Another reason to eat locally grown food

[joshuatree]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

Getting rid of the Jones Act would help bring prices down and possibly create a "lifeline" for Hawai'i in times of shipping strikes on the West Coast. But it still wouldn't address the quality control issues with imports from Asia...I can tolerate defects in manufactured goods, but NOT tainted food! And if we think Hawai'i has issues with invasive species now, can you imagine what things would be like if ships, harboring alien pests, were allowed to dock directly at ports in Hawai'i? Bugs from some parts of Asia would absolutely love the climate in Hawai'i.

Miulang

P.S. Getting rid of the Jones Act might also help the people seeking sovereignty further their case for independence if there was less reliance on CONUS for critical goods.

You are right about food quality control. That's another issue, something I believe the Jones Act has zero power in addressing. And before people get all hyped up that tainted food only comes from Asia, remember the tainted salads coming from California a few months back? It can happen from any source.

As for invasive species from foreign ships, it's not just the ships, it's the containers. And that already happens as containers cross borders without any hindrance in today's world. Btw, where are all the environmental groups when it comes to Matson's China - Long Beach Express route? They actually send a container ship from Ningbo/Shanghai to Long Beach, then it swings back down to Hawaii, then to Guam, then back to China. You've already got your invasive species route happening as we speak. But everyone got on the bandwagon with pitch forks and torches when it came to the HSF?

http://matson.com/china/index.html

[Miulang]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

But in your example, you are comparing apples to oranges. Food are items of necessity. Shoes and Sharper Image are items of luxury.

Aside from marking up for the extra shipping charge, I don't see why there needs to be a major markup for profit. The prices I quoted for food on CONUS are prices those stores are making a profit on.

I don't know if this is true in Hawai'i, but the typical operating margin of most supermarkets is anywhere from 1-3% (except for Whole Foods possibly), which isn't very much, when you look at the markups of nonessential goods at places like Sharper Image. So if that margin also holds true for Hawai'i, then the grocery stores are not the ones who are ripping you off. More than likely, the middlemen---the folks who get your food to you---are the ones who are making the most profit. Eventually, unless something is done, pretty soon your choices of where you buy your food might be limited to the big boxes---the Safeways, Costcos and WalMarts---who can buy in huge quantities. You might not have your Times or Star Markets forever, unless you continue to show loyalty to them now.

One way your food costs are reduced is that essential food is not taxed when you buy it. I can't remember if when I went to Sack 'n Save the other week whether or not I paid a sales tax on the half gallon of Haleakala Dairy milk and loaf of Home Maid Bakery bread I bought, though.

Up here, there is no tax on most food except deli and softdrinks and candy. Other consumables like toilet paper are taxed.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

Of course that's part of it, but when costs are higher for everything from labor to taxes to property, even without shipping expenses, the retail prices will be higher. Our minimum wage is two dollars per hour higher than the Federal minimum wage; I know I don't have to tell you how much more it costs to own land; fuel costs, even for strictly in-state transportation and energy, are going to boost expenses more than they would where fuel is cheaper (which is just about everywhere on the mainland).

It's just what it costs to live here.

I'm actually not buying those arguments. I am not denying doing business in Hawaii is expensive but I do believe there is a lot of price gouging based on the ingrain presumption that it's the extra shipping costs, high cost of labor, and cost of real estate.

The food prices I listed as examples from CONUS were obtained from grocery stores in Southern California. Minimum wage in Hawaii is $7.25 an hour. Cali's is $7.50. Cost of land? Cali's is right up there with Hawaii. Gas? Average price of 87 octane regular for Hawaii this week is $3.20. For Cali, $3.26. So the only other variable is shipping. I find it hard to believe shipping translates to a price increase of two to three times. Btw, the example of 5 cloves of garlic, those were garlic imported from China, a shipping distance much further for Cali than for Hawaii so you see why I question the food prices?

[CranBeree]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

ok..here is a little known deal or maybe you guys do know...

Western Family, Times, Best Yet (i forget the rest of the private labels)

those are all under Meadow Gold.... they just change the boxes.

if your milk doesn't say Island Fresh, then it's from California. shipped over in those huge tubular things...i forget what tehyre called exactly..if you know what im talking about remind me...if you do know and you see those things on the road and it says Agmark..it contains orange juice...blah blah blah... just a little trivia for your day!

