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  • #31
    Re: Snowden/NSA

    Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
    Have we all been fooled by Snowden? Sounds like a bit of a flake, a loose cannon: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07...dward-snowden/
    I'm seeing lots of these efforts to discredit Snowden, as in this article:
    While I am certain that what he has reported is true, Iā€™m unsure of motivation.
    I just don't get this at all. What's the difference what his motivation is, or whether he is a noble and good person? If his report is true and it is something we needed to know and had a right to know, he did us a great service. If these commentators succeed in convincing us that Snowden is a complete jerk, does that mean it was okay to spy on us, after all? Of course not -- makes no sense.
    Greg

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    • #32
      Re: Snowden/NSA

      It is quite possible that snowden is a sacrificial sheep involving

      an internal power battle between nsa oni dia and other agencies.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Snowden/NSA

        He might be doing, "Do you know me" credit card commercials in a few years.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Snowden/NSA

          The question of motivation I guess does not really matter. On one hand the guy might have sold out national security and made protecting against additional 9 11s difficult or impossible and cost agents their lives or at least their covers, etc, based on some moral principles, and on the other hand he might have done it just because like so many white people he hates Obama, which is what the article made it sound like. I am coming to the regretful conclusion that the country just can't afford to have non white leadership, too many whites are too petty and hateful and spiteful and destructive, glad to take the whole ship of state down out of their hatred for non white leadership. No matter how competent the non white might be, America will only be satisfied with whites in power even if they are destructive incompetent idiots like Bush. Congress does not work any more basically because Obama is not white, and Snowden seems to be another example of a bitter white man eager to sacrifice the national security just to vent his hatred of a non white president. Sad. Its not a firm conclusion yet but thats the way things seem to look as of now.

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          • #35
            Re: Snowden/NSA

            Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
            he might have done it just because like so many white people he hates Obama, (...) No matter how competent the non white might be, America will only be satisfied with whites in power even if they are destructive incompetent idiots like Bush. Congress does not work any more basically because Obama is not white,

            Speak for yourself. I'm more concerned that Obama is anti-freedom, unconstitutionally oriented, a socialist with communist leanings. I don't care about the color of his skin.
            Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
            ~ ~
            Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
            Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
            Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

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            • #36
              Re: Snowden/NSA

              And saving GM & Chrysler fits in to the socialist thing...? Maybe it does, I just can't imagine how. Anything Obama has done against the Constitution bush did a thousand times worse but bush is white. Can you even imagine the uproar if Obama "lost" $ 8 billion like bush did in Iraq? Poof! $ 8 billion just gone. Wow. But nobody cared. Oh a little bit. But bush is white. Not that made it OK, but if Obama as a non white lost $ 8 billion I have a feeling impeachment would be the least of his worries. Nailing Osama bin Laden was an expression of...what...his anti religious communist leanings maybe. Or maybe his islamist views. Just as sensible, really.
              People LOVE socialism! They LOVE their municipal golf courses, public beaches (it would be so easy to privatize them, making them public was a socialist idea from the early 20th century), people LOVE publicly owned water & sewer systems. Beware, there are moves afoot to privatize water systems. People LOVE social security and medicare, they love publicly owned roads. On and on.
              Last edited by Kalalau; July 8, 2013, 05:22 PM.

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              • #37
                Re: Snowden/NSA

                Snowden is asking Russia for asylum. I think that says something. Even though Russia has advanced tremendously since the days of Stalin it remains infinitely less free than the US even with gvt monitoring here. Daniel Ellsberg did not petition Communist China or North Vietnam for asylum after leaking the Pentagon Papers, he accepted his punishment, so did Dr. Martin Luther King and many other real heros. Blame? Snowden, of course, but also the US gvt for going off on this insane contracting thing, "oh private industry can always do it better and cheaper" and who needs background checks anyway, we can save money and cut taxes etc. How would Snowden have played back in the cold war days? Could he just be too young and too uneducated to know what real tyranny looks like?

