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Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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  • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
    Don't think the facilities for HSF were specifically built for them either. The pier facility on Oahu had been completed for years, in hopes of a ferry like HSF would utilize it. And supposedly if another ferry came to town, I believe these same facilities are to be made available to them. Look, I don't mind an EA or EIS but what's good for the goose is good for gander. It would really be interesting to see how Matson/YB/NCL fare in an EIS assessment.
    I disagree, the 40 million dollars in Hawaii taxpayer funds is being used to build harbor infrastructure for HSF's exclusive use. The pier facility you
    mention was originally built for the cruise ship service, not exclusively for one company. That being said, if HSF built the harbor infrastructure without
    Hawaii taxpayer money, this all would be moot.

    In short there is no legal reason why NCL/YB/Matson should be required to do a EIS. But there is strong legal reasons why a EIS/EA should've been
    done for HSF.

    The Star Bulletin has a op-ed which supports my argument.
    Check out my blog on Kona issues :
    The Kona Blog

    Comment


    • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

      I tried to post this earlier, but the board was frozen for some reason.

      Originally posted by Sprite View Post
      Honolulu to Maui... 3 hrs! So, if you decide you want to go joy riding, you need to figure on at least eight hours or so. Can you walk all around the ferry or are you pretty restricted? Must take airplane back... unless they have WIFI! Yo, Adrian, will Clear Wire work on the SF?

      Just thinking and wondering. Oh, and are they wheel chair accessible? Mom wants to do the boat thing and most of our lunch/dinner cruisy things don't do wheelchairs. Is that an ADA violation? Not sure.

      Hmmm... suddenly this joy ride got expensive!
      Yes, with the upgrade it can be expensive... but remember this, it is probably as cheap as it will be with this introductory promo fare.

      But just by taking a tour of the ferry last month, I can see that the $20 upgrade to first class is worth it more than an upgrade to first class would be on an inter-island airline flight. You are going to be on the ship for 3 hours each way. Would be nice to get the whole run of the passenger deck instead of being blocked 2/3 the way through.

      The only thing that I am uncertain about is the legal cloud and possible action the court could hurl at the Superferry on Monday, possibly shutting down the operation to accommodate the environmental wackos. Hopefully that won't happen.

      For that reason I am not going to make a reservation since I don't want to deal with refunds.

      If you take your computer, be sure to bring your AC cord and perhaps a power strip onboard with you. Our own PZ found power outlets near some tables and seats where you can plug in. I don't know about wifi. Can't remember if they had that or not. Someone please tell us if you do ride.

      And if you are not a sports fan, you may want to being one of those portable DVD players along and plug that in. I am sure most of the overhead TV's will be plugged into some football game, especially if anyone is traveling tomorrow.

      On another note, long ago when I worked for an ad agency in the 1990s, we did one of those Port Hawaii booklets. It had plans for upcoming developments for all of the harbors. In Honolulu there was a plan to build a ferry terminal long before Superferry ever came into being. This would have been funded through the regular process of DOT appropriations that they get from the legislature, much like how it is now.

      In so far as the EIS or EA or whatever goes, then if that is required only for Superferry, then it should be strictly for the harbor facility and not for whale avoidance, the possible spread of invasive species or drug trafficking. All of this can be done without the Superferry. The only thing that harbor improvements might bring in the case of the Superferry is increased vehicular traffic.

      Which reminds me, the intersection to/from pier 19 to Nimitz will probably need a traffic light installed in the near future.

      Still I believe that singling out only the Superferry to comply with some EIS or EA is still unfair as the rest of the commercial maritime industry has never been subjected to this.
      Last edited by mel; August 25, 2007, 09:14 AM. Reason: fix typo
      I'm still here. Are you?

