you can move to the mainland where there is no rail transit or you can live with the fact this is going to happen and challenge the system that they build this thing on budget and on time. As I have stated before other cities like Phoenix who are currently building rapid transit are showing that this is possible.

              KalihiBoy

              Comment


              • Re: Rail Transit

                Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                Your thought intrigues me because it sounds like you don't believe rail will be a success? Yet you think the real estate around the rail will go up. How is that possible?
                Can't remember what I've said to indicate that. I think you'd have to define "success". Will it meet it's projections? If history is any guide, probably not. Will it have riders? Yes. Will it be worth it's price? Iffy. That's not to say that it won't affect the land prices in the areas it serves. If it's really successful, then it will have considerable impact.


                Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                Build "affordable" housing units. One, you keep the real estate in check. Two, another source of revenue to fund the rail.
                Building affordable housing create revenue for the city? Howzat? If the city doesn't own the land, they have nothing to sell. If they condemn the land and then sell it to developers, they'll have a big fight on their hands. Property taxes will go up only if the value goes up. But that's what you're trying to avoid.

                I'll take this opportunity to interject something else. If you want to explore alternatives to rail, allow private enterprise to compete with TheBus. I believe the term is "subscription taxi". I think the main reason the TheBus isn't more successfully is that too many people have horror stories about riding the bus. Would you rather ride in your own comfy car listening to your own music, or sit on hard seats next to a smelly homeless guy? Let the private companies sell their services. The price will be too high for the riff-raff. Riders can ride in on a upscale bus and read the paper.

                Now if you want rail to be a big success, let the Japanese build it and run it. (Yes, I've ridden on their trains. Very impressive.)

                Comment


                • Re: Rail Transit

                  Originally posted by mel View Post
                  A toll road would only be an option.
                  See that’s just it, Mel. A toll road is not an option. Any engineer will tell you that you can’t build a double-decker freeway on top of Nimitz Highway. The structure is only rated to support one level of traffic. To build another level, you would need to completely revamp the base which would balloon the price to the cost of rail or higher. Then you have to ask if the ground can even support another solid concrete roadway stacked in the same place with cars ripping over it at 50 miles an hour. How long before it sinks into the Pacific Ocean?
                  Originally posted by mel View Post
                  You and I will always disagree on rail and the rail tax. That is a given. But the name calling and sexual references are inexcusable.
                  Pot calling the kettle black! Follow your own advice, Mel don’t be a hypocrite:
                  Originally posted by mel View Post
                  Maybe I might even permanently go away from this major portion of the board as the panty man so wishes.
                  For Pete’s sake, Mel, you’re a moderator. Start acting like one.

                  We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                  — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                  USA TODAY, page 2A
                  11 March 1993

                  Comment


                  • Re: Rail Transit

                    Responded to above post in PM.
                    I'm still here. Are you?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Rail Transit

                      Wha? Is that how a conversation continues in this forum? Bummer.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Rail Transit

                        Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                        Building affordable housing create revenue for the city? Howzat? If the city doesn't own the land, they have nothing to sell. If they condemn the land and then sell it to developers, they'll have a big fight on their hands. Property taxes will go up only if the value goes up. But that's what you're trying to avoid.

                        I'll take this opportunity to interject something else. If you want to explore alternatives to rail, allow private enterprise to compete with TheBus. I believe the term is "subscription taxi". I think the main reason the TheBus isn't more successfully is that too many people have horror stories about riding the bus. Would you rather ride in your own comfy car listening to your own music, or sit on hard seats next to a smelly homeless guy? Let the private companies sell their services. The price will be too high for the riff-raff. Riders can ride in on a upscale bus and read the paper.

                        Now if you want rail to be a big success, let the Japanese build it and run it. (Yes, I've ridden on their trains. Very impressive.)
                        The concept I was suggesting for the housing part is to have the city acquire land around stations, most likely, further out west where there is still land available for acquistion. Then the city acts as the developer, builds out homes and sells them at affordable levels, meaning smaller profit margin. The profit in turn is applied towards the cost of the rail. So you alleviate the housing cost for lower incomed folks, generate additional revenue to fund the rail, and essentially build in a ridership base because the people live right around the station.

                        I would rather choose Hong Kong's MTR corporation if we decided to let someone come in and build it. They are a privatized company that has a successful record of profitably building out rail lines in HK, Shenzen, Guangzhou, and Shanghai.

                        As for private enterprise to compete with The Bus, why not just privatized The Bus?

                        Comment


                        • Re: Rail Transit

                          Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                          As for private enterprise to compete with The Bus, why not just privatized The Bus?
                          The piddly public transportation system on Maui is partly subsidized by the County but Roberts Hawai'i provides the equipment and drivers. As of July this year, the system expanded so that it is providing an alternative for commuters so they can avoid the traffic jams that are all over Maui. The original bus service was used more by tourists.

                          What's kind of cool is that riding the bus is free in some areas (like within Wailuku and Kahului) and the stops appear to be planned so that it is most advantageous for senior citizens to ride the bus (free is a good price to pay when you're on a fixed income ), which is great idea because there are now no supermarkets within downtown Wailuku since Ooka's closed last year (Sack 'N Save is now the closest full supermarket, and it's listed as a stop on the free Wailuku Loop), which is a bummer for senior citizens who don't have cars.

                          I will try using this new system next time I visit Maui because the stops are pretty convenient for me, too.

                          Miulang
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • Re: Rail Transit

                            Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                            As for private enterprise to compete with The Bus, why not just privatized The Bus?
                            The problem with TheBus is that it's public transportation with all the problems and riders that go along with it. My suggestion is to allow private transportation to compete with it. Since it wouldn't be taxpayer subsidized, the price would reflect that, but at the same time it would be designed to attract those who can afford it. I think this would have a better chance of attracting people out of their cars rather then punishing them out of them.

                            Unless rail is able to do something different and get enough middle class to ride it and keep things clean, I think it will suffer the same ridership issues as TheBus.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Rail Transit

                              Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                              The problem with TheBus is that it's public transportation with all the problems and riders that go along with it. My suggestion is to allow private transportation to compete with it. Since it wouldn't be taxpayer subsidized, the price would reflect that, but at the same time it would be designed to attract those who can afford it. I think this would have a better chance of attracting people out of their cars rather then punishing them out of them.

                              Unless rail is able to do something different and get enough middle class to ride it and keep things clean, I think it will suffer the same ridership issues as TheBus.
                              Pacific Business News had a survey for its readers a couple of weeks ago that asked if readers would ride TheBus if it was free. 60% said they would while 32% said they wouldn't. The results are interesting because the demographics of the PBN are such that the people polled are generally business people, not the poor, not the elderly. Would all 60% actually use TheBus if it was free? I don't know. But with a 2:1 margin for a free bus ride, I think that's pretty significant.

                              Miulang
                              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • Re: Rail Transit

                                Originally posted by mel View Post
                                Responded to above post in PM.
                                Originally posted by poinographer View Post
                                Wha? Is that how a conversation continues in this forum? Bummer.
                                I don't believe Mel was responding to "conversation," but rather addressing the flames of the thread - which, as a moderator/participant, I believe he was wise to take to a PM level.

                                There are many here who are conversing, rather than trading insults, and I hope that element will continue - I am intrigued by the exchange of ideas on this topic.

                                Comment

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