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  • Re: Gun Control

    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    The bottom line for me is that the increase in gun violence in the US has become unbearable, is directly attributable to the easier access to high-powered weaponry available here (and not in many other first-world nations), and can no longer be permitted to continue in this direction.
    U.S. Senator Stockman says:
    "In the 22 years before enactment of ‘gun free school zones,’ there were two mass school shootings,” Stockman said. “In the 22 years since enactment of ‘gun free schools,’ there have been 10 mass school shootings."

    I don't agree with his conclusion that 'gun free school zones' are the culprit, nor do I agree that easier access to high-powered weaponry is responsible for this rise in violence. Other nations with restrictive gun laws have seen mass killings as well as the US.

    In the past 22 years it has become more and more difficult to acquire firearms - though it seems more and more people are doing so - likely in reaction to perceived future restrictions, as we are seeing now across the nation: "Buy the guns before you can't any more." The laws and restrictions are backfiring. We're on a witch-hunt when there aren't any witches.

    Assault weapon look-alikes have been available since the 1970s - 40 years ago, but this is more of a recent phenomenon. A sensible response (opposed to the reactions and reactions to reactions we are currently seeing) is to convene a national study of the root causes of such violence, and create a comprehensive solution. Get some University think-tanks to study the perpetrators and the events, find out where we went astray and how to fix it. Time to write our congressmen and senators.

    Certainly ranting, arguing and calling other people "nuts," "trolls," or whatever else solves NOTHING! We can all agree there is a mass violence problem of recent origin. Statistics show it's not the availability of assault weapon look-alikes, so in addition to eliminating "toy" weapons (those which have no legitimate use), we need to have some knowledgable people study the problem and propose some sensible solutions.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
    ~ ~
    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

    Comment


    • Re: Gun Control

      Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
      A sensible response is to convene a national study of the root causes of such violence, and create a comprehensive solution. Get some University think-tanks to study the perpetrators and the events, find out where we went astray and how to fix it.

      Time to write our congressmen and senators.
      Babies having babies having crackhead babies having crackhead babies that have grown up with trashy media and movies (and not the good kind of trashy media, like Soupy Sales and all his violence) and not enuf guidence and education. These problems were obviously coming, we've seen them developing from decades ago, no mystery here. Roosters eventually come home to roost.

      Write them for what, a blowoff response? Most are too consumed with reelection to bother with real problems that might negate one of those votes.

      We'll never rid the bad guys of guns and more, the genie is out of the bottle, and he's insane.
      Arm and protect yourself, now!
      https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

      Comment


      • Re: Gun Control

        Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
        Write them for what, a blowoff response? Most are too consumed with reelection to bother with real problems that might negate one of those votes.

        We'll never rid the bad guys of guns and more, the genie is out of the bottle, and he's insane.
        Arm and protect yourself, now!
        True. No matter what we will never get rid of the bad guys and their guns.
        But, it's kids killing kids, not bad guys.

        What about the innocent school kids? Arm them, too?
        Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
        ~ ~
        Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
        Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
        Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

        Comment


        • Re: Gun Control

          Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
          But, it's kids killing kids, not bad guys.
          What about the innocent school kids? Arm them, too?
          I dunno, another reason why I don't want kids.
          https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

          Comment


          • Re: Gun Control

            It is interesting that the gun nut shooter in Aurora CO acquired his guns legally and was subject to a background check. That did not prevent his massacre in the movie theater. The point is that more rigorous firearm licensing will not prevent these tragedies from occurring again. Statistically and historically the only thing that will minimize gun violence is a total ban on firearms.

            It is gratifying that each day brings more and more influential people calling for significant gun control. Also VT Biden stated today that POTUS is willing to take Executive Action (by-passing Congressional approval) to control gun violence if Congress does not act.
            Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

            People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

            Comment


            • Re: Gun Control

              Originally posted by matapule View Post
              Statistically and historically the only thing that will minimize gun violence is a total ban on firearms.
              Statistically and historically, that's short-sighted, untrue and shows you aren't interested in the truth, just your opinion, pulled out of a cloud somewhere.

              You want statistics and history?

              The World's Top 5 Worst Gun Massacres by an Individual

              Anders Behring Breivik, (aged 32, captured), at Utøya Island, Norway, on 22 Jul 2011: 77 killed, (151 wounded)
              Norway's gun laws are significantly more restrictive than the USA. The number and type of weapons are severely restricted.

