Statehood Day Holiday

[anapuni808]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Here is another informative site:

http://www.opihi.com/sovereignty/

[Jewlipino]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Statehood was/is a good thing. Turning back time is impossible. If Senator Slom and Mr. Burgess wanted to celebrate statehood they should have been able to do it without harassment. The activist community could have/should have protested in ways that did not include being unconscionably rude. I sincerely hope that there will NEVER be sovereignty in my lifetime if these are the people who will benefit, at this point I'm even against tribal recognition, hell Hawaiians aren't Indians so why are they trying to make Indian treaties fit them?!

Jewlipino

[1stwahine]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Statehood was/is a good thing. Turning back time is impossible. If Senator Slom and Mr. Burgess wanted to celebrate statehood they should have been able to do it without harassment. The activist community could have/should have protested in ways that did not include being unconscionably rude. I sincerely hope that there will NEVER be sovereignty in my lifetime if these are the people who will benefit, at this point I'm even against tribal recognition, hell Hawaiians aren't Indians so why are they trying to make Indian treaties fit them?!

Jewlipino

Ok People. Don't fall for his/her Bait. It's a Troll - Guarrans.

Heartless and Cruel to get everyone worked up for nuttin.

Auntie Lynn

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

hell Hawaiians aren't Indians so why are they trying to make Indian treaties fit them?!

Well, that was actually a point of some of the sovereignty groups, in their opposition to the Akaka Bill --- that they did not want the same status as Indian tribes; they wanted their independent nation back. (Yes, I realize that's an extreme simplification on my part.)

[Miulang]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

I sincerely hope that there will NEVER be sovereignty in my lifetime if these are the people who will benefit, at this point I'm even against tribal recognition, hell Hawaiians aren't Indians so why are they trying to make Indian treaties fit them?!

Jewlipino

Why are you so afraid of having an indigenous Hawaiian government in place? The UN has recognized the kanaka maoli as an indigenous people with a sovereign nation. Just because they don't refer to themselves as a "tribe" in the way that we refer to Native Americans, does not in any way mean that they should not be given the respect that should be given to the descendants of the first people to inhabit Hawai'i.

Yes, the Hawaiian activists might be a little misguided in the ways that they choose to make their point, but after having everything taken away from you and then for years and years being subjected to derision and having your needs ignored, hell yes, I'd be mad and frustrated enough to get into yelling matches with people who wanted to keep me oppressed. HOWEVER, why does it always have to be us v. them? When you treat people with respect, you can expect to get the same treatment in return. If you crap on people, then don't be surprised when they crap on you.

Miulang

[Jewlipino]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Ok People. Don't fall for his/her Bait. It's a Troll - Guarrans.

Heartless and Cruel to get everyone worked up for nuttin.

Auntie Lynn

I am NOT trolling. These are legitimate concerns of mine and my opinions are my own. If Hawaiians don't like being Americans, they should renounce their citizenship, leave and go off some place where I don't have to hear them whining about their lost country that they're never going to get back (not in my lifetime, I've decided to actively work against sovereignty, congratulations!). History happens. We've gone WAY too far to go back to the way it was. Regardless of what the US happens to call it, what happened to the Kingdom of Hawaii is conquest. How is it any different than how Kamehameha I united the islands? I can see it now, in the fairyland sovereignty activists live in they are finally granted their wishes..... then Maui secedes and declares war on the the reconstituted Kingdom of Hawaii. So strange that I started out an ally of the cause and this is where I wind up.

Jewlipino

[Jewlipino]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Yes, the Hawaiian activists might be a little misguided in the ways that they choose to make their point, but after having everything taken away from you and then for years and years being subjected to derision and having your needs ignored, hell yes, I'd be mad and frustrated enough to get into yelling matches with people who wanted to keep me oppressed. HOWEVER, why does it always have to be us v. them? When you treat people with respect, you can expect to get the same treatment in return. If you crap on people, then don't be surprised when they crap on you.

