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Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

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  • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Miulang, I am sorry. But your arguments are not very cohesive, nor convincing.

    So, to recap your points:

    YB is OK to sail while we study because they are entrenched and they provide necessary service to neighbor islanders? Airlines are OK to fly because they are entrenched and they provide necessary service to tourists?

    But YAB (Yet Another Boat) wants to sail and we can't have that because they provide an UNNECESSARY service to LOCALS and they are NOT entrenched (part of the Old Boy Network)?

    Wow. I would hate to be, say, Native Hawaiian, and have to argue with you as to whether I deserved federal recognition. It would be OK for "all those other guys" like Native Alaskans and Native CONUS Americans, because they were "entrenched." But those pesky Hawaiians aren't "entrenched" yet. Why should we let them GET "entrenched."

    Pffft.
    Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

    Comment


    • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

      Originally posted by zztype View Post
      YB is OK to sail while we study because they are entrenched and they provide necessary service to neighbor islanders? Airlines are OK to fly because they are entrenched and they provide necessary service to tourists?
      Well, "grandfathering" an established business or operation that is in place prior to the enactment of a piece of legislation is standard practice in governmental regulations.

      Comment


      • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

        Originally posted by zztype View Post
        Miulang, I am sorry. But your arguments are not very cohesive, nor convincing.

        So, to recap your points:

        YB is OK to sail while we study because they are entrenched and they provide necessary service to neighbor islanders? Airlines are OK to fly because they are entrenched and they provide necessary service to tourists?

        But YAB (Yet Another Boat) wants to sail and we can't have that because they provide an UNNECESSARY service to LOCALS and they are NOT entrenched (part of the Old Boy Network)?

        Wow. I would hate to be, say, Native Hawaiian, and have to argue with you as to whether I deserved federal recognition. It would be OK for "all those other guys" like Native Alaskans and Native CONUS Americans, because they were "entrenched." But those pesky Hawaiians aren't "entrenched" yet. Why should we let them GET "entrenched."

        Pffft.
        Blaine, you used the term "entrenched" before I did. And Judge Cardoza called HSF "new technology".

        As I said before, whether you care to agree with me or not, YB is a necessity for Neighbor Island folks; HSF is a convenience. Bottom line: I'm glad this mess resulted in the State deciding to do EAs for all the harbors instead of only Kahului. All the Neighbor Island harbors need to be studied because they have all exceeded their capacity to serve the immediate needs of the local residents who live on each island. Where HSF fits into the picture is kinda irrelevant because if it wasn't HSF, it would be some other ferry entity eventually.

        I'm glad that the Special Session isn't debating whether to completely exclude HSF from an EA or not. They are going to be modifying HRS 343 in some way in order to allow HSF to sail while an EA is being conducted. Given what I have read in various reports, about the only way the Neighbor Island legislators are going to give the Gov. what she wants is if there are strings attached. The strings may include a speed limit and some other mitigations that surfaced during the Maui trial.

        And HSF must be earning some income during this period. Someone sent me an invitation to the closing party for the HIFF Friday night, Oct. 27...Guess where it's going to be held? Pier 19, on the Alakai. Be there or be square. I guess management isn't counting on ferrying passengers by Oct. 27 if they went ahead and took reservations for a party instead. And they took the reservation function of their website. You can't reserve online or use the call center to make a reservation. The splash page now has the Gov.'s Perry & Price interview on it.

        Miulang

        P.S. If I was able to do something about it, I would be working for the sovereignty movement. I am against the Akaka Bill as it is written today. The Kanaka Maoli are not a "tribe".
        Last edited by Miulang; October 11, 2007, 01:23 PM.
        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

        Comment


        • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

          They layed off 249 workers!
          "Hawaii Superferry CEO John Garibaldi today announced the furlough of 249 employees. The company is retaining 59 employees to handle administrative and operational needs.

          "Over the past seven weeks, we have been very optimistic, but candid, with our employees regarding the various judicial proceedings on Maui," Superferry president and chief executive officer John Garibaldi said in a statement. "An unavoidable consequence of the recent ruling is that we have reached the point where Hawaii Superferry can no longer bear the financial cost of fully retaining its workforce."
          http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...082157634.html

          I'm lost foa words.

          Auntie Lynn
          Last edited by 1stwahine; October 11, 2007, 02:35 PM.
          Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
          Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

          Comment


          • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

            Young Brothers is a "necessity" only because of its position as a MONOPOLY! We have to pay their high rates to ship vehicles inter-island because there is no other choice.

            Comment


            • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

              Originally posted by 1stwahine View Post
              They layed off 249 workers!
              Yep. And I wonder how many of those guys worked on Kauai and Maui? Economic development at work! Where's that number for the unemployment office?

