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  • Land Lease Renegotiation

    Aloha. My disabled, elderly friend owns a house on leased land in Kahalu'u. He has just been informed by the fee owner, Hawaii Housing Finance & Development Corp. (HHFDC), that his lease rent is going up from $500/year to $11,000/year.

    That's over 2,000% increase.

    Needless to say, living on disability, he can't even afford one month's lease payment at the new rate. Nor does he have any money to buy the fee.

    Does anyone know of any community associations that are helping folks in this situation? I suspect that this is going to be happening more and more, as some of these leases come up for renegotiation.

    Any leads would be much appreciated. Or links to places this has been discussed elsewhere? Mahalo.

  • #2
    Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

    I think he's got two choices:

    1) Sell.
    2) Band together with neighbors and go to the media.

    But at the end of the day, they own the land. I'm not too sure how much community groups will be able to help out long-term. Everyone is under pressure.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

      Thanks, GG. I'm trying to identify which neighbor's lands are still leased, but the honolulupropertytax.com web site wasn't working yesterday.

      I think selling would be almost impossible at this point, with the lease rent being raised so high. Who in their right mind would buy a property with a lease like that?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

        If your friend has owned for many years, is elderly and, as you say, disabled it wouldn't hurt to ask the land owner if there are any provisions for your friend to be grandfathered in to the old lease rent.

        I once owned a LH property when the rent was renegotiated and went sky high. The fee price was sky high, too. I ended up selling the property and my list price included the fee purchase. I sold the property in fee while still owning it in lease. The fee purchase price was paid thru escrow.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

          Originally posted by tutusue View Post
          If your friend has owned for many years, is elderly and, as you say, disabled it wouldn't hurt to ask the land owner if there are any provisions for your friend to be grandfathered in to the old lease rent.
          Absolutely can't hurk to ask. But if the owner already knows the leaseholder's age and went ahead with asking for a 2000% increase anyway, it sure doesn't sound like the owner wants that leaseholder to stick around. Sad, but what can you do?

          Organizations that can help your friend out with information and assistance? Here are some off the top of my head:

          Affordable Housing Alliance
          Kokua Council For Senior Citizens
          Catholic Charities Hawaii
          Salvation Army

          Making calls and inquiries to those good folks will get you started on the right track.

          Good luck to your friend.
          This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

            Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
            Absolutely can't hurk to ask. But if the owner already knows the leaseholder's age and went ahead with asking for a 2000% increase anyway, it sure doesn't sound like the owner wants that leaseholder to stick around. Sad, but what can you do? [...]
            I'm hoping there are policies in place for situations like this that land owners take a don't ask/don't tell stand on. My guess is, if other homes in the area are involved, a blanket letter went out to all the lessees even if the lessor knew of any extenuating circumstances. This is a moot point if DMM's friend's house is the only one involved. Still, the friend should make an inquiry.

            There's always a risk to purchasing LH property but often the risk can be worth it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

              if you check this link, you might find something helpful:

              http://hawaii.gov/dbedt/hhfdc/about/
              "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
              – Sydney J. Harris

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

                Whatever the written contract states is what will most likely prevail. The contract will state what options there are for renogotiation. And, sometimes the lease is not even open for renegotiation. Remember "The Kailuan" a year ago, those lease holders were completely out once the lease expired. In this current situation, it might be that the best outcome will just be a willingness by the owner to help relocate the leaseholder, which is not a perfect solution but something to consider as a backup plan.

                http://archives.starbulletin.com/200...s/story01.html
                Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

                  because the landowner appears to be a state government agency - there may be other remedies that will result in something other than final eviction. It will help if the gentleman in question has friends to help him (that looks to be the case) and is willing to fight back. A state agency has certain rules they must follow and guidelines to follow that may allow for some leeway. Also, contacting his legislators might help. Even contacting the newspapers can possibly help - the "power of the pen" can work wonders. Plus, this state agency is tasked with overseeing afforable housing, financing & development.

