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  • Re: Rail Transit

    Originally posted by salmoned View Post
    Random, you're mighty optimistic on the honorable senator's longevity.
    Very, considering I lost my father this year at the age of 88.

    We still have Akaka, and I'm sure Abercrombie picked up a trick or two from them. Not sure of Hirono. She's too honest to be slick.
    Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

    Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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    • Re: Rail Transit

      with a projected cost of 5 billion dollars we need some perspective.....they are widening and deepening that panama canal ...including rebuilding the locks for 5 billion dollars.....a worthy effort seeing as large ships PAY more than 200k to pass depending on their displacement......i just cant see a 5 billion dollar benefit here......when the govt does something like this there is just too much chance for scandal....it already started and not a shovel of earth has been moved.....honolulu is positioning itself to be the laughing stock for the next twenty years......
      the bigger the government the smaller the citizen.

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      • Re: Rail Transit

        Originally posted by escondido100 View Post
        with a projected cost of 5 billion dollars we need some perspective.....
        710,000 registered vehicles on Oahu at an average cost of $7,500 to own and operate annually: $5.3 billion a year.

        Comment


        • Re: Rail Transit

          Originally posted by escondido100 View Post
          with a projected cost of 5 billion dollars we need some perspective.....they are widening and deepening that panama canal ...including rebuilding the locks for 5 billion dollars.....a worthy effort seeing as large ships PAY more than 200k to pass depending on their displacement......i just cant see a 5 billion dollar benefit here......when the govt does something like this there is just too much chance for scandal....it already started and not a shovel of earth has been moved.....honolulu is positioning itself to be the laughing stock for the next twenty years......
          Have you actually seen how small the area of the locks really is?
          “First we fought the preliminary round for the k***s and now we’re gonna fight the main event for the n*****s."
          http://hollywoodbitchslap.com/review...=416&printer=1

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          • Re: Rail Transit

            hi this is sansei and i just wrote a letter to our great mayor on this rail and i shared with him that the steel on steel that panos is speaking of is from when our parent's were living and at that time it was noisy only you'd look at today's techonlogy and it's more upgraded and not noisy like those back in the day and that's how panos p his thought's are and this is why panos p want's to stop rail and i disagree that we should have rail since it'll be quicker is i rode the bus and it take's sometime before you get to your destination and you sometime's would be late and if their's trafficgridlock,you wouldnt be to happy so i thought to share this truth with everyone.

            well thank's for your time

            Comment


            • Re: Rail Transit

              Sansei-

              As I stated before, rail is a good idea we can't afford. To date, no one has presented a reasonable plan to finance this thing (at least nothing that I've heard). No matter how much you think this will make your life easier,it doesn't balance out. the .5% increase in GET won't cut it. If you own property, it's gonna end up costing you big because the City will have to increase your property taxes to bail itself out or face bankruptcy. If you own a car, they'll slap you so hard with registration fees, you'll end up with a constant migrain. Here come the toll roads people!

              To dive headlong into something as big as this without knowing its true cost or how it's going to be paid for even at a conservative cost estimate is extremely irresponsible on the part of government. They haven't even begun to address the ancient burials they're bound to unearth, which will further delay construction and cost more money.

              Remember the Natatorium? It was suppose to cost like $18-22 million, but they ended up spending $30M, and it's still not fixed! If the City can't handle something that small and historic, how can it handle rail?
              Last edited by Bobinator; August 4, 2008, 12:45 PM.

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              • Re: Rail Transit

                Let's be dead honest. Most of the cost overruns associated with so many projects can be traced to the Politics of NO!

                So many studies, public hearings, protests, EIS, traffic, lawyers, activists, troublemakers, bones, malcontents, cultural concerns, liberals, NIMBY's, CAVE people, foot-dragging, special interests, et al.

                It goes on and on. Each group thinks they are doing the right thing. Taken all together, they are the source of the intransigence. History books will villify them and infrastructure will crumble or be woefully inadequate 40 years from now.
                FutureNewsNetwork.com
                Energy answers are already here.