[joshuatree]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

uhmm..that whole concept would apply to food to. trust me i know these things. but then again you could always try your hand at being buyer for a distributor.

No it wouldn't. Based on your belief that shipping costs would make food two to three times the cost of food on CONUS, why isn't that pair of $49.99 shoes not $149.99 in Hawaii because of the shipping?

Being a buyer for a distributor would still mean you gotta work under their excessively greedy MOs so what's changed? All you will learn is that they want excessively fat profit margins, again, not as big of an issue with luxury items vs items you need to live, food.

[CranBeree]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

No it wouldn't. Based on your belief that shipping costs would make food two to three times the cost of food on CONUS, why isn't that pair of $49.99 shoes not $149.99 in Hawaii because of the shipping?

Being a buyer for a distributor would still mean you gotta work under their excessively greedy MOs so what's changed? All you will learn is that they want excessively fat profit margins, again, not as big of an issue with luxury items vs items you need to live, food.

i didnt say only the shipping/freight..i said ..go read what i wrote... i think you missed about the part about GP and rent and all that stuff. and the shoe cost was actually between $4-5. Retailed at $49.99

p.s. produce/meat/fish etc. needs to get to Hawaii within 24 hours..and also for all items requriing consumption also must go through customs clearance /FDA etc.

[joshuatree]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

i didnt say only the shipping/freight..i said ..go read what i wrote... i think you missed about the part about GP and rent and all that stuff. and the shoe cost was actually between $4-5. Retailed at $49.99

I did read what you wrote but I already stated once that profit on items of luxury can't be compared on par with items of necessity. Also, I also already stated that the food prices I quoted for CONUS is already at profitable prices so your statement of needing to tack on more to price of food in Hawaii for profit is either 1) irrelevant because the CONUS prices I started with are already market prices which includes profit or 2) the sellers in Hawaii are excessively gouging which leads back to my original post.

I replied to another poster comparing costs in Hawaii with Cali. They are practically eye to eye with the only exception of shipping.

[CranBeree]

joshuatree: i seriously hope you don't like sashimi or any type of fish for that matter. you would die knowing what the markup is..

I did read what you wrote but I already stated once that profit on items of luxury can't be compared on par with items of necessity. Also, I also already stated that the food prices I quoted for CONUS is already at profitable prices so your statement of needing to tack on more to price of food in Hawaii for profit is either 1) irrelevant because the CONUS prices I started with are already market prices which includes profit or 2) the sellers in Hawaii are excessively gouging which leads back to my original post.

I replied to another poster comparing costs in Hawaii with Cali. They are practically eye to eye with the only exception of shipping.

ok...any food item....has to make GP (GP from 35% and up) ...so yes you are right about the high prices..but then in turn thats' how companies make money.

you could also go swap meet or farmer's market if you dont want to pay that right? your choice.

did you read the part about food items having to be here within 24 hours etc?

[joshuatree]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

joshuatree: i seriously hope you don't like sashimi or any type of fish for that matter. you would die knowing what the markup is..

ok...any food item....has to make GP (GP from 35% and up) ...so yes you are right about the high prices..but then in turn thats' how companies make money.

you could also go swap meet or farmer's market if you dont want to pay that right? your choice.

did you read the part about food items having to be here within 24 hours etc?

Oh I have my moments when I crave for sashimi but I don't know why you think I have no clue to product markups. I don't dispute with you that a seller will try to sell a product at the highest possible price. But sashimi is considered a luxury item. I can't recall the last time the UN providing sashimi to the masses in a hunger crisis. Besides, the prices for sashimi in Hawaii and on CONUS ain't that far apart. Sashimi is in short supply with overfishing and there's a world demand that dictates the pricing very closely.

My whole point in this discussion is that people in Hawaii are practically being gouged on basic food items because the excuse has been, shipping costs. Yes, shipping costs should indeed make the food prices a bit more than CONUS but not at 100% or 200% of prices on CONUS. Someone in the Hawaii food chain supply is clearly making bank. And people of Hawaii are willing to accept it because we're all so preconditioned with the shipping explanation.

Regarding certain food items having be here within 24 hours. That's a lot of exaggeration given today's refrigerated containers. Unless you are referring to live fish, or of similar nature, there is no need to have items here within 24 hours. Have you ever bought a 5 lb box of Tyson frozen chicken drums and wings? Or how about a 5 lb box of frozen shrimp from the Philippines or Vietnam? None of those items are 24 hours, especially when you look at the box timestamps and those items were processed like 3 months prior.

