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  • Re: Rail Transit

    Ah, I see you've contradicted yourself again, you weren't done with senseless 'discussion' as stated in your post #958, despite now wishing to bend those words in some tortuous manner to mean something other than what they do. Whether it's my senseless discussion or your senseless discussion, it's still senseless discussion in which you are engaging.
    Last edited by salmoned; December 17, 2008, 03:00 PM.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

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    • Re: Rail Transit

      hi this is sansei and since i responded to this post,today while coming home on my moped, from beretania safeway till about where you'd hit queen's hospital,their was a bad trafficgridlock and it only moved after we passed queen's hospital so that is in my heart,that's good that we have rail only it should start not what charle's Djou want's only from the eva side to town and it should go through salt lake and to town so i thought to share this with everyone.

      well thanks for your time

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      • Re: Rail Transit

        Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
        To say that anything was last minute fails to take into account all the debate and delays that have taken place over the last several years.

        As for allegations of corruption, if it can be proven, then it should be prosecuted.
        Well, as far as I’m concerned, the delay that Sen. Colleen Hanabusa may cause with her attempt to corruptly raid the rail tax to balance the state budget is unconscionable. This is the same type of tactics that Republican Sen. Sam Slom has fought for decades. Stop raiding special funds! Use the funds for what they’re supposed to be used for, or return the money to the taxpayers. The rail tax isn't even a special fund. The only reason the state has their hand in it, is because the city lacks the accounting infrastructure to collect such a mammoth tax.

        What this comes down to is petty politics between Hanabusa and Caldwell. Now that Caldwell is no longer in the legislature, Hanabusa is posturing the way she postured to tip off Duke Bainum that Ann Kobayashi’s council seat would be opening up. The truth is out now. Kobayashi admitted in the mayoral debates she confided in and was being advised by Hanabusa. Connect the dots, people!
        Last edited by TuNnL; January 23, 2009, 06:53 PM. Reason: names

        We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

        — U.S. President Bill Clinton
        USA TODAY, page 2A
        11 March 1993

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        • Re: Rail Transit

          Thanks Tunnel! Well written.
          I agree with your assessment of the situation.
          And that money allocated for specific projects/programs needs to be used for them or put back from whence they came.
          Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

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          • Re: Rail Transit

            Originally posted by Menehune Man View Post
            Thanks Tunnel! Well written.
            I agree with your assessment of the situation.
            And that money allocated for specific projects/programs needs to be used for them or put back from whence they came.
            Agreed, in fact, Lingle's proposal to raise the gas tax and registration fees once the economy rebounds only makes sense if they prevent road funds from being routinely raided as well.

            But if the rail project does go through and the new gas/registration as well, we'll finally see some sense of a unified, transportation planning.

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            • Re: Rail Transit

              I would be kinda surprised if the rail project gets very far off the ground at this point. We're in the beginning stages of an economic depression. All the signs are there, and there is no escaping it this time. Building a rail transit is going to be the least of our worries. The project's history.

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              • Re: Rail Transit

                Originally posted by Bobinator View Post
                I would be kinda surprised if the rail project gets very far off the ground at this point. We're in the beginning stages of an economic depression. All the signs are there, and there is no escaping it this time. Building a rail transit is going to be the least of our worries. The project's history.
                In a speech in the last couple of days Obama specifically mentioned mass transit projects as part of the economic stimulus package. This, along with renewable energy and nationwide power grid projects. Makes sense to make the best use of available energy. And a mobile society is essential to an economically healthy society.

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                • Re: Rail Transit

                  Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                  In a speech in the last couple of days Obama specifically mentioned mass transit projects as part of the economic stimulus package. This, along with renewable energy and nationwide power grid projects. Makes sense to make the best use of available energy. And a mobile society is essential to an economically healthy society.
                  If Obama's proposal goes through, it won't kick in until 2010. By then, I'll be eating your cat.

                  Obama's stimulus plan will cost $217,000 to $275,000 per job that it will supposedly save or create. $5-10 Billion on our rail system to create a few hundred jobs or maybe a few thousand, doesn't sound like such a good idea. And those jobs will mostly be mainland jobs, not here, unless you know people who can put this thing together.

                  Technically, it isn't possible for the government to "stimulate" the economy. The only thing it can do is stay out of the way by lowering taxes and allow the free market to adjust.

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                  • Re: Rail Transit

                    hi this is sansei and i just heard that for the rail the council approved the rail to stop at The airport and not salt lake and im wondering how this is going to affect the salt lake resident's and not everyone else?

                    Well thank's for your time

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                    • Re: Rail Transit

                      Originally posted by Bobinator View Post
                      $5-10 Billion on our rail system to create a few hundred jobs or maybe a few thousand, doesn't sound like such a good idea. And those jobs will mostly be mainland jobs, not here, unless you know people who can put this thing together.