              Here we go:

              http://www.hawaii.gov/labor/ui/index.shtml

              http://www.hawaii.gov/labor/ui/contactsnew.shtml

              KAUAI BRANCH

              MANAGER, MARILYN YAMAGUCHI 274-3040 274-3046

              KAUAI CLAIMS 274-3043 274-3046
              3-3100 KUHIO HWY STE 12
              LIHUE HI 96766-1153

              EMPLOYER SERVICES SECTION 274-3025 274-3046

              ___________________________
              MAUI BRANCH

              MANAGER, FAITH NAGATA 984-8407 984-8444

              MAUI CLAIMS 984-8400 984-8444
              54 S HIGH ST RM 201
              WAILUKU HI 96793-2198

              MOLOKAI CLAIMS 553-1750 553-1753
              55 MAKAENA PL RM 4
              KAUNAKAKAI HI 96748-1858

              EMPLOYER SERVICES SECTION 984-8410 984-8444

              Hey, just trying to be helpful here.
              Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

              Comment


              • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                Originally posted by zztype View Post
                Yep. And I wonder how many of those guys worked on Kauai and Maui?
                According to the report I heard, 35 people each on Kauai and Maui and 179 (?) on Oahu.
                Last edited by glossyp; October 11, 2007, 04:00 PM. Reason: Clarity

                Comment


                • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                  Originally posted by glossyp View Post
                  According to the report I heard, 35 people each on Kauai and Maui and 179 (?) on Oahu.
                  "The furlough involves 178 people on O'ahu, 36 on Maui and 35 on Kaua'i."
                  http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...082157634.html

                  Auntie Lynn
                  Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                  Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                    Originally posted by 1stwahine View Post
                    "The furlough involves 178 people on O'ahu, 36 on Maui and 35 on Kaua'i."
                    http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...082157634.html

                    Auntie Lynn
                    Thanks! I was listening to the radio and driving so missed the exact count. Regardless, this is yet another in a string of sad days. I know there are jobs out there for these people, but how disappointing for them to have been part of something new and exciting and see it gone.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                      Originally posted by glossyp View Post
                      Thanks! I was listening to the radio and driving so missed the exact count. Regardless, this is yet another in a string of sad days. I know there are jobs out there for these people, but how disappointing for them to have been part of something new and exciting and see it gone.
                      I don't know anyone who worked for HSF yet, I feel so SAD for each person who got layed off today. My prayers and thoughts goes to each and everyone of them. To have anticipated an exciting new beginning and now this ending.

                      Shame on Hawai'i nei!

                      Shame on the Legislature of Hawai'i.

                      Auntie Lynn
                      Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                      Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                        Ever wonder how John Waihee III came to power with a budget surplus and left incoming Gov. Ben Cayetano with the largest black hole of a deficit in state history? Because he was a typical Hawaiian. He hooked up all his friends. That’s right, you heard me say it. Plantation Asians, my @ss.
                        Gotta agree with you here TuNnL. Squidwaddah was one lame gov. I heard a quote once from someone who new him at UH Law and she was saying how she NEVER ever though of John Squidwaddah becoming the governor or anything close. Oh, I remember, it was his Japanee wife who said that. Funny no?

                        Squidwaddah was basically a plant by the Plantation Asians (Pun intended). He was dumb enough so that their 90% control of the Senate and House wouldn't have to worry about the governor.

                        But the weakness of Waihee and so many other major problems in Hawaii (you can call it a broken record) come back to the fact that there is no check and no balance. Dummy's like Waihee did things that he couldn't have done if there were some opposition in the legislature. But there was no opposition. Juss like the corruption you see with the national Republican control over the past few years.

                        You can get all huhu cuz I'm nailing the current power monopoly but sorry for the truth cuz.

                        I like the fact that the spineless Plantation Asians are trying their best not to say anything about saving the superferry cuz they are hoping they can make Lingle look like the pro-business Plantation haole boogieman that has driven so much of the Plantation Asian's power ever the years. Its good that they are fighting with Lingle. It means there is a better chance of the result being better for most of Hawaii, not just one segment.

                        Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                        Who do you think those Plantation Asians learned it from?
                        Japan. Thats the culture. Quiet but effective. Remember that? Back room deals. No talk. No argue. No debate. Grumpy gray haired old Japanee man sits in meeting saying nothing. Ultimately the decision is made by the same old man in another back room somewhere. Take care your own. Cut off your enemies. Stick together. Vote race not issue. The sun belongs to us.

                        By the way TuNnL, I noticed you are writing from Moilili, home of the Japanese Torii Gate on PUBLIC LAND!. Remember the Cross up Camp Smith and also the one up Kolekole pass? Both torn down cuz no can have religious symbols on public land. But the Japanese Torii Gate, used as an entrance to Shinto Shrines and other sacred places, on the Triangle park public land at Unveristy and King? No problemo.

                        And you say I am an "ignorant ranting". So try explain that one Miyagi. Funny kine no?

                        Arigato



                        Aloha

                        Comment


                        • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                          Pardon for this small interruption, but it bugs me.

