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  • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    Can't believe I voted for Bush.

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    • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

      Originally posted by kamuelakea View Post
      I agree it is time for real Hawaiians, Native Hawaiians, 50% Hawaiians to "put their money where their mouth is" and start to get things done the American way.......... VIOLENCE.

      Yes, I am suggesting that civil disobedience should start. Shut down the airport, shut down Waikiki. Then in the long run, whatever it takes.
      I see great Mana in Kamuelakea.

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      • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

        The Akaka Bill was approved today with no changes by the House Natural Resources Committee. The next step is for the bill to be placed on the full House agenda. A similar bill is pending before the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, which has a hearing scheduled tomorrow.

        Miulang
        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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        • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

          Nobody should hold their breath on this bill. According to a Breaking News item at this link on the Advertiser website:

          Bush administration 'strongly opposes' Akaka bill

          "The Bush administration "strongly opposes" a bill to create a process for a future Native Hawaiian government because it would divide governmental power along lines of race and ethnicity, a Justice Department official said today.
          "The administration believes that tribal recognition is inappropriate and unwise for Native Hawaiians," Gregory G. Katsas, principal associate attorney general for the Justice Department, said in a prepared statement to the Senate Indian Affairs Committee."


          Much more at the link above.

          .
          .

          That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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          • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

            Just wait for the next administration, perhaps the political climate will change. However, I wonder if folks who support the Akaka Bill realize giving native Hawaiians the same rights as native Americans would effectively spell the end of any independence movement?

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            • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

              There are two ways of looking at this: one, if the Akaka Bill passes, at least it preserves the programs that already exist for the kanaka maoli as opposed to taking more away from them; two, if it doesn't pass, then the sovereignty people continue their battle for full independence from the US.

              If both the full House and Senate pass their respective bills, then it would set up another potential veto by the President, who, BTW, will probably veto a bill that just passed the House (and probably will pass in the Senate), making crimes based on sexual orientation violations of the Civil Rights Act. (So I guess the White House is against minorities, period).

              Miulang
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

              Comment


              • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

                Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                There are two ways of looking at this: one, if the Akaka Bill passes, at least it preserves the programs that already exist for the kanaka maoli as opposed to taking more away from them; two, if it doesn’t pass, then the sovereignty people continue their battle for full independence from the US.
                You are making a big assumption, Miulang, that Senator Akaka will give up his fight if the bill doesn't pass. Surely, he will do his best to convince fellow Dems on Capitol Hill to give him another chance once a Dem is in the Oval Office. (And yes, I don’t think the GOP can field a winning candidate for the ‘08 Presidential Election, but I realize it is early)

                We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                USA TODAY, page 2A
                11 March 1993

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                • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

                  Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                  You are making a big assumption, Miulang, that Senator Akaka will give up his fight if the bill doesn't pass. Surely, he will do his best to convince fellow Dems on Capitol Hill to give him another chance once a Dem is in the Oval Office. (And yes, I don’t think the GOP can field a winning candidate for the ‘08 Presidential Election, but I realize it is early)
                  Even if the Akaka Bill passes, I doubt the sovereignty movement will go away. I don't like the watered down Akaka Bill, either, but not for the reasons that most people who are against it are. I think the original Akaka Bill would have given parity to the kanaka maoli more than this current version does; right now if this bill passed, it would give the kanaka maoli fewer rights than the ones the Native American tribes have via their treaties, so the kanaka maoli would only preserve what they currently have but get no more, and they do deserve more than what they are getting now.

                  Miulang
                  "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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                  • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

                    *snort*

                    A toothless dog cain't bite.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

                      I think the original Akaka Bill would have given parity to the kanaka maoli

                      I have asked before, and I will ask again....

                      What is IT that naturally prevents kanaka maoli from attaining parity??

                      I would never presume that any of my Hawaiian friends are incapable. In fact, I really can't figure out who we are talking about?? Maybe if I had an example to work with, that would help.

                      Miulang, can you tell me about some of the Hawaiians, that you know, who are so incapable of living their lives, that government assistance is the only answer for them.

                      I ask these questions with the utmost respect, and curiosity.
                      FutureNewsNetwork.com
                      Energy answers are already here.

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                      • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

                        um, could it possibly be the theft of their Nation?

                        Suggest that anyone who questions the "independence" issue take the time to read Tom Coffman's book "Nation Within". or even, for those of you with short attention spans - rent the video. It was filmed for a PBS show a couple of years ago.

                        Then, maybe - those of you with questions can come back with some that make sense. Rather than just asking questions "with the utmost respect, and curiosity" which is somewhat condescending. Of course, I'm saying this with the utmost respect to those of you non-Hawaiians who seem to be doing most of the questioning.
                        "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
                        – Sydney J. Harris

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                        • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

                          Okay, anapuni, since you are the first person to actually attempt to answer that stinging question, then I say thank you.

