Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

[glossyp]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

But some of the real questions that need to be answered are more profound than whether or not Kauai wants the Superferry to visit. Does a county in our nation as presently constituted have the right to block a legal mode of transportation?

What about the concept that freedom of movement is a basic tenet of American commerce? Waioli Kai got all frothy-mouthed claiming that there could be absolutely nothing but nightmarish horrors if the Superferry runs and no good could come of it. What about the numerous farmers (and other local manufacturers) who would benefit from being able to get their goods to markets on Oahu and Maui easily and inexpensively? They could sell their crops for a tidy profit and literally plow the earnings into expanding their farms, growing more crops and helping to provide a more sustainable environment.

Earlier I commented on the apparent fear of the homeless and indigent moving to Kauai. I thought about it further and wondered if some of the working homeless here on Oahu might not thrive on Kauai or Maui and should they not have the chance to move there if they can? Moving on to greener pastures via the ocean is a historic route humankind has taken to improve their lot in life. And frankly, I seriously doubt that many indigent and homeless are looking to move to Kauai. Life would be even harder for them there than it is here.

I certainly don't have answers to these questions, but I do know that the near-hysterical reactionary mode that some people are indulging in does no good. I want to see the HSF operate and look forward to riding it someday. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they don't sail away before too long.

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

It might hurt tourism
they don't seem to be wanted
not if they're going to get
Not necessarily.
If companies
and if they understand
then if they really want
If you are only

IF the state put the SuperFerry issue to a public vote of all residents, PROBABLY the majority vote would support the SuperFerry. In a democracy, majority rules. End of story.

[waioli kai]

John Lehman et. al's Hawaii $uperfascUSt ferry

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\quote=Miulang=== "Your Governor is now saying this whole thing is making the State look bad. And every news story that hits the newswire and gets published in places like the NYT does make the State look foolish. " === /quote

The HSF, Inc Superferry investors like John Lehman et. al want their superfascUSt ferry to play in the national news. They think it makes them look like the wronged party!! And indeed that's the way their mainland-minded media plays it. They want Lingle and the State to look like fools (though of course the real fools are HSF, Inc.) ! And indeed their media does make Lingle and the State look like fools.
What's going on now on the mainland about HSF, Inc.'s supperferry being wronged is the same media hype these same mainland/anti-Kamehameha Schools tried to get going with their USA Today garbage when 9th Circuit Court was considering en banc the KS admissions policy. The people of Hawaii are being played for fool and few of them know it or even care.

[craig foo]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

It appears that you overlooked that the question was whether Oahu or Kauai is more self-sufficient.
Think stockpiles and storage.

But this thread is about the SuperFerry. If you want to continue your "My island is better than your island" nonsense, try starting a new thread.

Your the one talking my island is better than your island nonsense. Each island is what it is, there is something very good about each one. Someone else brought this self-sufficiency issue up and you chose to field it and throw it to me. If you think it is off topic once you loose control of it so be it, but don't start berating Kauai residents again if you are serious about stopping "Me betta than you stuff".

[craig foo]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

IF the state put the SuperFerry issue to a public vote of all residents, PROBABLY the majority vote would support the SuperFerry. In a democracy, majority rules. End of story.

Had the Nazi of Germany put it to a vote about the extermination of the communists, gypsys, Jews, Slavs and Russians a majority German vote would have permitted that too. Popular electoral vote majorities do not guarantee that an outcome is moral, just and right. Have a look at the Bush and Cheney regime....or better yet, save the look for a look back ten years from now and try to say, "It was all good!"

[Miulang]

Re: John Lehman et. al's Hawaii $uperfascUSt ferry

.

\quote=Miulang=== "Your Governor is now saying this whole thing is making the State look bad. And every news story that hits the newswire and gets published in places like the NYT does make the State look foolish. " === /quote

The HSF, Inc Superferry investors like John Lehman et. al want their superfascUSt ferry to play in the national news. They think it makes them look like the wronged party!! And indeed that's the way their mainland-minded media plays it. They want Lingle and the State to look like fools (though of course the real fools are HSF, Inc.) ! And indeed their media does make Lingle and the State look like fools.
What's going on now on the mainland about HSF, Inc.'s supperferry being wronged is the same media hype these same mainland/anti-Kamehameha Schools tried to get going with their USA Today garbage when 9th Circuit Court was considering en banc the KS admissions policy. The people of Hawaii are being played for fool and few of them know it or even care.

Not all of the reporting on CONUS about HSF is 100% pro-HSF. Some of it actually is pretty balanced (although, obviously, the pro-HSF viewpoint gets the lead). And then you got Seattle station KOMO clearly being for the protestors.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

If the Nazi of Germany had put it to a vote about the extermination of the communists, gypsys, Jews, Slavs and Russians a majority German vote would have permitted that too. Popular electoral vote majorities do not guarantee that an outcome is moral, just and right. Have a look at the Bush and Cheney regime....or better yet, save the look for a look back ten years from now and try to say, "It was all good!"

Sad thing is, the people of Hawai'i can't even legally vote on this issue because there's no initiative or referendum process in the current Hawai'i State Constitution. So all you have are unofficial straw polls which don't hold water at all legally.