Miulang

Oh I tried the way of respect, in return I was called ignorant, foolish and a host of other names. I plan on returning the favor now. I don't want to oppress Hawaiians, I want them to stop asking for entitlements and give up the ones they have. If that means I have to pursue the elimination of OHA and dismantle Bishop Estate then SO BE IT. I started respectful, now I'm just dealing back some of what I got for being so naive in thinking that a discussion could be held about this topic without resorting to rhetoric or insults.

Jewlipino

[Miulang]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Oh I tried the way of respect, in return I was called ignorant, foolish and a host of other names. I plan on returning the favor now. I don't want to oppress Hawaiians, I want them to stop asking for entitlements and give up the ones they have. If that means I have to pursue the elimination of OHA and dismantle Bishop Estate then SO BE IT. I started respectful, now I'm just dealing back some of what I got for being so naive in thinking that a discussion could be held about this topic without resorting to rhetoric or insults.

Jewlipino

You don't have to work to eliminate OHA. It has recharted its course and set as one of its main goals (besides registering as many kanaka maoli as it can) to eventually work itself out of existence.

Miulang

P.S. I'm sorry if some people have thrown darts at you, but the strength of your character will be to look deep inside of you and think clearly about what this hatred you have now is going to accomplish to make anything better.

[1stwahine]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

You don't have to work to eliminate OHA. It has recharted its course and set as one of its main goals (besides registering as many kanaka maoli as it can) to eventually work itself out of existence.

Miulang

P.S. I'm sorry if some people have thrown darts at you, but the strength of your character will be to look deep inside of you and think clearly about what this hatred you have now is going to accomplish to make anything better.

Yeeehaaaa! Right on Tita Miulang!!!

Whoa, whoa, whoa, shoop shop shooby doo now Shoop shoop shooby down!

Auntie Lynn

[anapuni808]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Jewlipino - you have never sounded like an ally, from your first posting onward. You sounded like a Wm. Burgess/Ken Conklin clone. That is why I started posting the videos and links. If you feel you have been insulted or called names - that wasn't done by me. I have asked you questions and challenged you to educate yourself on issues BEFORE spouting off. The same as I will challenge anyone who comes across as uninformed about Independence issues. Well, I won't bother with several on here because they are just plain ignorant but with you I had hopes.

You will do whatever is in your heart and head and make your own choices. Best wishes to you.

[Jewlipino]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

All people are equal regardless of race, the best thing we can do is remove all race distinctions from society. I used to help out sovereignty activists that I knew, but I found that the ultimate result of attempting to address the overthrow was that an entitled class based on race had been created. Trying to make Native American Nation within a Nation work with the Hawaiians situation was a square peg in a round hole, the Hawaiian situation is so completely different...Plus the US promised so much more than "eternal friendship" to the Native Americans). I read the treaties between the US and the Kingdom, and there's a lot of diplomatic language that doesn't add up to much. So I had to stop helping and have to continue working against it as long as being Hawaiian is linked to the blood in your veins.

Jewlipino

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

I've decided to actively work against sovereignty

So, you plan to combat what you consider an extremist point-of-view with more extremism? I think you are too smart for that - smart enough to recognize that extremist perspectives lead to unresolved conflicts.

Perhaps you need to look beyond the sovereigntists who are at one end of the spectrum, since their view will never mesh with yours and they will always anger you. Explore some more, and you will find those who, although sovereignty is their ultimate goal, recognize that it will not be an easy path, and that the rights of those who came to Hawai`i generations ago will need to be part of the discussion and equation.

Not everyone takes an "all-or-nothing" approach. There is plenty of common ground to be explored in between.

(And thank you, admin, for NOT closing this thread.)

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

I am NOT trolling. These are legitimate concerns of mine and my opinions are my own. If Hawaiians don't like being Americans, they should renounce their citizenship, leave and go off some place where I don't have to hear them whining about their lost country that they're never going to get back (not in my lifetime, I've decided to actively work against sovereignty, congratulations!). History happens. We've gone WAY too far to go back to the way it was. Regardless of what the US happens to call it, what happened to the Kingdom of Hawaii is conquest. How is it any different than how Kamehameha I united the islands? I can see it now, in the fairyland sovereignty activists live in they are finally granted their wishes..... then Maui secedes and declares war on the the reconstituted Kingdom of Hawaii. So strange that I started out an ally of the cause and this is where I wind up.