I do try to find alternate avenues like farmers markets, etc. Chinatown would probably be the easiest bet in finding cheaper food.

As for any food item has to make profit from 35% and up. Isn't that just greed? Where is it written in stone? Costco's mantra is to never make more than 15% profit off an item. There's profit and then there's greedy profit.

[CranBeree]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

Oh I have my moments when I crave for sashimi but I don't know why you think I have no clue to product markups. I don't dispute with you that a seller will try to sell a product at the highest possible price. But sashimi is considered a luxury item. I can't recall the last time the UN providing sashimi to the masses in a hunger crisis. Besides, the prices for sashimi in Hawaii and on CONUS ain't that far apart. Sashimi is in short supply with overfishing and there's a world demand that dictates the pricing very closely.

My whole point in this discussion is that people in Hawaii are practically being gouged on basic food items because the excuse has been, shipping costs. Yes, shipping costs should indeed make the food prices a bit more than CONUS but not at 100% or 200% of prices on CONUS. Someone in the Hawaii food chain supply is clearly making bank. And people of Hawaii are willing to accept it because we're all so preconditioned with the shipping explanation.

Regarding certain food items having be here within 24 hours. That's a lot of exaggeration given today's refrigerated containers. Unless you are referring to live fish, or of similar nature, there is no need to have items here within 24 hours. Have you ever bought a 5 lb box of Tyson frozen chicken drums and wings? Or how about a 5 lb box of frozen shrimp from the Philippines or Vietnam? None of those items are 24 hours, especially when you look at the box timestamps and those items were processed like 3 months prior.

I do try to find alternate avenues like farmers markets, etc. Chinatown would probably be the easiest bet in finding cheaper food.

As for any food item has to make profit from 35% and up. Isn't that just greed? Where is it written in stone? Costco's mantra is to never make more than 15% profit off an item. There's profit and then there's greedy profit.

i will edit to say 48 instead of 24 hrs...airlines are have a minimum requirement of 48 yhrs..(call the airlines if you so desire)

as for the fish comment, forget it, it was meant to be a joke.

as for the 35% and up, no its not written in stone but then again it isn't your company.

i think if you really want to choose to understand the situation, then you would have to work in the industry itself.

k.....off to enjoy the rest of my Friday.
Cheers!

[Miulang]

Slow Food movement

Another way to connect with the food you eat. And there's a local Hawai'i chapter, too.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

Only a little more than 1% of the food imported into this country is inspected by the FDA, which means a little less than 99% is slipping through, potentially causing harm to us. The only time the FDA will really scrutinize any product is AFTER reports have surfaced about poisoning or illness or the exporting country is known to have had problems in the past.

Last month alone, FDA detained nearly 850 shipments of grains, fish, vegetables, nuts, spice, oils and other imported foods for issues ranging from filth to unsafe food coloring to contamination with pesticides to salmonella.

And that's with just 1.3 percent of the imports inspected. The other 98.7 percent? It's not inspected, much less detained, and goes to feed the nation's growing appetite for imported foods.

Each year, the average American eats about 260 pounds of imported foods, including processed, ready-to-eat products and single ingredients. Imports account for about 13 percent of the annual diet.

"Never before in history have we had the sort of system that we have now, meaning a globalization of the food supply," said Robert Brackett, director of the FDA's Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition.

FDA inspections focus on foods known to be at risk for contamination, including fish, shellfish, fruit and vegetables. Food from countries or producers previously shown to be problematic also are flagged for a closer look.

Consider this list of Chinese products detained by the FDA just in the last month: frozen catfish tainted with illegal veterinary drugs, fresh ginger polluted with pesticides, melon seeds contaminated with a cancer-causing toxin and filthy dried dates.

Miulang

[greentara]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

Yikes. While I knew that most everything is manufarctured over in China, I didn't realize that FOOD PRODUCTS was part of that. That's scary, because China is like the wild west over there. Lax laws, low quality control, very little business scruples, and health codes ?... Pulleeze.

Having a widget like an MP3 player, a lamp, or the promotional drink coasters for my new Tikiyaki Orchestra CD made over there is one thing, FOOD is another entirely. That's scary. In a country where some unthinkable things are edible, this could be dangerous.

Wow, that's cause for alarm.

Love the music...

