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  • Re: Rail Transit

    Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
    Understood. But I'm proposing private buses and you keep harping on publicly owned transit. At no point have I said more cars is the solution.

    At best I've tried to explain why people choose cars so we can think about ways of attracting people out of cars into a more efficient form of transport.

    How likely is that to happen in publicly owned system? I think it's far more likely to happen in a privately owned one that has to compete to survive.

    Why don't you ask the folks that liked Hawaiian Airline's style of assigning seats rather then Aloha's non-reserved style? With reserved seats you don't have to battle for the front of the line to get a seat you want. No "rush the doors" mentality.

    But even with Aloha's system you knew you'd get a seat. That's more then you can say about our existing bus system. By reserving seats ahead of time, you knew you were going to get one and not worry about having to skip buses and be late for work. It's simply a way of managing the number of people who show up expecting rides and taking one less hassle out of the commute.

    Hey, great start. Now, how many cars were projected to use it? If it's more then 248, then it's cheaper then rail's projected cost per car.

    Why are you comparing the entire road system against rail's cost when H1 from end to end covers more then even rail's extended plan?
    With the mention of private buses and also private rail cars in the course of this thread, I lost track. I just knew you were more pro car. I retract my statements though I still don't think the whole upscale public transit will work very well. It's just too much of a logistical nightmare. I think to get people out of cars, just keep watching the gas prices climb. Public transit needs to be kept as simplistic as possible. Anything like a reservations systems runs counter to high frequency, fast service, and reliability. I would look more into providing comfortable seating, wifi, flatscreen tvs for news to entice riders.

    You need to compare the entire road system because the gripe about the cost of rail isn't fair when rail has to be built from scratch. I compare the entire road system because imagine the cost to build that from scratch in today's dollars.

    Comment


    • Re: Rail Transit

      Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
      This has nothing to do with technology. No matter how much technology you pack, it doesn't change the basic fundamental that on a finite sized island, you can't keep increasing the number of cars. It's an issue of scalability, period.
      Yup, but why stop at cars? People, housing, waste, etc. - none of it can keep indefinitely increasing while maintaining our 'quality of life'. So rather than trying [and probably failing] to accommodate continued growth, let's stop it [at least for a decade or two] and see if we can improve what we have before moving on. Or are we on a runaway train already?
      May I always be found beneath your contempt.

      Comment


      • Re: Rail Transit

        Originally posted by salmoned View Post
        Yup, but why stop at cars? People, housing, waste, etc. - none of it can keep indefinitely increasing while maintaining our 'quality of life'. So rather than trying [and probably failing] to accommodate continued growth, let's stop it [at least for a decade or two] and see if we can improve what we have before moving on. Or are we on a runaway train already?
        Since it's not possible to close our borders the few things that will help put a cap on our population is housing and job availability.

        The tough part is as housing availability decreases, prices increase along with demand. That will push out those who live at the economic fringes and create larger social problems such as homelessness.

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        • Re: Rail Transit

          Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
          If you think that quality of planning is only a thing of the past - you've got more faith then I. Is there anything you can point to that shows that today's local city planners are any better?
          it's actually lack of quality planning...and no, i don't think today's planners are necessarily better than the past's. but not doing anything can be devastatingly worse than acting to solve a problem, imperfectly.

          Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
          Funny, I'm having just the opposite experience. And they all fit your criteria.
          i don't question your veracity on that. are you questioning mine?

          small note on charles djou: for all his anti-railing, he's not doing much of anything to help the congestion, and not just politically, but personally as well. many a time, eric and i have seen him driving from the east side in morning traffic by himself in his mini SUV emblazoned with his name on the spare tire cover. what, route numbah one of da mayor's limo not good enuf fo heem? sheesh, carpool at least!
          superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

          "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

          nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

          Comment


          • Re: Rail Transit

            hi this is sansei and i just heard on the Kfve news at 9:00 Pm that the coaltion called stop rail now is they want the people to vote only if they did this and we dont get rail,it'll set us back 16 year's ago when the city council stopped rail and we didnt get it until our good mayor brought it back and we do need it otherwise it'll be possibly another 16- 20 year's that we may need this put on the table again so im hoping the rail we'll get it in this century.

            well thank's for your time

            Comment


            • Re: Rail Transit

              Originally posted by Keanu View Post
              Provided they get the 42,000 plus signatures they need, if this goes on the ballot as a charter question
              Does anyone know how many signatures they have so far? I know the group is targeting people in conservative neighborhoods which will not directly benefit from rail, such as Hawai‘i Kai.

              We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

              — U.S. President Bill Clinton
              USA TODAY, page 2A
              11 March 1993

              Comment


              • Re: Rail Transit

                Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                Does anyone know how many signatures they have so far? I know the group is targeting people in conservative neighborhoods which will not directly benefit from rail, such as Hawai‘i Kai.
                Has 'Hawai'i Kai conservatives' become a bone fide political phrase yet?

                Comment


                • Re: Rail Transit

                  Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                  Since it's not possible to close our borders the few things that will help put a cap on our population is housing and job availability.

                  The tough part is as housing availability decreases, prices increase along with demand. That will push out those who live at the economic fringes and create larger social problems such as homelessness.
                  Huh? There are at least hundreds of routes we could follow to control growth. Here's an idea - let's increase the price of vehicle registration until a stasis is achieved in the number of registered vehicles. If traffic remains too high, we increase the price until it recedes to a desired level.