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                • #38
                  Re: Snowden/NSA

                  Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                  Snowden is asking Russia for asylum. I think that says something. Even though Russia has advanced tremendously since the days of Stalin it remains infinitely less free than the US even with gvt monitoring here.
                  Yes, it says he doesn't want to wind up in a US prison. Russia is big enough and independent enough to tell the US to buzz off, if it isn't in the mood to send him back here to be tried and convicted. Why in the world would you think it has anything to do with how much personal freedom is allowed in Russia? I just don't understand the reasoning at all.
                  Greg

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                  • #39
                    Re: Snowden/NSA

                    Just the idea that if he thought having a few phone calls monitored was intrusive...well...I think he is in for a rude awakening. Prison sentences end, but life under a (not quite) tyranny just drags on and on. Russia seems always on the edge of a relapse into Stalinism. Maybe not quite that bad but it was no picnic under Khruschev or Brezhnev either. Also it shows a huge unrealistic streak, able to take refuge or seek refuge in a (not quite) totalitarian state while betraying one which while not perfect, by no means perfect, at least has the legal framework of being a liberal country. More than being a traitor, I think he's an idiot.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Snowden/NSA

                      Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                      Also it shows a huge unrealistic streak, able to take refuge or seek refuge in a (not quite) totalitarian state ...
                      If he successfully seeks refuge, he avoids US prison. If he doesn't get refuge, he goes to prison. How is he being unrealistic in seeking refuge? I still don't get what you're trying to say. I guess you don't like Russia very much, but do you really think his life in Russia, out of prison, will be worse than returning here and being in a US prison?

                      You seem to think that Snowden is somehow approving of the Russian social system by seeking asylum there, and I think that is silly. Snowden just doesn't want to go to prison.
                      Greg

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                      • #41
                        Re: Snowden/NSA

                        Kinda odd, in a real sucky way, that America (the land of asylum) is now asking every country to refuse Snowden asylum so they can get hold of and persecute him. Obama can go fuck himself, makes me wonder how BushCo would have dealt with it, even tho I know where Cheney The Dick is on it.
                        https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                        • #42
                          Re: Snowden/NSA

                          Let us remember that Hawaii has provided places of refuge.

                          The red tape of the desk jockeys should not

                          restrict the ability to sail.

                          The most revered ancestors of the nation were sailing away from Tahiti


                          to avoid political upheaval.
                          Master Mariners, their style of doing things worked.

                          Probably still does today.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Snowden/NSA

                            It is so weird for me to be in the position of defending the gvt on this issue. I think the gvt might have a legitimate point that limited monitoring of phone traffic can prevent another 9 11 and to borrow a phrase from Bush, the next one could involve a mushroom cloud. We don't want that. If it ever happens or anything even a little like it happens there will be loads of hand wringing and cries of why didn't we... This is weird for me because I supported Ellsberg and Wikileaks so far.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Snowden/NSA

                              Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                              I think the gvt might have a legitimate point that limited monitoring of phone traffic can prevent another 9 11 and to borrow a phrase from Bush, the next one could involve a mushroom cloud.
                              Well, sure. The need to respect our privacy and other civil liberties really does hamper the police. They could be more effective at catching bad guys if they didn't have to show cause to a judge before starting a wiretap. Is that all that counts? If government spying works, then it's okay with you?
                              Greg

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                              • #45
                                Re: Snowden/NSA

                                The reporter who Snowden leaked to, I believe named Greenwald, says Snowden has material that if released would be the US ultimate nightmare. Wow, the mind boggles. What could it be? Is Obama really a Kenyan Muslim socialist? Is it the cover of agents around the world? The location of secretly placed doomsday bombs around the world? He said the US should be on its knees praying that nothing happens to Snowden because if he dies that material gets released. Wow. Of course it could be empty hot air too. But I am curious as heck.

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