Jewlipino

The U.S. is still accountable to comply with the laws of the United Nations as set forth in 1946 regarding nations absorbing other nations. Hawai'i qualified as a nation under the UN's definition. As the UN is still the governing international body which the US recognizes, supports and funds, then the US must obligate themselves to comply.

In 1959, the vote put to the people was illegal according to those same UN laws, because it did NOT offer Hawai'i's citizens its right--based on it being a nation as qualified under the UN--to revert to an independent nation. It was U.S. statehood, yes/no. Nothing about remaining as a US. Territory, nor reverting to the former governments of these isles, e.g. the Republic of Hawai'ï (horrors, an illegal govt from start to finish if there ever was one) or the Kingdom of Hawai'i or any of Hawai'i' other rightful options like creating a new commonwealth govt, for example.

Anti-sovereignty rhetoric is based in fear and derision towards the events of the 19th century. Blame the victim, it was Gilligan's Isle around these parts anyway, blah blah. Nobody really researching that that was so far from the case in these parts of the moana. Ignorance, fear and derision.

But it is the actions of the 20th century that requires accountability. The UN was created in 1946. Its laws stand today. The illegal vote took place in 1959. That means the statehood equation is beholden to the laws of the UN, and we must requires ourselves to understand that it is a DIFFERENT question of whether the US statehood status has been good for us or not, than the legality of being a US state, which is illegal. The former is where so many people have their emotional attachment rooted.

If you would like to take this discussion into fascinating areas, then let us stick to futuristic macro-economics of isle economies in the hereanafter. Because correcting reactions such as yours about

Hawaiians don't like being Americans, they should renounce their citizenship, leave and go off some place where I don't have to hear them whining about their lost country that they're never going to get back

gets really old after a while.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Anti-sovereignty rhetoric is based in fear and derision towards the events of the 19th century. Blame the victim, it was Gilligan's Isle around these parts anyway, blah blah. Nobody really researching that that was so far from the case in these parts of the moana. Ignorance, fear and derision.

Sounds similar to communist China's explanations for taking over Tibet --- "it was a horrible, backwards feudal state, where the evil monks held all the wealth, and wielded cruel power over the poor peasants...until we came along with liberation and education, reuniting them with the motherland."

I was going to apologize for heading off-topic, until I realized the similarities. Tibetans are now a minority in their own, formerly-sovereign nation, and their unique and distinct culture diminishes daily, ignored by a majority of the world's citizens.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

All people are equal regardless of race, the best thing we can do is remove all race distinctions from society. ... So I had to stop helping and have to continue working against it as long as being Hawaiian is linked to the blood in your veins.

Jewlipino

I think about this one a lot. Hawaiians are diluting down. We cannot help it. So I look to the N.A. up on CONUS. And this is what I see:

-enrolling is all about blood quantum. Many tribes are down to under 3K of 25%. Some wrestle with collating all NA bloods so that someone can be enrollable if their total NAness = 25%. To keep themselves unique, they cling to their bloodline, but this is an inevitability of dying out, because youth cannot control whom they love, and there will always be those who fall through the cracks because of paperwork.

Yet, how many folks who live across that continent have 1/16 or so NA? But they don't have enough™, so the struggle for them is to maintain their NAness when the tribe doesn't fully accept them because they aren't enough.

Then I see Aotearoa to the south. If you are maori, if you have a whakapapa that links you to your iwi, hapu, waka, awa, maunga, then you are maori. Nothing about blood quantum. A maori is a maori is a maori, even the blue-eyed blond haired maoris have the freedom to be a maori. And they laugh at us as we wrestle with learning our fractions and decimals based on our quantum. Their nation is an independent and free democracy. And the maori aren't of the luxury of being on the permanent government nipple, because they are only as apportioned as the health of the economy and resources oblige. They aren't about tax subsidy; each iwi owns its own land and natural resources and they are shared within the iwi. And unlike many NA tribes, maori iwi resources are rich in water, soil, geothermals. They can self-sustain.

I would rather envy the freedom of the maori model than that of the deficit model which is the American Native™ way. Screw that cycle.