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Thread: Rail Transit

  1. #1001

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    It's a done deal. Mufi will ram it down our throats and run off to the Gov's race, while pointing finger at everyone else as it turns into the big pile it's doomed for.

  2. #1002

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    I made a prediction over a year ago that this project won't get off the ground. So far, current circumstances seem to be leading up to this. Everyone is looking at the economy the way they've been their whole lives, not realizing that the dollar will collapse from right under them. This will end up being a ghost project, just like the Natatorium, except the repercussions will be worse, because we couldn't afford the rail project to begin with, and soon, we'll have a dollar with less than half its purchasing power. People are going to be more concerned about getting a bite to eat than catching a ride to a job they've been laid off from.

  3. #1003
    sansei Guest

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    hi,imoht.i disagree is since mostly everyone voted for rail,i have the most faith that the rail project will become reality and most of who voted for rail,will be delighted.

    i for one even though rail wont be in my area,it'll be nice for folk's who live on the other sid of the island will be delighted.

    well thank's for your time=O)

  4. #1004

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
    People are going to be more concerned about getting a bite to eat than catching a ride to a job they've been laid off from.
    Maybe they can offer free onboard meals and a sleeper car...

  5. #1005
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    Default Re: Rail Transit

    * bump *

    So check out this story on CNN.com :

    Obama announces $8 billion investment in high-speed train system
    January 28, 2010 8:58 p.m. EST

    Washington (CNN) -- President Obama announced Thursday that the federal government will spend $8 billion developing a nationwide high-speed train system -- an investment the White House says is needed to help spur long-term economic growth.
    The investment, to be made through a series of state grants, will be funded through the government's $862 billion economic stimulus package.
    Overall, projects and planning involving the rail corridors will take place in 31 states, according to a White House statement.
    (...)
    More than 30 rail manufacturers have agreed to establish or expand U.S. operations if they are hired to work on the high-speed rail network, the administration said.
    The president first mentioned the program in his State of the Union speech Wednesday night. The administration initially released an outline for a national high-speed rail network last April.
    Each of the corridors identified by the administration last year are between 100 and 600 miles long.
    (...)
    Train corridors in the program include:

    -- San Diego-Los Angeles-San Luis Obispo in California

    -- Oakland-Sacramento in California

    -- Portland-Eugene in Oregon

    -- Seattle-Portland in Washington and Oregon

    -- Chicago-St. Louis in Illinois and Missouri

    -- St. Louis-Kansas City in Missouri

    -- Minneapolis/St. Paul-Madison in Minnesota and Wisconsin

    -- Madison-Milwaukee in Wisconsin

    -- Milwaukee-Chicago in Wisconsin and Illinois

    -- Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati in Ohio

    -- Detroit/Pontiac-Chicago in Michigan, Indiana and Illinois

    -- Tampa-Orlando in Florida

    -- Raleigh-Charlotte in North Carolina

    -- Washington-Richmond in the District of Columbia and Virginia

    -- Raleigh-Richmond in North Carolina and Virginia

    -- New York City-Albany-Buffalo in New York

    -- New York City-Montreal in New York and Quebec, Canada.

    -- Boston-New York-Washington in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, and the District of Columbia

    -- Brunswick-Portland in Maine

    -- Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh in Pennsylvania

    -- Springfield-East Northfield in Massachusetts

    -- New Haven-Springfield in Connecticut and Massachusetts




    Among other things, notice that none of those federal $8 billion dollars are planned for Hawaii.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  6. #1006
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    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    Each of the corridors identified by the administration last year are between 100 and 600 miles long.

    Among other things, notice that none of those federal $8 billion dollars are planned for Hawaii.
    Mainly because the planned rail line for Oahu is only something like around 22 miles or so, even pushing it with expanding to UH and all that, it still would fall way under the 100 mile level. Also too the rail plan for Oahu is a commuter line with stops at each mile. It's not what one would call high speed rail and as such I am not worried that Oahu's rail plan wasn't mention in the federal plan.

  7. #1007

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    One step closer as FTA makes an announcement that they intend to fund $1.55 billion to Honolulu for rail.

  8. #1008

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    One step closer as FTA makes an announcement that they intend to fund $1.55 billion to Honolulu for rail.
    After a few short years, $1.5 billion will be more like $1.5 million.

  9. #1009

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
    After a few short years, $1.5 billion will be more like $1.5 million.
    Just like $8 a gal gas.

  10. #1010
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    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    Just like $8 a gal gas.
    At $8 a gallon better start guarding your car. I remember back in the early 70's when people would steal gas by siphoning it out of your tank in the middle of the night. Then someone came up with a brilliant idea, locking gas caps. Then the crooks just drilled out the tank and drained it out that way.

    Hey maybe now Mufi can name his rail project after that fabled transit system our beloved late mayor Fasi had envisioned: Fasi Area Rapid Transit or F.A.R.T.