                  Good Luck!
                  "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
                  – Sydney J. Harris

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

                    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
                    if you check this link, you might find something helpful:

                    http://hawaii.gov/dbedt/hhfdc/about/
                    Hmmmmm. I didn't realize who the owner was. I'm not sure what kind of property this is, but I'm wondering if it isn't a large lot. The plan may be to drive him off the property so it can be redeveloped with more houses to fulfill the agency's mission. Can't make an omelet without breaking eggs and all that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

                      Their website has two bits of information that might give a lead:
                      1)The Hawaii Housing Finance and Development Corporation (HHFDC), is tasked with developing and financing low- and moderate-income housing projects and administering homeownership programs
                      2) Lease Rent Renegotiation Program
                      Do you need help renegotiating your single-family residential lease? Call (808) 587-0521..
                      Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

                        Originally posted by Amati View Post
                        Lease Rent Renegotiation Program
                        Do you need help renegotiating your single-family residential lease? Call (808) 587-0521..
                        So what happens when they try to negotiate with themselves? (cue the circus music.)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

                          Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
                          because the landowner appears to be a state government agency - there may be other remedies that will result in something other than final eviction. It will help if the gentleman in question has friends to help him (that looks to be the case) and is willing to fight back. A state agency has certain rules they must follow and guidelines to follow that may allow for some leeway. Also, contacting his legislators might help. Even contacting the newspapers can possibly help - the "power of the pen" can work wonders. Plus, this state agency is tasked with overseeing afforable housing, financing & development.
                          Problem is, they are "tasked with overseeing affordable (sic) housing, financing & development" for all the people that are eligible to be serviced by them, not just one. (The old man who is the leaseholder.)

                          If the old man talks to the right people, I am sure that the folks at this agency will help with finding him someplace to live, as per their mission. But that help might come in the form of arranging for him to relocate rather than help in staying in the house that he is presently in. I think Gecko is on the mark here re: the HHFDC's agenda.

                          So if the old man is amenable to relocating, I think everything will turn out okay. He's not going to end up being homeless. But if he's determined to stay put in his old house, I don't know if he'll be able to count on help from the HHFDC for that, especially if they have a new project in mind for that property. If he wants to save his house, he may likely need assistance and counsel from someone outside that particular state agency.
                          This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

                            Originally posted by Amati View Post
                            Whatever the written contract states is what will most likely prevail. The contract will state what options there are for renogotiation. And, sometimes the lease is not even open for renegotiation. Remember "The Kailuan" a year ago, those lease holders were completely out once the lease expired.
                            The case of the Kailuan is slightly different from the situation DMM's friend is facing. The Kailuan was a co-op, and so it did not fall under the state's mandatory lease-to-fee conversion law. But DMM's friend lives in a house. So if he wanted to proceed with a mandatory lease-to-fee conversion with the land owner, he can. The problem (as the original post said) is that the leaseholder does not have the money to purchase the fee.

                            Originally posted by Amati View Post
                            In this current situation, it might be that the best outcome will just be a willingness by the owner to help relocate the leaseholder, which is not a perfect solution but something to consider as a backup plan.
                            That was exactly what I was thinking. That, or hopefully appealing for a short-term lease extension at an affordable rent so that man can live out the rest of his life in that house. But it all depends on what the owner's plans are for the property. If it is a time sensitive matter (as it usually is whenever it comes to real estate development), it's not going to make it easy for that old house to be saved.
                            This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Land Lease Renegotiation

                              Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                              [...]But it all depends on what the owner's plans are for the property. If it is a time sensitive matter (as it usually is whenever it comes to real estate development), it's not going to make it easy for that old house to be saved.
                              IF the lessor has plans for the property, would the lessor even offer the lessee the option of purchasing his fee simple interest? Or, is offering that option legally mandated? Again, if the lessor has plans for the property what would happen if the lessee had the money and opted to purchase the fee? I know the lessee doesn't have the money. It's just a hypothetical question!

                              Comment

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