When I'm visiting Kaua'i I live on Pokie, (sp?) from the Korean deli, what I buy at the farmers market and what I get from the trees on the land I live on ~ oranges, papayas, bananas, and other citrus fruits. Coffee is no more expensive than SF the only thing that is a bit pricy is EVO, I will be bringing large bottles back when I visit SF. Dairy is expensive but I don’t eat dairy so it’s no big deal. I have a discount card for Foodmart and prices there are not bad. If you eat a lot of processed food I guess it could be expensive ~ it won’t be a problem to eat locally when I’m living there.

[Miulang]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

The FDA is finally waking up to the fact that if pet food, which is supposed to be highly regulated, can be contaminated by chemicals, then perhaps they also need to start testing human food products more diligently. They are especially concerned about imports from China, as well they should be.

In this age of globalization of the food supply, and with China exporting so much of it to this country, you never know whether that processed food product you're eating---that was made in the US---might contain some adulturated ingredients that were used by a company to decrease its manufacturing costs.

By value, China is the world's No. 1 exporter of fruits and vegetables, and a major exporter of other food and food products, which vary widely, from apple juice to sausage casings and garlic. China's agricultural exports to the United States surged to $2.26 billion last year, according to U.S. figures -- more than 20 times the $133 million of 1980.

China has been especially poor at meeting international standards. The United States subjects only a small fraction of its food imports to close inspection, but each month rejects about 200 shipments from China, mostly because of concerns about pesticides and antibiotics and about misleading labeling. In February, border inspectors for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration blocked peas tainted by pesticides, dried white plums containing banned additives, pepper contaminated with salmonella and frozen crawfish that were filthy.

Since 2000, some countries have temporarily banned whole categories of Chinese imports. The European Union stopped shipments of shrimp because of banned antibiotics. Japan blocked tea and spinach, citing excessive antibiotic residue. And South Korea banned fermented cabbage after finding parasites in some shipments.

As globalization of the food supply progresses, "the food gets more anonymous and gradually you get into a situation where you don't know where exactly it came from and you get more vulnerable to poor quality," said Michiel Keyzer, director of the Centre for World Food Studies at Vrije University in Amsterdam, who researches China's exports to the European Union.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Another reason to eat locally grown food

It's been a good news/bad news kinda day...

Hawai'i's production of fresh fruits and vegetables has roughly doubled since the 1960s as farms have shifted away from plantation crops to staples such as tomatoes, bananas, cabbage and sweet potatoes.

But the amount of imported fresh produce has more than tripled in the same period.

The result is a tipping of the import vs. local balance in the direction of imports.

In 1960, Hawai'i farmers provided half of the vegetables eaten in the Islands. By 2005 they were only growing one-third of what was consumed, according to Hawai'i Department of Agriculture figures. The local market share of fresh fruit has fared slightly better, falling from 57 percent in 1960 to 42 percent in 2004, in the most recent data.

The drop in market share for local producers comes as farmers grapple with an array of challenges including urban encroachment, high land costs, stiffer environmental regulations and competition from growers worldwide.

"It's tough competing with the Mainland because land costs, water costs, labor costs are all higher," said Milton Agader, co-owner of Twin Bridge Farms in Waialua. "Not only do you have to grow a good product, but you've got to be really good at marketing."

...In the past 45 years, Hawai'i's agriculture sector has undergone a profound shift away from large single-crop plantations to so-called "diversified" crops, which include everything except sugar cane and pineapple.

Hawai'i's farm acreage has fallen from 2.6 million acres in 1960 to 1.3 million acres in 2004 in large part because of the closing of sugar cane and pineapple plantations. Operations such as Twin Bridge farms have helped keep plantation lands in agriculture by growing niche crops such as asparagus.

The situation is more severe for meat, milk and egg producers. Hawai'i has suffered a steep decline in livestock operations. Since 1999, 26 commercial livestock operations in Hawai'i have shut down — a 41 percent drop, according to a survey conducted last year by the University of Hawai'i College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources. During that period, the state's poultry sector has been nearly wiped out while the number of milk, egg and pork producers has fallen sharply in part because of rising feed and transportation costs and a lack of available long-term leases on private-sector agricultural lands.

After a decade of mostly declining sales during the 1990s, agriculture overall is on steady footing, thanks to the growth of specialized crops such as coffee, papaya, macadamia nuts and microalgae.

Miulang