Statehood Day Holiday

[TuNnL]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Ok... TuNnL... I may need some back up here..

in 2000... I worked as the Production Assistant to All Legislative Hearings for Capitol Television...

(I even invited TuNnL to come to some live hearings and sit in the little black room that is behind the legislatures where we do our switching etc.)

I personally worked as a Liason between Olelo and the Legislature to ensure that their programs were scheduled in a timely manner.

I often had to override previously scheduled olelo programs to get them aired in a timely fashion....

The words I was told to use by my supervisor at the time.... were something to the effect that the Legislature controls funding to Olelo and if they have a beef with getting our meetings on the air....then... they (Olelo) will have to answer to the legislatures....

In the last few years since the programming department has changed personell, there doesn't seem to be quite that rift between Legislative programming and regular programming.

Mānoa, don’t you dare drag me into the ‘Ōlelo us vs. them war. You make such a big secret about who you work for and then you go bring up this shee-yat. You know poinographer is going to call you on it, so why go here? Are you sure you want to air this out in public? Some people still dont consider it over. They got the “outer island peeps” to constantly remind them. Think about it.

PM would be prudent.

[1stwahine]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Mānoa, don’t you dare drag me into the ‘Ōlelo us vs. them war. You make such a big secret about who you work for and then you go bring up this shee-yat. You know poinographer is going to call you on it, so why go here? Are you sure you want to air this out in public? Some people still dont consider it over. They got the “outer island peeps” to constantly remind them. Think about it.

PM would be prudent.

Ahem. TuNnL, go read wat you wrote me in Hiss Harris.

Auntie Lynn

[Jewlipino]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Darn it I watched all the other stuff and still no video footage of the band encounter! Sure they talk calmly about it, but they also talk pretty calmly about their encounters with Sen. Slom's group and vid evidence shows that to be a study in contrasts. I think what I'm getting at is that I can understand hostility between Sen. Slom's group and the Hawaiian activists (not taking sides there, who knows everything that was said by either side except the people who were there, and they both have very different stories), but what concerns me is how the Kalani Band was approached by Hawaiian activists, and if the KHNL footage is a used as a measuring stick then they may have been approached very poorly. Granted it may be that it is unfair to view the behavior exhibited in the KHNL footage as that extended toward the Band, but at the moment what other footage of the situation do we have? The Hawaiians said they were educating the Band, the Slom-ites say the Band was being harassed, and the skeptic in me says neither is telling the full truth.

Jewlipino

[kamuelakea]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

I think what I'm getting at is that I can understand hostility between Sen. Slom's group and the Hawaiian activists (not taking sides there, who knows everything that was said by either side except the people who were there, and they both have very different stories), but what concerns me is how the Kalani Band was approached by Hawaiian activists, and if the KHNL footage is a used as a measuring stick then they may have been approached very poorly. Jewlipino

Not taking sides..............................BUT.

Don't know what happened, .................. BUT concerned about the treatment of the band. Why are you so concerned even though no evidence exists yet?

Jewlipino, I'll let you in on something so you don't have to try so hard. I'll make it easy.

1) Hawaiians had their country stolen.
2) When people have their country stolen, they sometimes get angry.
3) The same types of other people who stole the Hawaiian Nation originally like to be confrontational and obnoxious.
4) They chose to have their little party at Iolani Palace and knew the reaction it would get. That's why they chose it.
5) When people are angry, they tend to yell at each other.

[pzarquon]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Not entering into the main fray here but the government doesn't actually guarantee free speech, just that the government won't prevent free speech (with some exceptions).

True, it's more about preventing government surpression than guaranteeing expression. And yes, some people confuse a private party's restrictions (this message board, a local paper, etc.) as a violation of the Constitution. I was just trying to use a couple of simpler, abstract concepts to answer dear, sweet Manoa's question, "if the government mandates something... isn't that government control?" Before realizing, of course, that it was a waste of time.

I suspect I might have just clouded things more, but by that point I was dizzy.

And getting back to the original topic of this thread? I only know secondhand what transpired, largely through the Kalani band's perspective... and stand by what I said early on -- the sovereignty activists did cross the line of civility, and I think they should regret missing an opportunity to have the high ground. But Slom engineeredthis confrontation, and dragged the kids in the middle of it for dramatic affect, and my primary beef for what transpired (ugliness from both sides) is with him and the other organizers.

[sinjin]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Statehood was voted upon by Japanese immigrants and their children, Chinese immigrants and their children, filipino immigrants and their children and few Haoles.

Statehood was not voted upon by the majority of Hawaiians.

But many Hawaiians did vote for statehood and understandably so. Territorial governors are appointed in Washington whereas state governors are elected by state residents. Given that U.S. possession was a fact of life, it makes some sense to try to acquire local control. I believe Ms.Trask's father worked for statehood IIRC.

[timkona]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Hey Kam, how do you KNOW that the majority of Hawaiians didnt vote for statehood?

The vote was 94% in favor of statehood. Maybe Hawaiians did not vote.

Apathy is not a valid excuse for anything.

[poinographer]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

As I understand it, the vote presented two options: continue as Territory, or become a State. Independence was not on the ballot.

Thus, I think it's speculation to conclude that the result should be interpreted as more in support of statehood than against territorial status.

[Adri]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

sorry this is a private board! It is controlled and owned by a private individual.

I myself have been personally warned about comments I make and have been threatened with being put on a probationary status by the gods of HT! I shaped up as quickly as I could....and still press buttons....(sorry pz).

hee! I'm not sorry this is a private board. Also, that was part of my point. The government does not guarantee free speech ~ especially in places like private boards ~ just that the government won't unreasonably interfere in free speech.