                  Homelessness is not a social problem, it's a solution to a problem. People choose to be homeless because it's better than the alternatives they face. It would not be difficult to reduce the homeless by making it a less attractive lifestyle.
                  Last edited by salmoned; May 23, 2008, 08:19 AM.
                  May I always be found beneath your contempt.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Rail Transit

                    Originally posted by salmoned View Post
                    People choose to be homeless because it's better than the alternatives they face. It would not be difficult to reduce the homeless by making it a less attractive lifestyle.
                    If you ever had the chance to meet homeless people you'd know better than to post something as insensitive as that. Homelessness isn't a choice, but a situation forced upon many who have no choice.

                    Living under a leaking tarp when the tradewinds turn harsh, and everything getting damp and musty is hardly an attractive option to anything.

                    Give it a try for a few months. Especially in the rainy season with half or less of what you usually eat daily. You'll probably get a much better understanding of what it's really like.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Rail Transit

                      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                      Does anyone know how many signatures they have so far? I know the group is targeting people in conservative neighborhoods which will not directly benefit from rail, such as Hawai‘i Kai.
                      Originally posted by Vanguard View Post
                      Has 'Hawai'i Kai conservatives' become a bone fide political phrase yet?
                      Okay so I got my answer. KGMB9 News says the group has 12,000 signatures so far. Considering it’s been six weeks since they began collecting them, I say it’s highly unlikely they will get the 44,525 signatures the city clerk says they need in time to get the question on the ballot. They will really have to step it up!

                      Hmmmm...talk about disorganized! These anti-rail crusaders should take a page from the anti-Superferry group (particularly the Maui contingent). If they were truly opposed to Rail from the start, they should have began circulating this petition two years ago. Duh.

                      We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                      — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                      USA TODAY, page 2A
                      11 March 1993

                      Comment


                      • Re: Rail Transit

                        hi this is sansei and i know what my eldest sister will say about rail being built here,she know's it'll work since bart aka Bay area rapid transit is working where she live's and she would say that she'd agree with our mayor and that our mayor should stop the stop rail now so that our mayor could build the needed rail so i thought to share this with everyone.

                        well thank's for your time

                        Comment


                        • Re: Rail Transit

                          hi this is sansei and this morning,i spoke to my eldest sister and from what i posted,it's all true of what she said and she said this new stoprail now coalition isnt able to stop our mayor from building the rail and she said here in honolulu,that we need rail is so that the traffic gridlock we wont have and that people from the other side of the island can get a nice ride into town or the airport and other's such as ala moana and so i thought to share this truth with everyone.

                          well thank's for your time

                          Comment


                          • Re: Rail Transit

                            Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                            If you ever had the chance to meet homeless people you'd know better than to post something as insensitive as that. Homelessness isn't a choice, but a situation forced upon many who have no choice.

                            Living under a leaking tarp when the tradewinds turn harsh, and everything getting damp and musty is hardly an attractive option to anything.

                            Give it a try for a few months. Especially in the rainy season with half or less of what you usually eat daily. You'll probably get a much better understanding of what it's really like.
                            If you don't realize homelessness is a choice, you're not really thinking. Who exactly is 'forcing' anyone to be homeless? I certainly wish I could afford those gold chains I see around the necks of the homeless in television interviews.

                            I lived homeless in Alaska for 4 months and it was one of the best times of my life. A friend I made there lived in a motel and hitched to work 20 miles every day (he was a gentleman from Virginia and didn't care for the rustic life of homelessness). Another friend I met on the way up had lived in a teepee for 2 years and couldn't say enough of how wonderful it was, even when he had to dig himself out of an 8 foot snow drift. He had to travel 18 miles to pick up his mail (general delivery at the P.O.) No, I don't need to talk to the homeless here in Hawaii to know how attractive the life can be, and I don't feel any pity, either. Rather it's the other way around, I hope to retire to homelessness some day soon. Friend, can you spare a buck?
                            Last edited by salmoned; June 2, 2008, 10:54 AM.
                            May I always be found beneath your contempt.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Rail Transit

                              Originally posted by salmoned View Post
                              Here's an idea - let's increase the price of vehicle registration until a stasis is achieved in the number of registered vehicles. If traffic remains too high, we increase the price until it recedes to a desired level.
                              Whoa. So, in your opinion, roads and cars should become a privilege for the wealthy? What about when there's too many wealthy drivers on the roads? Raise registration even more so that only the super wealthy have the right to use public roads and cars? I can only imagine how awful that could turn out!

                              How about we limit the number of cars allowed per household. Like they do with one (or is it two?) kids per couple in Asia.
                              ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

                              Comment


                              • Re: Rail Transit

                                Whoa, I never said anything about restricting access to the roads - don't rewrite or wildly misinterpret what's been suggested. Roads and cars are not an elemental unity. One has feet to walk on, bikes and other human powered vehicles can be ridden, resources can be shared. Cars already ARE a 'privilege for the wealthy'. First, one must buy (or lease) one, then one must have insurance, maintain the vehicle, pay for gas, etc. Mandating household limits undermines our freedom (not to mention how one would determine what constitutes a 'household', and that without limiting the number of 'households' this idea offers no solution whatsoever), while increasing the cost to own and operate a vehicle doesn't.
                                Last edited by salmoned; June 2, 2008, 11:27 AM.
                                May I always be found beneath your contempt.

                                Comment

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