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                • Re: Rail Transit

                  hi this is sansei and i just returned from my dentist and i walked to don Quiojte bought lunch and went to the kalakaua bus stop and if you may not believe it,i waited for half an hour for what everyone think's that the bus is our savior and it's not true since waiting half an hour,in certain area's where rail wont be good,then the bus system is good only where rail is needed,i can truly understand that the rail is truly needed and no one not even Mr Panos would enjoy sitting in trafficgridlock on the bus or in a car is i agree with our great mayor who know's what he's speaks of and in my area,we would need upgraded buses only in kapolei to ala moana and the airport,the rail is needed is in my heart,no one would wish to sit in trafficgridlock on a bus or in a car,may anyone agree?

                  Well thanks for your time

                  Comment


                  • Re: Rail Transit

                    Originally posted by Bobinator View Post
                    the .5% increase in GET won't cut it.
                    It’s true what they say, that we simply cannot trust people to make an educated vote on this. If you had read through the entire thread before putting your two cents in, you would know that the 0.5% GET increase is not the sole source of funding. In addition to the $211 million the fund has raised to date, Rep. Neil Abercrombie has already secured an initial $20 million in federal funds, and promises along with Sen. Daniel Inouye, to secure an additional $900 million. Funding requests supported by Sen. Inouye, one of the most senior and powerful senators in the U.S. Senate, that don’t get approved have been few and far between during his 46-year tenure. I would imagine he has already had conversations with Sen. Obama about increasing the federal share, should Obama be elected President.

                    But if the question is cost, it’s timkona who actually makes a more compelling point. The politics of no, as he puts it, is solely to blame for the reason we do not already have rail transit. Let’s not forget it was Rene Mansho who in 1992 stunningly reversed her support in an 11th hour decision that slammed the door shut to as much as a promised 90% in federal funding for rail.

                    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                    USA TODAY, page 2A
                    11 March 1993

                    Comment


                    • Re: Rail Transit

                      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                      Let’s not forget it was Rene Mansho who in 1992 stunningly reversed her support in an 11th hour decision that slammed the door shut to as much as a promised 90% in federal funding for rail.
                      Yes, but do you remember WHY she changed her mind?

                      The mayor would not release maintenance cost estimates for the project. He was finally forced to at the last moment and they were double the $100+ million annually he had originally forecast.

                      So her vote was negative partly because there was no plan to cover those maintenance costs, and partly because the data was being withheld from the city council and public.

                      Harris was often criticised for building things with inadequate budget for maintenance.

                      Why are those supporting rail not demanding to know what it will actually cost us to build and maintain it and where that money will come from?

                      Comment


                      • Re: Rail Transit

                        Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                        This is a complete mischaracterization of what I posted. How you came to this conclusion is baffling. I can only surmise that you corrolate the term pander with base, as a result of the example given of the word’s usage. It’s just one example of thousands. Definitions are definitions and examples are examples. Try not to confuse the two.

                        This is a Republic, not a democracy. Get it straight. [/Political Science 101]

                        Anyhow, you still haven’t addressed the fact that two separate, independent polls show the majority of Hawai‘i residents favor rail. Therefore, on a practical basis, there is no functional purpose for conducting a vote on the issue. My point has nothing to do with whether they should or should not conduct that vote.
                        My dictionary defines pander as follows - "n. 1. a go-between in amorous intrigues. 2. a procurer; pimp. 3. A person who caters to or profits from the weaknesses or vices of others. v.i. 4. to act as a pander; cater basely: to pander to the tastes of vulgar persons. v.t. 5. to act as a pander for." That your definition omitted the base characterization of the word doesn't purify it of those connotations. If you utilize a flawed definition, only you can be held accountable for the flawed results.

                        When we vote directly on an issue, that's democracy, TuNnl. Might we vote directly on this issue? Yes, we might. If you find no functional purpose for conducting a vote on this issue based on those polls, your reasoning is clearly faulty and contradicted by the very polls you cite.