              Woo Bum-Kon, (aged 27, suicided at scene), at Sang-Namdo, South Korea on 26 Apr 1982: 57 killed, (35 wounded)
              At the time, as now, in South Korea all guns outside of military and police are forbidden to civilians and all guns are strictly illegal (banned).

              Martin Bryant, (aged 29, captured), at Port Arthur, Australia on 28 Apr 1996: 35 killed, (21 wounded)
              Australia initiated stricter gun laws after this incident, and there have been no massacres (that I could find) since.

              Seung-Hui Cho, (aged 23, suicided at scene), at Blacksburg, Virginia USA on 16 Apr 2007: 32 killed, (25 wounded)
              Nuff said. US laws. He bypassed the National Instant Safety check to acquire firearms illegally.

              Campo Elías Delgado (aged 52, killed at scene) Bogota, Colombia, 4 Dec 1986 30 killed, (15 wounded)
              Columbia's gun laws are more repressive than the US. In Colombia, civilians are not allowed to possess pistols and revolvers of calibre superior to 9.652mm, automatic arms, semi-automatic rifles and carbines over 22 caliber LR, or ammunition for these arms.
              In Colombia, private possession of fully automatic weapons is prohibited.
              In Colombia, private possession of semi-automatic assault weapons is prohibited.

              And in Jolly Old Gun Ban England:

              The Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 was passed, which banned the ownership of semi-automatic centre-fire rifles and restricted the use of shotguns with a capacity of more than three cartridges (in magazine plus the breech).
              Yet there was the 1996 Dunblane massacre (16 deaths 15 children 1 adult) and the 2010 Cumbria shootings (12 killed 11 injured), one of the worst criminal atrocities involving firearms in British history. A total ban on firearms doesn't seem to do much. As far as I could find there was only one significant massacre before the law, the Hungerford Massacre, which stimulated the ban.

              Only in Australia has a total gun ban worked to stop school killings, and only so far.

              And we have to figure out why schools, from elementary schools to Colleges, are the targets!

              Banning Guns is NOT enough! We have to have other strategies, and as long as we think just banning guns will solve the problem, we are setting ourselves up for failure.

              In Australia it got better, but in England it got worse! After their second massacre they banned all handguns and banned pocket knives, and the third massacre was the worst of all.

              As long as we just use gun ownership as a scapegoat, we will continually be disappointed.

              Time to come back to reality, Matapule. Do a little research, and post your findings here, rather than making up your solutions.
              Last edited by Kaonohi; January 9, 2013, 07:21 PM.
              Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
              ~ ~
              Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
              Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
              Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

              Comment


              • Re: Gun Control

                Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                And we have to figure out why schools, from elementary schools to Colleges, are the targets!
                It's because the guys are failing at modern life, and they need to succeed at something -- to be noticed. There is a taboo against harming children, so killing a bunch of them is a sure-fire way of getting noticed. The media are happy to cooperate by rehearsing the event over and over, interviewing tearful parents, wringing out every bit of sadness, regret, recrimination -- all powerful emotions that increase viewership. It's business.

                There is an obvious remedy, though it is unconstitutional. Suppress all mention of the massacres in the press (and discussion on web forums).
                Greg

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                • Re: Gun Control

                  A person who produced a popular YouTube Channel for gun advocates, has apparently committed suicide at his home. Even though he was a gun nut and should not have owned any guns since they proved the means to his demise, I mourn the death of anyone who is a victim of gun violence. May he find the peace in eternity that he could not attain with his guns here.
                  Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                  People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                  Comment


                  • Re: Gun Control



                    Nothing more to be said.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Gun Control

                      Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                      [...]
                      Nothing more to be said.
                      Well...maybe just a little more!!!

                      Angry Gun Advocate Loses It Live On CNN In The Most. Bizarre. Interview. EVER.
                      Jon Stewart Calls Out Gun Control Opponents: 'It Is Absolutely The Time To Talk'

                      Comment


                      • Re: Gun Control

                        Originally posted by matapule View Post
                        the only thing that will minimize gun violence is a total ban on firearms.
                        In your world the most significant minimization of gun violence will be to the killers, they'll survive more massacres should they not commit suicide, but the victims will still be numerous because the bad guys will always get their guns, but we won't have equitable defense. No thanx.