Miulang

[waioli kai]

Re: John Lehman et. al's Hawaii $uperfascUSt ferry

Not all of the reporting on CONUS about HSF is 100% pro-HSF. Some of it actually is pretty balanced (although, obviously, the pro-HSF viewpoint gets the lead).
Miulang

That balanced part would make for interesting read. Talk about an elephant in the room, this superferry pill being forced down everyone's throat must be how all those young and vibrant Latin Americandemocracies felt when Kissinger, Lehman, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Negroponte, Pearle, Wolfowitz and that gang were overthrowing populist democracies like at a pancake funraiser. Surely it can be no small coincidence that it is the same cabal at work on populist governments of the world today?

[craig foo]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Sad thing is, the people of Hawai'i can't even legally vote on this issue because there's no initiative or referendum process in the current Hawai'i State Constitution. So all you have are unofficial straw polls which don't hold water at all legally.

Miulang

The State doesn't have initiative, referendum and recalls in their election laws but some county election laws do.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

It is funny how people forget history ? What happened when Iniki hit in 1992 ?

Next time if a hurricane hits Kauai hopefully no one will be sending emergency supplies there. You guys can survive on your own, eh ?

Hehe... That would be the day.

After Iwa hit Kauai, 10 years prior to Iniki, the Navy had to send over a nuke sub to literally give Kauai a jump start. The sub had to energize the powerplant's dynamos before they could generate electricity. Without that outside help, Kauai would have been left in the dark until some other power source could be shipped over.

The anti-military/anti-technology types didn't reject THAT boat. A nuclear-powered warship specifically designed to deal out silent death, no less!

Any community slammed by a natural disaster needs outside help. Because these disasters, whether they're hurricanes, earthquakes or tsunamis, leave towns without infrastructure and resources. Neighboring communities then come to the rescue -- unless they're openly rejected upon arrival. And that's just DUMB!

[mel]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

....I'm just presenting how someplace else has done it (for good or bad). It's up to YOU guys to change things if you want change. I can't do diddly about it. In my line of work as an analyst, it's important to gather as many alternatives as possible before selecting a solution.........

(blah blah blahs stripped)

Miulang

Now I get it... ANAL-yst from afar. A non taxpaying ex-Hawaii resident who plays armchair quarterback in Hawaii affairs from far, far, far away. A pain in the a**.... ANALyst.

With all of this resistance to the Superferry from hostile neighbor islanders and wanna-be anti-ferry sympathizers from thousands of miles afar, I think it would be prudent perhaps of Hawaii Superferry to look into selling to the highest bidder from out of state or country. The vessel is a beautiful, brand new ship that the minority has dictated for the majority of Hawaii residents and business people that it should not be here.

Then so be it. Let Hawaii have a bigger black eye and forever seal this state's miserable business reputation as one of the worst ever. Thanks environmental wackos. Thanks dysfunctional Supreme Court. Thanks rude and rabid Kauaians. And all of you anti-ferry sympathizers. You know not what you do.

Superferry was a fantastic alternative that may forever sail away. That is what the vocal minority wants and I guess that is what they will probably get.

I hope I am proven wrong on this, but it seems to be heading that way.

Thanks for nothing.

[helen]

Re: turning the table on Oahu/U.S. fascUSts, HI demockratic food chain

And I think that most of Hawaii's who is laughing at Kauai's protesters don't get our point--we're not completely opposed to the Super Ferry. We're just asking Linda to obey laws and get an EIS done.

I think some people are willing to wait for the EIS to get done. But even after it is done would it satisify the people who was protesting the SuperFerry on other grounds?

[waioli kai]

eulogy, thoroughly humorous and welcomed

$uperfeuloUSgy, thoroughly humorous and welcomed

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\quote=mel=== " With all of this resistance to the Superferry from hostile neighbor islanders and wanna-be anti-ferry sympathizers from thousands of miles afar, I think it would be prudent perhaps of Hawaii Superferry to look into selling to the highest bidder from out of state or country. The vessel is a beautiful, brand new ship that the minority has dictated for the majority of Hawaii residents and business people that it should not be here.

Then so be it. Let Hawaii have a bigger black eye and forever seal this state's miserable business reputation as one of the worst ever. Thanks environmental wackos. Thanks dysfunctional Supreme Court. Thanks rude and rabid Kauaians. And all of you anti-ferry sympathizers. You know not what you do.

Superferry was a fantastic alternative that may forever sail away. That is what the vocal minority wants and I guess that is what they will probably get.

I hope I am proven wrong on this, but it seems to be heading that way.

Thanks for nothing. =/quote

Thanks for a fresh, ingenuous, succinct, thoroughly humorous and welcomed eulogy.

[mel]

Re: turning the table on Oahu/U.S. fascUSts, HI demockratic food chain

I think some people are willing to wait for the EIS to get done. But even after it is done would it satisify the people who was protesting the SuperFerry on other grounds?

Some people can wait for the EA / EIS to be done. But since it will be a long process, the Superferry cannot wait, sitting at the dock and not generating revenue. If the courts rule that they must wait until after the EA is done, then you can almost bet Superferry will sail away to friendlier waters away from Hawaii and further seal our state's rotten reputation as the worst place in the U.S. to do business.

[mel]

Re: eulogy, thoroughly humorous and welcomed

$uperfeuloUSgy, thoroughly humorous and welcomed ...... (snipped)

What in hell is that noise????