                          But I am not making the connection between an event that took place 120 years ago, and the affect that event has on a person's life today. Are you trying to say that event negatively affects a kid's performance in school today? Or negatively affects a person's ability to hold a job?

                          And what is IT, specifically, that causes the overthrow event to harm Hawaiians, while not harming other races that were living in Hawaii at the same time? And how come there are so many Hawaiians who own their homes, work for a living, have wonderful, bright children, and lives filled with love and good times? How do you explain that?

                          It's been over 100 years. How long will you need the help? WHO NEEDS THE HELP?? And whatever happened to the notion of personal pride? Handouts are not the path to high self-esteem.

                          It's clear to me that I don't get it. It is also clear to me that nobody on this forum has been able to explain it clearly, or logically. You must answer some of these tough questions to legitimize the 'poor me' argument that this thread is based upon.

                          The pedigree of you mom and dad simply doesn't matter. That is a tough pill to swallow in place that clings to a false ego-mania rooted in anachronistic nationalism.
                          FutureNewsNetwork.com
                          Energy answers are already here.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

                            Sure, some kanaka maoli families have managed to climb out of a hole that was dug for them in 1898. But per capita, there are more economically struggling kanaka maoli families than other families. Why is that? You yourself have said that the kanakas are as smart as everyone else. So what is holding them back?

                            You didn't live in Hawai'i pre-1970s when kanaka high school kids were all thought of as being bad (they were the ones who were troublemakers and who smoked in the lavs, we were told); you didn't live in Hawai'i when the Hawaiian language was not something that was taught formally anywhere and was only learned at the feet of kupuna. And we're not talking about something that only happened 100 years ago. As recently as the 1970s this was still going on.

                            What do you mean, kanakas don't have pride? They have been able to hold on to the pride they have as being the first settlers of Hawai'i throughout all the times when they were pushed into the background by others who came after them. But did they rise up and massacre any of the interlopers? No. On the contrary, they welcomed all newcomers into their homes, shared their food and friendship. And what did they get? Relegation to the back of the bus for their hospitality.

                            Why do the current Native Hawaiian programs exist? They exist so that those who need the extra help to get out of the socioeconomic holes they were put in by America can avail themselves of services they could not otherwise afford. Those who don't need the help won't ask for it, but there are still enough kanaka families who haven't quite made it over the huge chasm that developed over the years.

                            I don't know why you're so worried about sovereignty, Tim. You already "bought" your land...you've got your piece of paradise. Even in a sovereign country, you would not be tossed out on your okole.

                            Miulang
                            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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                            • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

                              Socioeconomic holes exist for folks of many different races.

                              But per capita, there are more economically struggling kanaka maoli families than other families. Why is that? You yourself have said that the kanakas are as smart as everyone else. So what is holding them back?

                              Perhaps it is their race that is holding them back. That would be the premise based upon your desire for racially exclusive entitlement. I do not agree with that, but what other logic do you have to defend your stance.

                              What do you mean, kanakas don't have pride?

                              I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

                              But did they rise up and massacre any of the interlopers?

                              Only Kamehameha is allowed to massacre people, and be a hero for it.

                              Sovereignty doesn't bother me at all. It's imaginary. If you want to help the disadvantaged, I'm all for it. But if you only want to help SOME of the disadvantaged, and you base the criteria upon race, then you have made an enemy. Racism is dying slowly. Get over it.
                              FutureNewsNetwork.com
                              Energy answers are already here.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

                                Originally posted by timkona View Post
                                Socioeconomic holes exist for folks of many different races.

                                But per capita, there are more economically struggling kanaka maoli families than other families. Why is that? You yourself have said that the kanakas are as smart as everyone else. So what is holding them back?

                                Perhaps it is their race that is holding them back. That would be the premise based upon your desire for racially exclusive entitlement. I do not agree with that, but what other logic do you have to defend your stance.

                                What do you mean, kanakas don't have pride?

                                I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

                                But did they rise up and massacre any of the interlopers?

                                Only Kamehameha is allowed to massacre people, and be a hero for it.

                                Sovereignty doesn't bother me at all. It's imaginary. If you want to help the disadvantaged, I'm all for it. But if you only want to help SOME of the disadvantaged, and you base the criteria upon race, then you have made an enemy. Racism is dying slowly. Get over it.
                                Sorry Tim. Racism will always exist in some form or other. America will never be the utopia you and others who have drunk that Kool-Aid would like for it to be. Maybe there will be true equality on that new planet they think could support life outside our solar system (where everybody really would start as equals because there would be no historical baggage to carry around, until the second generation of settlers, anyway). It's very easy to talk about "equality" when you're in the majority (not in the case of Hawai'i, in your instance, but in the case of the entire USA).

                                Miulang

                                P.S. are you raising your daughter to believe that she is no better or no worse than any of her classmates?
                                Last edited by Miulang; May 5, 2007, 10:02 AM.
                                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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