    RIP Hizzoner!
    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

  11. #1011

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    At $8 a gallon better start guarding your car. I remember back in the early 70's when people would steal gas by siphoning it out of your tank in the middle of the night. Then someone came up with a brilliant idea, locking gas caps. Then the crooks just drilled out the tank and drained it out that way.

    Hey maybe now Mufi can name his rail project after that fabled transit system our beloved late mayor Fasi had envisioned: Fasi Area Rapid Transit or F.A.R.T.

    RIP Hizzoner!
    How about "Old F.A.R.T." ?

  12. #1012

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    There are "public investments" and "private investments". Its not complicated. A gas tax pays for things like roads you need to drive your car on. Collecting a tax to finance a water project for a community can increase land values quite a bit. Then the community benefits, individuals benefit, and the community is free to tax land at increased values and profits and rents in order to finance other improvements. The important thing is to buy (invest in) things that create more wealth, rather than less. A war you don't need to fight can be very expensive, hundreds of billions of dollars. Better to spend it on something that will make a lot of money, like education, so millions of your people can not only live better lives and make more money, but broaden the tax base. There is such a thing as "false economy" meaning to save money but cost yourself much more. Not paying to fix a leaking roof, saving money by not buying oil for your car, and letting education rot in order to save money now but cost tons more later, are good examples. It takes money to make money. If we as individuals hear about a good money making opportunity we are eager to jump in. Its a good idea for the government to make wise public investment decisions, too.

  13. #1013

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    But as to O'ahu rail...I am just not convinced that its necessary or a wise expenditure. It would be much cheaper and maybe just as effective to have traffic engineers analyze traffic flows and smooth them out. Synchronized traffic lights help a lot. See where bottlenecks occur at freeway exits and entrances and street intersections. It might be helpful to encourage companies to stagger work hours so everybody doesn't need the same road at the same time. Disabled and elderly people do need public transportation and buses and vans are a lot more flexible than a rail system would ever be. Rail systems work fine in high density cities but Honolulu is not such a city.

  14. #1014

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    You just know it's going to be a frustrating disaster in all aspects.
    And they still havn't mentioned anything about fares...

    Just put the effort into a truly world class bus system, work out the road logistics, and forget this potential horror.

    Most people simply aren't going to give up their 1 or 2 hours of private time while commuting.

  15. #1015
    sansei Guest

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    hi,i wish to share that if we had a bus system,it would only be not good for traffic since we would have traffic gridlock and no one would enjoy it.rail tranisit would work and since our city is fairly large,i agree with our mayor that we do need rail tranist and only where i live,we would need the bus system.

    well thank's for your time=O)

  16. #1016

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    And they still haven't mentioned anything about fares...
    Actually they did, they said it will be the same fare as the bus. Granted, bus fares change over time but their plan is to match it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    Most people simply aren't going to give up their 1 or 2 hours of private time while commuting.
    That remains to be seen, a lot of people already do that when commuting by car during rush hour.

  17. #1017

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    1) Actually they did, they said it will be the same fare as the bus. Granted, bus fares change over time but their plan is to match it.
    2) That remains to be seen, a lot of people already do that when commuting by car during rush hour.
    1) Yes, they said that once, long ago, and I'm not buying it unless bus fare is $5.
    2) That's exactly what I'm saying. Most people aren't going to give that up.

  18. #1018

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    1) Yes, they said that once, long ago, and I'm not buying it unless bus fare is $5.
    2) That's exactly what I'm saying. Most people aren't going to give that up.
    1) Sure, I understand you may be skeptical, but they did mention what the fares would be. I would rather they get rid of transfers, lower the bus fare slightly, and bump up the fare of the rail once the system is place.

    2) I don't get that you're saying that. You said most people aren't going to give up 1-2 hours of their personal time for commuting and my point is, they already do. If traffic on roads get worse in the future, then the rail/bus schedule actually is better.

  19. #1019
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    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
    How about "Old F.A.R.T." ?
    How about M.U.F.T.I.T. or Han-da-Trans?
    Last edited by salmoned; February 8th, 2010 at 02:02 PM.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  20. #1020
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    Lightbulb Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    But as to O'ahu rail...I am just not convinced that its necessary or a wise expenditure. It would be much cheaper and maybe just as effective to have traffic engineers analyze traffic flows and smooth them out. Synchronized traffic lights help a lot. See where bottlenecks occur at freeway exits and entrances and street intersections.
    These kinds of clueless analysis are typical of HT’rs who are both A. too lazy to read through the thread before posting and B. aren’t involved enough personally (i.e. live and work in Honolulu) to understand what’s going on.

    Realize, Kalalau, that traffic engineers and planners have already analyzed traffic flow and bottlenecks at every problem area on the island. The problem is really quite simple: there are too many vehicles on the road during rush hour. Period. There are too many idiots on the road, resulting in too many accidents causing delays on nearly a daily basis. Period.

    The solution is to eliminate cars that are only on the road because they have no other choice. We’ve already maxed out HOV lanes and every other alternative to rail. Buses only add to the traffic gridlock, and are already overcrowded anyway. Double-decker “toll-road” freeways would be just as expensive as rail to build because of massive concrete reinforcement needed and the logistical nightmare of double-decker on-ramps. We’ve even tried “TheBoat.”