*hands Pz a glass of ginger ale and a barf bucket, just in case he's still dizzy*

eta: to sort of get back to topic, sort of. I don't understand why Slom would engineer such a thing (not questioning whether he did, just dunno why he would) or why he kepts getting re-elected, for that matter.

[timkona]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

In 1893, all it took was 1500 citizens and 150 Marines (who never fired a shot).

Considering that Kamehameha killed thousands of men, women, & children by tossing them over a cliff, I wonder what happened to that great warrior mentality. It is ironic that a bloodthirsty, savage murderer is revered in a land where his progeny did nothing to defend their nation.

Perhaps time DOES change things. Change is good.

Politicians in Hawaii get elected for lots of wrong reasons. Abercrombie, in Congress, votes in favor of Hezbollah, and is revered by the good liberals of Hawaii. Or the critique of pork-barrel spending, when Akaka is the master of pork. It will continue on both sides of the political coin, as it has for years.

[Jewlipino]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Not taking sides..............................BUT.

Don't know what happened, .................. BUT concerned about the treatment of the band. Why are you so concerned even though no evidence exists yet?

Jewlipino, I'll let you in on something so you don't have to try so hard. I'll make it easy.

1) Hawaiians had their country stolen.
2) When people have their country stolen, they sometimes get angry.
3) The same types of other people who stole the Hawaiian Nation originally like to be confrontational and obnoxious.
4) They chose to have their little party at Iolani Palace and knew the reaction it would get. That's why they chose it.
5) When people are angry, they tend to yell at each other.

Kam:
1) The Hawaiians LOST their country through a combination of the actions of the ali'i, the avarice of European (USA included in that list) colonial powers, and inaction at key moments by the kanaka maoli.
2) Getting angry about losing your country does no good whatsoever unless that anger is tightly focused.
3) Hmmmm the same types of people.... should we include the all the Trasks, Kawananakoas, and other descendants of complicit ali'i in that list? But I guess that would make SENSE because some of the activists were definitely confrontational and obnoxious. How you people can be proud of what your royalty did is beyond me....
4) While I wouldn't put it past Sen. Slom to arrange this little stunt to provoke a reaction, who loses? Would it not have been better to take the high road instead of verifying what the Slom-ites think about the Hawaiian activists by acting obnoxious and confrontational?
5) OK, Hawaiians get angry, they yell, who cares? In the court of public opinion the activists have made the Slom-ites look like the reasonable party and the activists look like a group of bitter people trying to force their view on others. You tell me who wins.

FINALLY: the only evidence I have is what Sen. Slom's group said, the Hawaiian activists said, and the KHNL footage. Apparently the activists didn't even have the decency to allow the singing of the national anthem without interruption, yet were allowed to hold hands and chant and not get interrupted. The activists own descriptions of their encounters with the Slom-ites don't jive with reality, which was that some chose to bully their way into conversations with much huffing and puffing and pointing of fingers. So what I'm left with, to my chagrin, is that Slom-ites come out looking like the good guys and the activists look like a immature, bullying, angry, unreasonable mob. Since the activists haven't seen fit to publish video of the Band confrontation either it doesn't exist or it contains things they don't want the rest of the world to see, which in the former case means that the word of the Band members and the Slom-ites is the truth (scary and disturbing), and in the latter case the activists are willfully covering up evidence of their lack of candor and misbehaviour (even more scary and disturbing).

So who won, activists or Slom-ites? Personally I don't like either of them that much, but it would have been nice to see the activists take the high ground here.

Jewlipino

[sinjin]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Considering that Kamehameha killed thousands of men, women, & children by tossing them over a cliff...

Where do you get your information suggesting women and children were driven off the Nu'uanu Pali?

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

I don't understand why Slom would engineer such a thing (not questioning whether he did, just dunno why he would) or why he kepts getting re-elected, for that matter.

I don't understand why most of our elected officials keep getting re-elected. I guess his constituents like him enough to not want him gone. That probably says something about them as a group.

[LikaNui]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

I’m happy to be a non-Hawaiian defending Native Hawaiians

And your qualifications for doing that are... ?
And the native Hawaiians who asked you, as an outsider, to defend them are... ?

[Jewlipino]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Where do you get your information suggesting women and children were driven off the Nu'uanu Pali?

yea seriously, it was nothing but warriors up there. I don't think that women and children were involved. Plus the whole situation is fuzzy and accounts vary as to what happened.

On a side note Kamehameha I was the first and last great Hawaiian King. He took European technology, but not culture and law. In Queen Ka'ahumanu's bid to pass on the kingdom to her blood relations she undermined and destroyed the Hawaiian religion, land management and kapu systems that granted no such guarantee of inheritance to her descendants. Subsequent Kings were dissipate and ineffective, and played at being petty European royalty rather than tending to welfare of their people. While Kamehameha III initiated the Great Mahele it is Queen Ka'ahumanu's short sightedness that ultimately led to the loss of Hawaiian lands, something only the ali'i could do.

On a further side note land records show that the first Hawaiian lands to be sold in fee to outsiders after the Great Mahele were those lands held by the ali'i, and that those lands in maka'ainana hands tended to be sold only after two or three generations. This contrasts with the more common view that after the Mahele the maka'ainana were immediately swindled out of their lands, the first steps down the slippery slope were taken by the ali'i and their families.

Jewlipino