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  • Re: Rail Transit

    Originally posted by mel View Post
    I hope all of you rail supporters are smiling every time that 4.7% exise tax is added to the bill on everything that we will be buying come January 1.

    The opponents will continue to oppose this huge debaucle til the day the train plan hopefully dies.

    So now that a vote has been taken, instead of getting together and moving forward, you rather sabotage? And you wonder why public money is constantly wasted. Oh well.....

    Comment


    • Re: Rail Transit

      Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
      So now that a vote has been taken, instead of getting together and moving forward, you rather sabotage? And you wonder why public money is constantly wasted. Oh well.....
      I don't know why rail supporters feel so threatened. You folks are winning.
      • The Governor handed you the tax increase on the silver platter in 2005
      • Mayor Hannemann is trumpeting nothing but rail
      • He wants only rail, no busses even though the Council left the technology open ended
      • The tax increase takes effect in only 8 days (Jan 1, 2007)
      • The "preferred alternative" has been chosen
      • The construction firms, unions and developers are salivating at the propsal - lots of $$$ for them to make
      • You get the illusion of ending traffic gridlock
      • With Democrats in control of Congress, rail supporters will have an easier time securing the federal funds (more taxes)
      • With Democrats in control as usual at the Legislature, rail supporters will ask for and probably get more tax increases



      Rail supporters have a lot to celebrate on January 1 as the sucking sound of more money out of our wallets begin. You won.

      Happy New Year.

      Last edited by mel; December 24, 2006, 04:25 PM. Reason: add links
      I'm still here. Are you?

      Comment


      • Re: Rail Transit

        I'm curious what this will do to the property values long-term on the Leeward side. You make it easier to get to town, and then those with money will come in and drive up the prices.

        Comment


        • Re: Rail Transit

          Originally posted by mel View Post
          Rail supporters have a lot to celebrate on January 1 as the sucking sound of more money out of our wallets begin. You won.
          If you don't like it, you can always move to the mainland...

          Comment


          • Re: Rail Transit

            Originally posted by mel View Post
            I don't know why rail supporters feel so threatened. You folks are winning.
            • The Governor handed you the tax increase on the silver platter in 2005
            • Mayor Hannemann is trumpeting nothing but rail
            • He wants only rail, no busses even though the Council left the technology open ended
            • The tax increase takes effect in only 8 days (Jan 1, 2007)
            • The "preferred alternative" has been chosen
            • The construction firms, unions and developers are salivating at the propsal - lots of $$$ for them to make
            • You get the illusion of ending traffic gridlock
            • With Democrats in control of Congress, rail supporters will have an easier time securing the federal funds (more taxes)
            • With Democrats in control as usual at the Legislature, rail supporters will ask for and probably get more tax increases

            I don't think any pro-rail folks feel threatened. Nor do I see this as any pissing contest to be won.

            Some of us feel rail is the better answer to future transport, some feel it's roads. Fixed guideway won the vote so it would be great to see people focus on getting it done right and on budget instead of trying to sabotage the efforts. The latter will indeed make all the talk of failure a self-fulfilling prophecy. Then you truly are wasting taxpayer's money.

            People with money to invest will always drive up real estate. Having a rail will at least help draw developers away from developing new lands, something that would benefit us all since we are on an island.

            Comment


            • Re: Rail Transit

              Sure, we're paying more in general excise tax. Lowell Kalapa claims that the average family of four will pay $500 each year in increased GE tax. But that means each family of four spends $100,000 annually. I sure wish I were that affluent. Talk about myth building. Too many won't stop to do the math and will buy into arguments like this.

              Compare the GE tax increase to how much more we're paying in gas costs. We spent $1.3 billion in gas last year. What we spend in gas each year will quickly dwarf what we will pay for a rail transit system.

              Factor in the cost of accidents. In 1990, according to state data, there were about 140 injuries per 100,000 population for motor vehicle crashes. How many of those were from municipal bus accidents? Anyone see any major news of these incidents involving our bus system? The rail system can be expected to have at least as good a safety record as our municipal bus. These deaths and injuries from private vehicles are something we all pay for: Increased auto insurance. Health insurance. Loss of productivity. Welfare to support people who are now incapacitated.