      Comment


      • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

        Originally posted by mel View Post
        I
        Still I believe that singling out only the Superferry to comply with some EIS or EA is still unfair as the rest of the commercial maritime industry has never been subjected to this.
        If HSF used their own money instead of taxpayer funds to build the harbor infrastructure for their exclusive use, a EIS/EA would not be necessary.
        Check out my blog on Kona issues :
        The Kona Blog

        Comment


        • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

          Originally posted by mel View Post

          Still I believe that singling out only the Superferry to comply with some EIS or EA is still unfair as the rest of the commercial maritime industry has never been subjected to this.
          And I keep trying to tell you guys that there IS an EIS for all harbor users of Kahului Harbor that is being done right now by HDOT. So you can stop yammering about how the whackos are singling out HSF for an EIS. The most critical issue is not the whales; it's the traffic mitigation in the Kahului area and the use of the port facilities over the next few years that has Maui County most worried. Tomorrow's trip to Maui might not be too bad for people who drive their cars because it'll be Sunday and traffic is generally lighter. And next Monday will also be lighter because of the Labor Day holiday. But come Tuesday and Wed. of next week when everyone is back at work, take your patience along because it might take you an hour to get off Pier 2. Even with a rent-a-cop directing traffic, there will be a bias toward letting the traffic on Kaahumanu/Puunene Ave have the right of way. And this is the first time I've ever seen any State agency work so fast to comply with a court order.

          Miulang
          Last edited by Miulang; August 25, 2007, 09:59 AM.
          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

          Comment


          • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

            Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
            In short there is no legal reason why NCL/YB/Matson should be required to do a EIS. But there is strong legal reasons why a EIS/EA should've been done for HSF.
            Are you telling me that NCL/YB/Matson all use their own personal facilities? This is where the argument about EAs and EISs look hypocritical. I'm willing to bet if an EIS was ever conducted on these operations, they probably grade a lot worse than HSF. And the whole grandfather argument is BS, if the environment is really the point of all this argument, all of them should be subjected. Otherwise, why did car manufacturers have to bother moving from R12 refrigerants to R134a? One can easily argue grandfathered in as well.

            Comment


            • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

              Originally posted by Miulang View Post
              And I keep trying to tell you guys that there IS an EIS for all harbor users of Kahului Harbor that is being done right now by HDOT. So you can stop yammering about how the whackos are singling out HSF for an EIS.
              You telling me what to do all the way from your lofty, cold perch in Seattle??? You don't live in Hawaii.

              The wackos want to stop the Superferry from operating. That's the gist I get by watching the news report on LOCAL TV last night that you don't get out there in SEATTLE. Everything you post about are based on web info and nothing else because of your location.

              You cannot be as intimately involved with Hawaii issues by being so damn far away. You are not paying our taxes, you are not living here. Two short visits a year don't count until you get permanent residence, pay our taxes 365 days a year and vote in our state. Otherwise you are just a poor, lame armchair quarterback calling the shots from out of state.

              The wackos want to shut down the ferry plain and simple. Sierra Club and the 2 others on that legal complaint.

              Go take care of your local issues in Seattle and let Hawaii people mind theirs.
              I'm still here. Are you?

              Comment


              • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

                Originally posted by mel View Post
                You telling me what to do all the way from your lofty, cold perch in Seattle??? You don't live in Hawaii.

                The wackos want to stop the Superferry from operating. That's the gist I get by watching the news report on LOCAL TV last night that you don't get out there in SEATTLE. Everything you post about are based on web info and nothing else because of your location.

                You cannot be as intimately involved with Hawaii issues by being so damn far away. You are not paying our taxes, you are not living here. Two short visits a year don't count until you get permanent residence, pay our taxes 365 days a year and vote in our state. Otherwise you are just a poor, lame armchair quarterback calling the shots from out of state.

                The wackos want to shut down the ferry plain and simple. Sierra Club and the 2 others on that legal complaint.

                Go take care of your local issues in Seattle and let Hawaii people mind theirs.
                It's NOT all based on the web. Believe it or not, I still have contacts on Maui who are well connected in the community. And as an HT moderator, Mel, aren't you supposed to be a little less biased?

                Miulang
                Last edited by Miulang; August 25, 2007, 10:18 AM.
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

                  Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                  It's NOT all based on the web. Believe it or not, I still have contacts on Maui who are well connected in the community. And as an HT moderator, Mel, aren't you supposed to be a little less biased?

                  Miulang

                  1. I don't moderate this section of the board. Only the Hawaii Media.
                  2. I and many others on this board absolutely hate it when you talk down to us telling us "you should do this" "you should do that" while you don't walk the walk with us in Hawaii. People have reminded you about this over and over. Still you do the same.
                  3. I don't care if you have contacts or not. Just the simple fact that you are living so far away from us and constantly talk down to us is disgusting.
                  4. And again you are telling me what to do. Get off your high horse!
                  I'm still here. Are you?

