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  • Re: on our soon to be rail tranisit

    For those of us old enough to remember days when Pali Highway and Likelike Highway were the only reasonable ways into town from the Windward side, it would seem that those arguing for more (and better) roads have a strong point. Traffic from the Windward side used to be awful, even on good days. Throw in one stalled vehicle just before a tunnel, and it seemed everyone was late going anywhere from anywhere.

    The H-3, for all its problems and issues, proved once it was functioning that the bumper sticker was right: We all needed H-3. The drive from the Windward side, while still not exactly fun during rush hour, is a million times better now.

    It seems that if some similar alternate avenue was created for those coming from the Leeward side into town, we could really do something. I honestly don't know about people not wanting to get out of their cars, since I have been both driver and pedestrian in the past few years and saw the appeal of both modes, but I believe if mass transit was attractive enough and everyone gave it a shot for about a week, enough people WOULD leave their cars home to make this work. Failing that, it seems another way in is the only solution.

    I don't think limiting the number of cars on the island is a practical solution. Rethinking the way we approach our homes and our workspaces is much smarter. If you can get people living closer to where they work, drives to work will be shorter. The buses are crammed with working-class people who have to work in Waikiki but could never afford to live there. What if we got all those people busing from Ewa, Kapolei, and Mililani into homes they could afford closer to town?

    The recently failed Kakaako redevelopment plan and the newly proposed Victoria Ward plan are models that consider these variables. Mixed-use districts combined with homes for people of various incomes will mean fewer cars on the roads. In my twelve years as a teacher, I have never lived further than a fifteen minute drive from where I work. It makes my own life a lot better, but I like to think that since I'm on the freeway now for only the distance that stretches between two offramps, I'm also doing my part to make everyone else's drive slightly better. Imagine if thousands more of us were doing the same thing.

    I confess to being disappointed by the "steel wheels on a steel rail" option that's being recommended partially because I think something new and different will get people to give alternate modes a chance.
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
    GrouchyTeacher.com

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    • Re: on our soon to be rail tranisit

      Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
      Stupid plan, and a complete waste of several billion dollars.
      Only way to reduce traffic is a) limit the number of cars allowed on the island,
      I got this weird feeling where we take our queue from China, only one car (not one child) per family.

      Don't get me wrong. I live in a place where parking is scarce and you have a neighbor with a big family and so have more cars than they can put under their carport.


      Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
      b) implement staggered work hours wherever possible, and most importantly
      Like many people wants to work graveyard shifts. It can only work if downtown Business District -- e.g., Fort Street Mall -- doesn't close down (like Longs on Bishop Street).

      Even better if not some but all banks do not take the same holidays off as the government. Even more ideal that the government don't take holidays (and I'm not just talking about the first responders). Bah Humbug.


      Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
      c) redesign and rebuild the ridiculously stupid arrangement of on- and off-ramps on our freeways.
      Is that even possible without disrupting the traffic flow, which is worse as it is?
      Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

      Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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      • Re: on our soon to be rail tranisit

        Originally posted by mapen View Post
        It amazes me how many people are deluded into thinking that rail is going to stop people from using their cars to drive to work.
        The only way to stop people from using their cars is to stop offering fuels to them.
        Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

        Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

        Comment


        • Re: Rail Transit

          When the cost of gas and price of parking gets high enough, people will start to re-think how they get to work or school each day.

          Increasing the number of routes into the city isn't a great long-term solution because the traffic ends up in the same spot with a limited amount of parking available.

          Living closer to work is a great concept but a too many can't afford it. That's why so many subdivisions are being built in Ewa and beyond.

          The long-term answer is finding an energy-efficient way of moving people, not cars. And it has to be independent of the mess on the freeways as well as less labor-intensive as another bus system. Rail might not be the perfect answer today, but it's a step in the right direction in the long run.

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          • Re: Rail Transit

            Dr. Panos Prevedouros, the lone dissenting vote who went against the majority on the technology selection panel, will be the featured speaker at this coming Thursday's Small Business Hawaii Sunrise Breakfast. There may still be seats available, but you'll have to call SBH @ 396-1724.
            I'm still here. Are you?

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            • Re: Rail Transit

              Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
              Increasing the number of routes into the city isn't a great long-term solution because the traffic ends up in the same spot with a limited amount of parking available.
              Not sure I agree; nor would I know how to back up my stance. I get on the freeway, heading toward Ewa, in Kalihi, and there's plenty of traffic already on the freeway going in my direction. Those cars don't end up "in the same spot." I'll bet quite a bit of traffic on the freeway coming from Kapolei, Ewa, and Mililani doesn't go all the way into town as well.

              Living closer to work is a great concept but a too many can't afford it. That's why so many subdivisions are being built in Ewa and beyond.
              I don't think you heard what I'm saying. Of course too many people cannot afford to live in town. What I am saying is that this needs to change. Putting different residential options for people of different levels of income in town and the surrounding areas is the best way to go. Planning only for high-end, expensive residences is poor planning and affects (negatively) the quality of life for everyone involved.

              Sure, I know there are a lot of people who prefer the suburban life, but I'll bet a great number of people would choose to live in town if they could afford it. I'm saying that there's got to be a way to get those people into town. I know there's got to be a way, because there are successful cities on the mainland that make it work.
              But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
              GrouchyTeacher.com

              Comment


              • Re: on our soon to be rail tranisit

                Originally posted by jkpescador View Post
                I guess you didn't read this article:
                http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...802100361.html
                Transit system likely won't improve traffic
                Whoa! Can somebody say whoever wrote the headline had an agenda?