                      Technically, it isn't possible for the government to "stimulate" the economy. The only thing it can do is stay out of the way by lowering taxes and allow the free market to adjust.
                      As mentioned before, the rail system not only creates new jobs through the construction process but it also enables people who can't drive or can't afford to drive the mobility to get and keep jobs which are essential to our economy.

                      It won't require mainland workers to build a rail system. Local workers built the H3 highway system, although it required experts from the Mainland to supervise.

                      When gas was $4 a gallon, ridership on the Bus picked up significantly. When it hits $5 and more a rail system will be well used. I'd be willing to bet money on it.

                      While government might not be able to directly stimulate the economy, and that's certainly arguable, it can create the conditions in which the economy can flourish. Just as the previous administration created conditions in which the economy crashed. The cost of creating jobs (where did those numbers come from?) have to be offest by how much revenue the jobs create over a period of time. If it's $200,000 to create a job that generates $50,000 a year, doesn't it pay for itself in four years?

                      There's a movement right now to push our country toward being 100% reliant upon clean energy in 10 years. www.repoweramerica.org It's the 21st Century version of Kennedy's goal of landing man on the moon in 10 years. Rail transit is a big step toward that goal: Move thousands of people without relying on cars. Fewer internal combustion engines running on the highways. Less carbon added to the atmosphere. Less gas burned. Run the rail system on renewable energy sources.

                      All this has to start somewhere. To insist "it can't be done" just pushes us further into the ecological and strategic disasters in which we're already knee deep. What we're doing right now, driving gas-powered cars, is not sustainable.

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                      • Re: Rail Transit

                        For those who don't take the need for energy independence seriously enough, check out what Russia is up to. Putin has a very firm grasp of the concept of the strategic importance of energy supplies and is making moves to consolidate whatever he can for his country.

                        http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/wo..._r=1&th&emc=th

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                        • Re: Rail Transit

                          Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                          the rail system not only creates new jobs through the construction process
                          Creates jobs, but I question how much it will help residents. All those people laid off by Aloha and NCL, etc are suddenly to become construction workers? I kinda doubt it. Unless we slow the project down, we don't have enough workers to do it all. Given the size of the project, I think it's more likely it will attract experienced workers from the mainland which has areas where the unemployment rate is even higher than ours.


                          Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                          Rail transit is a big step toward that goal: Move thousands of people without relying on cars. Fewer internal combustion engines running on the highways. Less carbon added to the atmosphere. Less gas burned. Run the rail system on renewable energy sources.
                          I still think everyone is chasing the wrong power source. Solar thermal may have some promise, but there's some huge problems with Solar PV. I think the answer is biofuels. And biofuels work nicely in diesel engines.

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                          • Re: Rail Transit

                            Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                            Creates jobs, but I question how much it will help residents. All those people laid off by Aloha and NCL, etc are suddenly to become construction workers? I kinda doubt it. Unless we slow the project down, we don't have enough workers to do it all. Given the size of the project, I think it's more likely it will attract experienced workers from the mainland which has areas where the unemployment rate is even higher than ours.
                            I think you're discounting the people laid off by Hawaiian Dredging or other local construction firms? Most of the condo projects have more or less been completed and no new ones are starting up soon. That's people seeing their work reduced or dry up.

                            Oh and let's not forget trickle down effect. Say you do end up hiring a construction worker from the mainland. That person is not going to be flying back and forth every day to work. That person will probably rent a place here, use services here, buy goods, etc. The store or the service provider in turn gets much needed revenue, enabling to retain or maybe requiring to hire more employees which could end up being ex Aloha, NCL folks.
                            Last edited by joshuatree; January 29, 2009, 05:36 AM. Reason: added comment

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                            • Re: Rail Transit

                              Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                              I think you're discounting the people laid off by Hawaiian Dredging or other local construction firms? Most of the condo projects have more or less been completed and no new ones are starting up soon. That's people seeing their work reduced or dry up.
                              Yes, those people will be greatly helped. But is it enough? Or is this project so big that the local labor market can't fulfill it?



                              Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                              Say you do end up hiring a construction worker from the mainland.
                              You end up increasing the population of the island, which only makes things worse. And then what happens when the project ends? Most likely you end up with the construction industry begging for more projects. That can't be good. Construction is not a sustainable industry.

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                              • Re: Rail Transit

                                Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                                You end up increasing the population of the island, which only makes things worse. And then what happens when the project ends? Most likely you end up with the construction industry begging for more projects. That can't be good. Construction is not a sustainable industry.
                                You're assuming the imported construction worker decides to stay after the job. Which may happen or as in the previous decade, many left for construction work in Vegas. At the same time, there's no reason why the ex-Aloha, NCL employee can't move abroad either. Cities grow and shrink with worker migration all the time.

                                The construction industry is like any industry, each one always wants more work. This project isn't done for the sake of the construction industry, it's a needed infrastructure to supporters like me. If there's another needed project after this one, good for them, if not, they will contract. Just like the tourist industry is contracting right now. But this rail project now has double value because it will put in place valuable infrastructure and serve as en economic engine while the tourist engine sputters along till recovery.

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