    So What haven’t we tried yet? I don’t like being overtaxed either, but I’m a firm believer in “preventative maintenance.” More young people get their driver’s license daily. The economy goes in cycles, and once things improve, more people will move back to the islands, more cars will be on the road, and the problem will be even worse then it is now. Rail critics need to stop being whiny crybabies and come up with an alternative solution. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    It might be helpful to encourage companies to stagger work hours so everybody doesn’t need the same road at the same time.
    Good suggestion. And how does one “encourage” companies to do this? Wouldn’t companies that could afford to do this already be doing it?

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

  21. #1021

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    We’ve even tried “TheBoat.”

    So What haven’t we tried yet?
    Try "S-U-P-E-R-F-E-R-R-Y", which all those mainland hippies effectively destroyed and caused 350+ people to lose jobs and an opportunity to decrease traffic without paying narry a cent. The Ferry could be modified to carry 1,000 people without their cars and make multiple trips from Kalaeloa and Honolulu Harbor during rush hour. All we had to do was make provisions for bus transport from within neighborhoods and large parking areas for those who need to drive to the port.

    I say get rid of those trouble makers and bring back the ferry. Those two things will help solve our traffic woes.

    We're the only State residing near large masses of water that doesn't use if for transportation. How stupid are we? And don't give me any bull crap about killing whales or destroying our reef sytem. Matson already did that! Besides, the whales hang out at the mall.
    Last edited by helen; February 8th, 2010 at 08:06 PM. Reason: fixing the quote

  22. #1022

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    So What haven’t we tried yet?
    Well, we could pass all kinds of taxes on cars so essentially, the only affordable cars to choose from would be Smart, Mini, Aveo, Fit, Yaris, type of cars. If the majority of car owners ended up with these vehicles, you would have increased capacity on the existing roads. But in all honestly, what politician will have that kind of will power to pass such legislation? I can see all the car dealers and what not form a lobbying alliance of some sort to shoot this down.

    Or we could go third world style and designate certain lanes as scooter-only lanes, again increasing the existing roads' capacity. But Harris couldn't even do it for his BRT, doubt this will happen either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
    Try "S-U-P-E-R-F-E-R-R-Y", which all those mainland hippies effectively destroyed and caused 350+ people to lose jobs and an opportunity to decrease traffic without paying narry a cent. The Ferry could be modified to carry 1,000 people without their cars and make multiple trips from Kalaeloa and Honolulu Harbor during rush hour.
    The ferry seats 800+ pax as is so I would say you don't even need to modify, just keep the cargo decks empty. But with two ships, what type of ferry frequency service can you provide?

  23. #1023

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
    How stupid are we?
    We're as stupid as those that voted in a Governor that would be willing to blow it by not following proper proceedure on something so important. Them danged hippies just did what it took to get it corrected, then the SF owners ran away.

    Everybody lost.

  24. #1024

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    We're as stupid as those that voted in a Governor that would be willing to blow it by not following proper proceedure on something so important. Them danged hippies just did what it took to get it corrected, then the SF owners ran away.

    Everybody lost.
    You have a point. However, time was of the essence, and time waits for no one. One must seize the opportunity when it presents itself. It's just so unfortunate things happened the way it did. In the business world, you have to take chances. It's very easy for one thing to derail a great business venture.

    Notice "they're" not going after the shipping companies to provide an Environmental Impact Statement. I'm sure it's because it will have a profoundly detrimental impact on our lives. It's too bad they couldn't grant the a similar exemption with the understanding that a $5.3 Billion tax burden, plus the cost to run rail will do just that. The people also forget that $2 Billion is needed to upgrade the Sand Island Wastewater Treatment Plant, which is being demanded by the EPA.

    I think we're really screwed. Thankx, Mufi. You'll join Jeremy Harris in the Hall of Shame.

  25. #1025

    Default Re: Rail Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    Well, we could pass all kinds of taxes on cars so essentially, the only affordable cars to choose from would be Smart, Mini, Aveo, Fit, Yaris, type of cars. If the majority of car owners ended up with these vehicles, you would have increased capacity on the existing roads. But in all honestly, what politician will have that kind of will power to pass such legislation? I can see all the car dealers and what not form a lobbying alliance of some sort to shoot this down.

    Or we could go third world style and designate certain lanes as scooter-only lanes, again increasing the existing roads' capacity. But Harris couldn't even do it for his BRT, doubt this will happen either.



    The ferry seats 800+ pax as is so I would say you don't even need to modify, just keep the cargo decks empty. But with two ships, what type of ferry frequency service can you provide?
    Our founding Fathers are turning in their graves at the idea that taxes is the answer to everything. If we taxed stupidity at the State Capitol and City Council, our State would be in the black.

    If you get 2 superferries doing 2 runs each morning, that's maybe around 3,200 people. That's a lot of cars off the road. Supplement at with a better bus system, and you've got a solution at a fraction of the cost.

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