              Meanwhile, the option to moving more people instead of an efficient guideway system is ... ?

              We need to move a lot of people as efficiently as possible. Both in terms of fuel, time and cost. When looking at the price of any transit system, it needs to be compared to the cost of all other transit systems including private cars. And anyone thinking that private vehicles aren't a social cost is deceiving themselves. Aside from the cost of the cars themselves, there's operational expenses, cost of parking (what do people downtown pay for parking?) increased generation of greenhouse gasses, what to do with waste oil, plus injuries and deaths from POV's.

              Other transit options:

              Ocean ferry? No. Costs too much to push a boat on the water and it's too subject to weather. Anyone spending any time on the sea will know this.

              Bus? No. Gets caught in the same traffic as cars. Those thinking it's the best option needs to spend 4 hours a day trying to get from Leeward Oahu to UH.

              Second city? No. What if your job is in housekeeping in Waikiki and you live in Ewa? People need to go where the jobs are. If you fix planes for a living, you'll need to get to the airport. There are already stories of people living in East Oahu having to work in Kapolei when the City moved some of its offices.

              Telecommuting? Not for everyone. Tough to work in construction via computer.

              Bikes? How many are willing to pedal an hour each way each day. And how many are mentally tough enough to deal with traffic near Aloha Stadium? Or even go past the Board of Water Supply on Beretania?

              Complaining about having to pay for something that might not get used by a major part of the population in the state is a weak argument. I pay for health insurance yet I don't get sick. I never used the boat ramps in Hilo yet my boat ramp fee covers that cost. Some of my taxes go toward maintaining roadways and highways that I'll never use. It's part of being in a society that supports it citizens.

              Rail transit is a necessary evil, if you will. Anyone here feel that freeways are a wonderful, pretty sight? Anyone recall the stormy history of H3, when it was TH-3 and was supposed to go through Moanalua Valley? How much noise is anyone making about it today? And does anyone even notice the concrete structure winding its way along the Koolau range anymore? These are things that we all rely upon now. And I doubt that there are many out there who opposed these things who still adamantly refuse to utilize them.

              If this weren't such an attractive place to live and if the population hadn't gotten so huge, we wouldn't need freeways, vast expanses of asphalt, expansion of our harbor facilities and airports or rail transit systems.

              Comment


              • Re: Rail Transit

                Originally posted by mel View Post
                With Democrats in control of Congress, rail supporters will have an easier time securing the federal funds (more taxes)
                Better that than some other things they've been spending money on lately... At least those tax dollars will go towards helping our own citizens.

                Comment


                • Re: Rail Transit

                  I guess Charles Dijou and Barbara Marshall didn't receive coal in their stockings from Mel this year.

                  Next thing I'll be hearing from the anti-rail folks is that they will have to take on an extra job to pay the extra half percentage on taxes come next week.

                  If they build it they will come and most of those that are currently bitching will be riding the rail once it's built. It happens in every city on the mainland. Just think if 15 years ago when Fasi was in if the city council had approved the rail we would have had it already for a few years. But I can't complain about Honolulu's slow steps towards being a modern major metropolitan city without major transportation choices, Phoenix is finally building their rail transit after years of people fighting it. Why? Because the traffic is terrible over there as well even with the addition of several freeways, loops and bypasses. And wasnt that the rallying cry of Dijou and the rail dissenters: Build more roads....so we can add more cars on them!!

                  KalihiBoy

                  Comment


                  • Re: Rail Transit

                    Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                    Ocean ferry? No. Costs too much to push a boat on the water and it's too subject to weather. Anyone spending any time on the sea will know this.
                    The Federal Government has been doing it for YEARS!