                          http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=tribe

                          Main Entry: tribe
                          Pronunciation: 'trIb
                          Function: noun
                          Etymology: Middle English, from Latin tribus, a division of the Roman people, tribe
                          1 a : a social group comprising numerous families, clans, or generations together with slaves, dependents, or adopted strangers b : a political division of the Roman people originally representing one of the three original tribes of ancient Rome c : PHYLE
                          2 : a group of persons having a common character, occupation, or interest
                          3 : a category of taxonomic classification ranking below a subfamily; also : a natural group irrespective of taxonomic rank <the cat tribe> <the rose tribe>



                          In relations with the assorted NATIONS of North American Natives the term tribe is just a contrived terminology of convenience with no more solid definition than a fart in the wind has.

                          http://tinyurl.com/yrlsdn



                          I don't particularly care for the Akaka bill as it stands 'cause it turns a nation of people into toothless pups. But to say the Kanaka Maoli aren't a 'tribe' in the classical definition of a the word is a mistake.

                          If they want to define themselves as a tribe in the classical dictionary sense, well they are. If they want to define themselves by the government definition then they'll have to get used to kibble.


                          But yanno...sometimes toothless pups grow to be big dogs

                          with big teeth.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                            Originally posted by Peshkwe View Post
                            Pardon for this small interruption, but it bugs me.

                            http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=tribe

                            Main Entry: tribe
                            Pronunciation: 'trIb
                            Function: noun
                            Etymology: Middle English, from Latin tribus, a division of the Roman people, tribe
                            1 a : a social group comprising numerous families, clans, or generations together with slaves, dependents, or adopted strangers b : a political division of the Roman people originally representing one of the three original tribes of ancient Rome c : PHYLE
                            2 : a group of persons having a common character, occupation, or interest
                            3 : a category of taxonomic classification ranking below a subfamily; also : a natural group irrespective of taxonomic rank <the cat tribe> <the rose tribe>



                            In relations with the assorted NATIONS of North American Natives the term tribe is just a contrived terminology of convenience with no more solid definition than a fart in the wind has.

                            http://tinyurl.com/yrlsdn



                            I don't particularly care for the Akaka bill as it stands 'cause it turns a nation of people into toothless pups. But to say the Kanaka Maoli aren't a 'tribe' in the classical definition of a the word is a mistake.

                            If they want to define themselves as a tribe in the classical dictionary sense, well they are. If they want to define themselves by the government definition then they'll have to get used to kibble.


                            But yanno...sometimes toothless pups grow to be big dogs

                            with big teeth.
                            My bad. Of course I know the Native Americans are not tribes either. They belong to nations, as do the aborigines, the Inuits and all other indigenous people. Sorry, Peshkwe. My "white man's" education got the better of me that time.

                            Miulang
                            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                            Comment


                            • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                              *snort*

                              It's not 'white man's' education that gotcha it's the winners vs losers education that got ya.

                              Shoot just following this topic shows big time tribalism. It's just not tribalism base on ethnicity but of location. Ya gots the Oahu tribe vs the Maui tribe vs the Kauai'i tribe..and ya all scrappin to see who's gonna control your individual mini Nations.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                                Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                                My bad. Of course I know the Native Americans are not tribes either. They belong to nations, as do the aborigines, the Inuits and all other indigenous people. Sorry, Peshkwe. My "white man's" education got the better of me that time.

                                Miulang
                                Nobody's limiting your education Miulang.

                                I don't really get this discussion. While all semantics, I think the reason Hawaiians like to point out that they (they meaning >50% which is how I define Hawaiian) are not "JUST" a tribe is because the Hawaiian Nation was far more "ADVANCED" than any Indian Tribe ever was. Now I know peshkwe will probably reeducate us on this and will probably say that the fact that the rest of the world (not just Europeans) sees a difference between a tribe and a nation is irrelevant, but I don't get it yet.

                                The Hawaiian Nation was an organized government with established Kings, Chiefs and Alii before immigrants showed up. Once they showed up, the Hawaiian Nation (the one that was overthrown) had an elected and appointed government, established treaties with other foreign nations and even had a written constitution.

                                Now Indians will say that all that is meaningless. While I am sure it is meaningless to those Indians, I am not so sure it is truly meaningless. Most modern peoples, regardless of being White or Asian or Polynesian, i think, would recognize and admit that there is a difference between an organized government like the Hawaiian Nation was and a "Tribe" that exists with rules understood by insiders but invisible to outsiders.

                                Hawaiians were never just a "tribe". They were a unified, single race people with a single language and a uniform culture governed by an organized governmental system which was clear to other nations which the Hawaiian Nation was involved with.

                                I don't think one could say the same of Indian "tribes".

                                I am NOT suggesting one has the right to be slaughtered and taken over while one does not. But what is clear to me is that if over 180 Indian "Tribes" are recognized by the US today as indigenous people, then there is no excuse for Hawaiians not to also be regarded as indignenous people.

                                That's not a "white mans" education. That's common sense.

                                And that's why the Superferry won't sail. See?
                                Last edited by kamuelakea; October 11, 2007, 06:54 PM.

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