                If someone took the time to read and digest the complete article, both sides of the issue were presented. It wasn't entirely dwelling on the negatives of rail.
                This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                Comment


                • Re: Rail Transit

                  Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                  The long-term answer is finding an energy-efficient way of moving people, not cars.
                  You still need to wean them from their cars.

                  Is there a survey of Honolulu commuters who would be willing to leave the comfort and convenience of their personal automotive vehicle for an efficient mode of transportation to and from their workplace?

                  Is there a survey of Honolulu commuters who use their vehicle as part of their job (like a mobile office, with the exception of delivery services) would be willing to ditch it in favor of a public transit that offer the same function?
                  Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                  Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

                  Comment


                  • Re: Rail Transit

                    Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                    Increasing the number of routes into the city isn't a great long-term solution because the traffic ends up in the same spot with a limited amount of parking available.
                    Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                    Not sure I agree; nor would I know how to back up my stance. I get on the freeway, heading toward Ewa, in Kalihi, and there's plenty of traffic already on the freeway going in my direction. Those cars don't end up "in the same spot."
                    Maybe not all of them end up in the exact same spot. But enough of them do end up going to UH-Manoa, downtown, and Waikiki, where parking is definitely a problem. So AFAIAC, Composite's point is well taken.

                    We need to be encouraging mass transportation, not encouraging more private vehicle ownership.

                    And doing nothing about the issue is not a viable option, either. As the population grows, the traffic gridlock and parking shortage will only get worse. Think those problems are bad now? Sing along with me,...

                    You ain't seen nothin' yet.
                    B-b-b-baby, you just ain't seen nothin' yet.
                    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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                    • Re: Rail Transit

                      Here's a question.

                      Are spaces for bicycles being considered aboard?

                      I haven't noticed it mentioned anywhere.
                      Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

                      Comment


                      • Re: on our soon to be rail tranisit

                        Originally posted by mapen View Post
                        At 5 billion dollars, this boondoggle is going to cost each family in Hawaii over $20,000, to include neighbor island familys who will not get any benefit from rail.
                        How does this affect neighbor islands? They don't have the extra 0.5% tax.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Rail Transit

                          Originally posted by Menehune Man View Post
                          Here's a question.

                          Are spaces for bicycles being considered aboard?

                          I haven't noticed it mentioned anywhere.
                          Many rail cars have the space for bikes located in the articulated half car that connects two cars. You hang the bike up on hooks and there are tire slots to keep the bike in place during transit.

                          Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                          I don't think you heard what I'm saying. Of course too many people cannot afford to live in town. What I am saying is that this needs to change. Putting different residential options for people of different levels of income in town and the surrounding areas is the best way to go. Planning only for high-end, expensive residences is poor planning and affects (negatively) the quality of life for everyone involved.

                          Sure, I know there are a lot of people who prefer the suburban life, but I'll bet a great number of people would choose to live in town if they could afford it. I'm saying that there's got to be a way to get those people into town. I know there's got to be a way, because there are successful cities on the mainland that make it work.
                          The only way there will be affordable units in town will be high density units. Which is fine to me but many people can't get past that.

                          Comment


                          • Rail Transit

                            Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                            How does this affect neighbor islands? They don't have the extra 0.5% tax.
                            Some businesses and their customers on the neighbor islands are negatively impacted by the .5% train tax.

                            From the State Tax Dept. FAQ

                            Neighbor island businesses (and out-of-state businesses) that deliver goods or services to Oahu, and have a 'physical presence' on Oahu, must pay the new 1/2% County Surcharge tax on their Oahu transactions. ('Physical presence' means, for example having an office on Oahu, an employee or agent on Oahu, or sales reps. traveling to Oahu to do business.)

                            In general, any income earned from any transaction related to an Oahu customer is subject to the 1/2% County Surcharge tax.

                            * Business activities that are subject to the 4% GE tax rate, such as retailing of goods & services, contracting, renting real property or tangible personal property, and interest income are also subject to the 1/2% County Surcharge tax.
                            The GE tax surcharge to pay for rail will not be enough to pay for the whole thing and the county will have to take more of our money through increased taxes at some future date. Details at this link: The Case Against Rail & More Taxes.
                            I'm still here. Are you?

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                            • Re: on our soon to be rail tranisit

                              Originally posted by mel View Post

                              HonoluluTraffic.com's Cliff Slater stated that the cost to build rail is close to $6.4 billion!

                              More at HonoluluTraffic.com
                              Mel, oh wow!~ that's about what I was guessing and just seeing this sign on stage with the fella and that number...okay....I underestimated, make that an unlucky never 7.............sigh.....the unions run everything up and they claim weather and all types of delays.

                              Good grief! Just picture me as the one muttering to myself as I walk away...confounded, looking as confused as Edith bunker at her worst moment......WHY rail?!! Why not double-decker highways and us all still in our cozy, private cars?! if every inch of hiway becomes double decker then you have twice the roadway. Is this too simple a concept? I like it! You also then have no arguing as to where rail does, or does not go.
                              Stop being lost in thought where our problems thrive.~

                              Comment


                              • Re: on our soon to be rail tranisit

                                Originally posted by Random View Post
                                The only way to stop people from using their cars is to stop offering fuels to them.
                                I take it you're not a big believer in Freedom and Liberty. Sorry, you're in the wrong country.

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