                        "Funding requests supported by Sen. Inouye, one of the most senior and powerful senators in the U.S. Senate, that don’t get approved have been few and far between during his 46-year tenure. I would imagine he has already had conversations with Sen. Obama about increasing the federal share, should Obama be elected President."

                        I'd like to see a shred of evidence supporting any of those claims and suppositions.

                        On timkona's "Let's be dead honest. Most of the cost overruns associated with so many projects can be traced to the
                        Politics of NO!"

                        I'm listening and would enjoy hearing your examples of cost overruns due to oppositional forces as compared to the cost overruns due to other factors, such as price and wage inflation, unanticipated expenses, etc. In fact, for this project many costs have not even been accounted for in the $5 billion dollar estimate - meaning it is sure to be exceeded. We can't even guess the magnitude of overruns without addressing those neglected aspects.
                        Last edited by salmoned; August 5, 2008, 11:05 AM.
                        May I always be found beneath your contempt.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Rail Transit

                          Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                          It’s true what they say, that we simply cannot trust people to make an educated vote on this. If you had read through the entire thread before putting your two cents in, you would know that the 0.5% GET increase is not the sole source of funding. In addition to the $211 million the fund has raised to date, Rep. Neil Abercrombie has already secured an initial $20 million in federal funds, and promises along with Sen. Daniel Inouye, to secure an additional $900 million. Funding requests supported by Sen. Inouye, one of the most senior and powerful senators in the U.S. Senate, that don’t get approved have been few and far between during his 46-year tenure. I would imagine he has already had conversations with Sen. Obama about increasing the federal share, should Obama be elected President.

                          But if the question is cost, it’s timkona who actually makes a more compelling point. The politics of no, as he puts it, is solely to blame for the reason we do not already have rail transit. Let’s not forget it was Rene Mansho who in 1992 stunningly reversed her support in an 11th hour decision that slammed the door shut to as much as a promised 90% in federal funding for rail.
                          That’s only $1.13 billion. Where’s the other $2.57+ billion gonna come from? And that’s just to build it.

                          Let’s not get into the Obama thing. Your statement reflects the same kind of arrogance this man has about the presidency- acting as if he’s already president, snubbing our military and flip-flopping on issues left and right. Let’s stick with the thread please.

                          Timkona does make a point, but it still doesn't address costs. I suspect the people against rail can balance their checkbooks better and have lower carryovers on their credit cards than the ones who support rail regardless of its cost. You’re taking a mean gamble when you make huge financial decisions based on hopes and dreams rather than actual earnings. The reasons rail didn’t fly in the past still hold true today. By no means does that equate to a bad decision.

                          Regarding Sansei’s last post, Rail will still require him to catch a bus to get to a rail station, and probably another bus to reach his final destination. Then, do it all over again on the way home. Buses will still be in the picture, along with a 30 minute wait for each bus.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Rail Transit

                            From the .5% GET increase. The trouble with that source is that it's going to vary from year to year depending on how people are spending money in the state.

                            Keep in mind that this source of funding didn't exist in 1992 and I think the City Council was thinking of raising property taxes to cover the cost of the rail project back then.

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                            • Re: Rail Transit

                              Why is "snubbing our military" such a horrible thing?
                              ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

                              Comment


                              • Re: Rail Transit

                                Originally posted by Bobinator View Post
                                Let’s stick with the thread please....
                                I suspect the people against rail can balance their checkbooks better and have lower carryovers on their credit cards than the ones who support rail regardless of its cost.
                                This statement is totally unfair and irrelevant. I am for rail, and I have never carried a balance on any credit card, and can absolutely balance my checkbook, as well as account for and justify every penny spent. And I'm just a plain ol' hardworking middle class girl. And I can assure you, once the rail is built and in service, I will spend fewer of my hard earned dollars on gas and parking. Yay!

                                Whether or not our elected government can balance their checkbooks 'better' remains to be seen, but their track record aint so great!

                                Further, just because you will take the rail does not mean that you will also have to connect by bus. Or wait 30 mins for said bus. People will be able to park at the stations, of course. Not everyone who uses rail also rides the bus all the time.
                                ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

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