                    My daughter, son-in-law and grandson rides the Ewa Ferry from Iroquois Point M-F. They take both cars. Pay $3.00 each to and fro. Save time, money and stress. They get to go outta their cars and watch the scenic view of the beautiful ocean and Oahu. Maxium ride time is ten minutes. Then they go into their cars and leave for their destinations...meet again at pauhana and go home.

                    The weather doesn't stop the Ferry.

                    If neva have Gas ~ yeah. But the Fed's get plenty gasoline.hahahaha

                    Auntie Lynn
                    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Rail Transit

                      Originally posted by Kalihiboy View Post
                      I guess Charles Dijou and Barbara Marshall didn't receive coal in their stockings from Mel this year.
                      I'm not surprised either Djou or Marshall voted against, considering the districts they represented would not see a direct, immediate benefit from a rail. Now that the vote's been taken, I just hope they focus on keeping the cost and accountability in check instead of just trying to sabotage.

                      If the rail was decided upon in the past attempts, we wouldn't even have to look at the current price tag and 80% of the tab would have been picked up by the feds. People complain about the taxes, why did they reject the 80% fed funding? That was like getting a huge tax rebate considering at 80%, we essentially had fed taxpayers from other states picking up the tab for us. So much for doing the math.

                      Originally posted by 1stwahine View Post
                      The Federal Government has been doing it for YEARS!

                      My daughter, son-in-law and grandson rides the Ewa Ferry from Iroquois Point M-F. They take both cars. Pay $3.00 each to and fro. Save time, money and stress. They get to go outta their cars and watch the scenic view of the beautiful ocean and Oahu. Maxium ride time is ten minutes. Then they go into their cars and leave for their destinations...meet again at pauhana and go home.

                      The weather doesn't stop the Ferry.

                      If neva have Gas ~ yeah. But the Fed's get plenty gasoline.hahahaha

                      Auntie Lynn
                      I'm not aware the ferry still exists? It's been tried several times in the past with fed money on pilot projects but as soon as the subsidizing ended, the ferry just wasn't sustainable.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Rail Transit

                        Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                        I'm not aware the ferry still exists? It's been tried several times in the past with fed money on pilot projects but as soon as the subsidizing ended, the ferry just wasn't sustainable.
                        heheheh

                        Mel didn't know about it either. It does exist...has been for a looong time. Only Military Personnel and their family can use it.

                        Ask my Antonio..he loves to ride Da Ferry!

                        Auntie Lynn
                        Last edited by 1stwahine; December 25, 2006, 08:33 AM.
                        Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                        Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Rail Transit

                          Originally posted by 1stwahine View Post
                          heheheh

                          Mel didn't know about either. It does exist...has been for a looong time. Only Military Personnel can use it.

                          Ask my Antonio..he loves to ride Da Ferry!

                          Auntie Lynn
                          Well now, that sorta doesn't qualify, now does it? If the military let us build out across Pearl Harbor and Hickam, there would be no issues with traffic gridlock.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Rail Transit

                            Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                            Well now, that sorta doesn't qualify, now does it? If the military let us build out across Pearl Harbor and Hickam, there would be no issues with traffic gridlock.
                            Eh! I'm not against the Rail System! Anything to help ease the current situation is betta den nuttin.

                            Auntie Lynn
                            Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                            Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                              I'm curious what this will do to the property values long-term on the Leeward side. You make it easier to get to town, and then those with money will come in and drive up the prices.
                              And property taxes within a mile radius of wherever the rail route goes. Higher property taxes will negatively impact long time residents and small businesses along the route, due to speculation and possible development plans.

                              Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                              Sure, we're paying more in general excise tax.
                              And that is where we all lose... paying more taxes.

                              All you rail supporters won. I hope you have fun and enjoy paying those increased taxes for the next 10, 20 or 30 years.

                              I'm still here. Are you?

                              Comment


                              • Re: Rail Transit

                                Originally posted by mel
                                All you rail supporters won. I hope you have fun and enjoy paying those increased taxes for the next 10, 20 or 30 years.
                                You sound like a broken record... just move to the mainland already and you won't have to deal with Hawaii's taxes.

                                Comment

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