                  Comment


                  • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

                    Originally posted by mel View Post
                    1. I don't moderate this section of the board. Only the Hawaii Media.
                    2. I and many others on this board absolutely hate it when you talk down to us telling us "you should do this" "you should do that" while you don't walk the walk with us in Hawaii. People have reminded you about this over and over. Still you do the same.
                    3. I don't care if you have contacts or not. Just the simple fact that you are living so far away from us and constantly talk down to us is disgusting.
                    4. And again you are telling me what to do. Get off your high horse!
                    As PJ says; "AINOKEA".

                    Miulang
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

                      Then expect more of the same.
                      I'm still here. Are you?

                      Comment


                      • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

                        This is kind of interesting...one of the reasons why HSF may be offering the $5 OW fares is because of this statement made by Terry O'Halloran in this morning's Maui News about the number of reservations already taken for the original inaugural trip to Maui on Sept. 5:

                        O’Halloran said he did not know exactly how many reservations had been made for the original starting day of Tuesday, but he thought it was “under 100.”
                        And Orenstein commends HSF for its pricing tactics, but isn't planning to lower go!s fares any lower than they already are.

                        Miulang
                        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

                          So let's consider worst case scenario, HSF gets shut down till an EIS gets done which could mean years. Any recourse for HSF in Hawaii? What if they realigned their business to simply shipping transport, a competitor to YB? No pax, just faster and easier (roll-on/roll-off) cargo shipping. Are they then subjected to an EIS?

                          Comment


                          • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

                            Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                            Are you telling me that NCL/YB/Matson all use their own personal facilities? This is where the argument about EAs and EISs look hypocritical. I'm willing to bet if an EIS was ever conducted on these operations, they probably grade a lot worse than HSF. And the whole grandfather argument is BS, if the environment is really the point of all this argument, all of them should be subjected. Otherwise, why did car manufacturers have to bother moving from R12 refrigerants to R134a? One can easily argue grandfathered in as well.
                            Let me make it easy for you. The State of Hawaii has provided 40 million to build harbor infrastructure for HSF's exclusive use. Matson, NCL, or YB never received taxpayer subsidies to build their harbor infrastructure. Hence why its not hypocritcal that YB/NCL/Matson is exempted from doing a EIS, but HSF is not. If HSF built their harbor infrastructure itself, the environmentalists would not have a leg to stand on legally.
                            Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                            The Kona Blog

                            Comment


                            • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

                              The Office of Environmental Quality Control, which is a department within the Dept. of Health, is the State body that ultimately decides what has to be included in any EIS or EA.

                              By law, certain other State agencies have on file with this department a list of exceptions. The Dept. of Transportation has an exception filed. The part of this exception that allowed the DOT to claim that there was no need for the EIS is in Exemption Class 6 ("Construction or placement of minor structures accessory to existing facilities"), #8.

                              Alterations or improvements and associated utilities, which are incidental to existing and boat ramp operations, in accordance with master plans that have met with the requirements of chapter 343, Hawai'i Revised Statutes. Such improvements include concessions, comfort stations, pavilions, paving, rockwalls, fencings, walkways, loading docks, warehouses, piers, offices, container freight stations, cranes, fuel lines, lighting, sprinkler and drainage systems.
                              However, at the very bottom of this exception, is this note:

                              Pursuant to Sec. 11-200-8 (b) Hawai'i Administrative Rules, all exemptions under this list are inapplicable when the cumulative impact of planned successive actions of the same type, in the same place, over time, is significant, or when an action that is normally insignificant in its impact on the environment may be significant in a particularly sensitive environment.
                              Miulang
                              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

                                Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                                take your patience along because it might take you an hour to get off Pier 2.
                                Or it might NOT. Unless you're clairvoyant, you really don't know that for a fact, and you're just guessing. As usual.

                                Even with a rent-a-cop directing traffic, there will be a bias toward letting the traffic on Kaahumanu/Puunene Ave have the right of way.
                                Really? Did some secret inside source call you in Seattle and swear to you that there would be that "bias"? Or are you, you know... guessing again?

                                And this is the first time I've ever seen any State agency work so fast to comply with a court order
                                You expected them to take months or years to just paint a few new stripes in the road there?
                                And gee, that state agency moving fast must mean that the state wants the SuperFerry.
                                Imagine that.
                                .
                                .

                                That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                                Comment

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