                        Don't mess with Ted.
                        https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

                        Comment


                        • Re: Gun Control

                          Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                          However, I did sense a level of frustration creeping in that last post
                          I'm all good now Took a nice break from this emotional topic and saw an early screening of a good movie. All happy-happy-joy-joy


                          with "more heated than usual for him" phrases like:
                          I looked back at what I said and don't regret saying it. I'm happy to see people showing undaunted passion for whichever side of the issue they're on. I just think they can do it without being an ass to each other

                          Of course, I understand the level of frustration people are having. Because this is such an emotional topic, it's easy for our thinking to be hijacked by our monkey brains. Our arguments seem perfectly logical and unquestionable to us, so we're bewildered when other people don't see the "obviousness" of what we're saying. This leads to a lot of frustration and the tendency to see other people as clueless. Then we start treating them with less respect.

                          I praised Matapule's work in the Peace Corpse back in post #224. He's done more to help others than most of us. I just wouldn't want to hug him in this tread.


                          Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                          Babies having babies having crackhead babies having crackhead babies
                          I've played with the idea of treating human reproduction as a privilege that needs to be earned and maintained, instead of a right, BUT that opens up a WHOLE can of ethical problems.


                          Originally posted by matapule View Post
                          It is interesting that the gun nut shooter in Aurora CO acquired his guns legally and was subject to a background check. That did not prevent his massacre in the movie theater. The point is that more rigorous firearm licensing will not prevent these tragedies from occurring again. Statistically and historically the only thing that will minimize gun violence is a total ban on firearms.
                          There's also a ban on the manufacture of illegal narcotics, but that hasn't stopped the drug trade (and perhaps even raises their profits). But I do think a ban will keep guns out of the hands of random mass shooters (who the public is more afraid of), though not organized criminals (which the public doesn't care about as long as they only shoot each other).


                          Originally posted by GregLee View Post
                          There is an obvious remedy, though it is unconstitutional. Suppress all mention of the massacres in the press (and discussion on web forums).
                          I think it's important that people are aware of these significant events and can discuss/debate/argue about them. To modify your idea, perhaps a suppression on the killer's name/picture. Take some of the glory out of it. Refer to them as "Loser" with an embarrassing picture.

                          Of course enforcement (as with all laws) might be problematic. You might be able to apply pressure to traditional media sources, but it could be difficult keeping it off of social media. People will dig up pictures of the killer and spread it. Supply will be there to serve the demand. People are fascinated by pictures and details of the killer, because they think it'll help them ID other potential killers.


                          Originally posted by matapule View Post
                          A person who produced a popular YouTube Channel for gun advocates, has apparently committed suicide at his home. Even though he was a gun nut and should not have owned any guns since they proved the means to his demise, I mourn the death of anyone who is a victim of gun violence. May he find the peace in eternity that he could not attain with his guns here.
                          Are you truly mourning his death, or are you drooling over more blood to fuel your agenda?


                          Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                          Nothing more to be said.
                          Actually, we can criticize Mr. Nugent's lack of trigger-finger discipline. Also, for mexican carrying without a proper inside-the-waist-band holster to guard the trigger. I'd hate to see premature discharge leading to a accidental negligent discharge.

                          Mr. Nugent knows what upsets people and likes to ruffle feathers.
                          "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
                          "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
                          "
                          Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

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                          • Re: Gun Control

                            Every Nation I could find that had implemented strict gun control had more killings/and or/massacres after the restrictions than before, except Australia.

                            One nation out of some 200 with strict laws, and things got worse.

                            We need to study Australia, and find out what they did differently. Obviously banning guns is not enough, in fact it is counterproductive! It's the handbook definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

                            USA gun bans in the 1800's, the 1920's-30's, the 1965 ban, the Assault Weapons Ban, NONE of them have had ANY effect on stopping killings, some have accelerated killings!

                            What did Australia do differently? What can we learn from them?
                            Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                            ~ ~
                            Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                            Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                            Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Gun Control

                              I would think that a sense of self control would take that

                              finger off the trigger.

                              Human emotions often supersede wisdom.

                              Keep throwing those typewriters around.

                              Aim carefully.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Gun Control

                                Murder statistics: www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html

                                Its nice to see that Honolulu and San Diego are among the safest cities regarding murder, but its a little surprising to see NYC and San Francisco and El Paso in the list, too, especially El Paso considering all the violence right across the border in Ciudad Juarez.
                                Last edited by Kalalau; January 12, 2013, 03:57 AM.

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