Racial divide and schools?

[Miulang]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

You don't live here. How do you know what Hawaii residents call themselves? By the vacations you take and ex-residents you talk to on the mainland?

Hawaii people don't use "Japanese-American," "Chinese-American" or "Filipino-American." They use "Japanee," "Chinee" and "Flip."

You're not local anymore. Stop trying to act like you are.

Honi soit qui mal y pense. Double.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Honi soit qui mal y pense. Double.

Go ahead and bust out the French. There's no shame in my game.

You're not local. Stop trying to act like you are.

[Keanu]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

You don't live here. How do you know what Hawaii residents call themselves? By the vacations you take and ex-residents you talk to on the mainland?

Hawaii people don't use "Japanese-American," "Chinese-American" or "Filipino-American." They use "Japanee," "Chinee" and "Flip."

You're not local anymore. Stop trying to act like you are.

Miulang said might refer to themselves as. For the record, I've never heard a filipino person refer to themself as a "flip".Others may use that term referring to someone of Filipino ancestry but the filipinos I know would prefer Pinoy/Pinay to "flip".

Why all the hostility towards Miulang?

[Palolo Joe]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

For the record, I've never heard a filipino person refer to themself as a "flip".Others may use that term referring to someone of Filipino ancestry but the filipinos I know would prefer Pinoy/Pinay to "flip".

Well, I'm going with what my part-Filipino family members here in Hawaii use. And while they also use Pinoy/Pinay, they most definitely use Flip to describe themselves and others of Filipino ancestry.

[Lei Liko]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Well, I'm going with what my part-Filipino family members here in Hawaii use. And while they also use Pinoy/Pinay, they most definitely use Flip to describe themselves and others of Filipino ancestry.

I've never, ever called myself "Flip" and I'm half Filipino. My mother (who hails from Badoc, Ilocos Norte) has never called herself that, either. I don't think I've ever called other Filipinos that and I don't know how any else can.

For the record, I've never used "Pinay" either. Others might disagree with me, but I hate that damn word.

Miulang definitely hit the nail on the head.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

I don't think I've ever called other Filipinos that and I don't know how any else can.

Guess my plantation roots aren't good enough for you. Does that mean you use the term "Filipino-American" exclusively when addressing your own ethnic background?

[Keith H.]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

You prove no point, just make disparaging remarks that serve your agenda. It might be "unfair" but that's a different argument and a concept very familiar to Native Hawaiians. These are not "some dictionaries" or "whatever" but two of the most authoritative sources of American usage. With this attitude you can pretty much dispute everything from evolution to the Holocaust.

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that one "authoritative source of American usage" trumps both of them, namely the AP Stylebook, used by thousands of newspapers and periodicals nationwide:

Outside the state, few people know that all Hawaii residents are not Hawaiians. For years, "The Associated Press Stylebook" and libel manual, a guide commonly used by newspapers around the country, said there was no difference.

That has changed.

The AP has informed its member organizations of an update to the stylebook on the use of the term "Hawaiian." From now on, Hawaiians will be used only to describe members of the ethnic group indigenous to the Hawaiian Islands. "Hawaii resident" or "islander" describes anyone who lives in the state.

Previously, "Hawaiians" could be used to describe residents of Hawaii.

The stylebook is a collection of rules on the use of language to provide a uniform and understandable presentation of stories run by member news organizations.

http://starbulletin.com/print/2005.p...s/story10.html

The story goes on to say this. It does acknowledge the Webster's dictionary usage. But it's interesting to note just what (or more precisely, who) precipitated the change.

AP Honolulu Bureau Chief Dave Briscoe said, "We've actually been trying to get a change for years."

He said the use of "Hawaiian" becomes an issue whenever a prominent person from Hawaii makes national or international news. He said the bureau has had to change Hawaiian to Hawaii resident in stories originating on the mainland describing teenage golfer Michelle Wie.

Wie is an American of Korean ancestry. She is also a Hawaii resident.

Briscoe said he had difficulty persuading AP to make the change, because the organization bases much of its stylebook on dictionary definitions. According to Webster's New World Dictionary, Hawaiian is a native or inhabitant of Hawaii.

If it's good enough for AP, it's good enough for me.

[PoiBoy]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

reineke- You are not Hawaiian or Kanaka Maoli. If you need to look into an American dictionary to define who you are .....then I feel sorry for you.

Palolo Joe-Lei Liko- I have heard Filipinos call themselves a whole lota things.
Flip,Filipino,Pinay,Pinoy,Filipino-American,....and even Polynesian and even Hawaiian.

I also noticed that alot of Filipino-Americans talk crap and look down upon Filipinos from the Philipines. I never understood that. Can someone explain that one to me?
I mean....
I crack a joke or two with the Samoan usos straight off the boat but I never ostracize or try to distance myself from them. I view all Samoans as one people. So I never understood why Filipino-Americans try to distance themselves from Filipinos.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Palolo Joe-Lei Liko- I have heard Filipinos call themselves a whole lota things.
Flip,Filipino,Pinay,Pinoy,Filipino-American,....and even Polynesian and even Hawaiian.

I also noticed that alot of Filipino-Americans talk crap and look down upon Filipinos from the Philipines. I never understood that. Can someone explain that one to me?

straight from a hawaii-born filipina who does call herself both "pinay" and "flip" as well as "fili" and "filipina-american" as well as "of filipino-spanish ancestry"--

part of the self-hatred (to put it bluntly) comes from the tendency of filipinos to see each other as competition versus as a brother or sister. i'm no expert on filipino history, but if i am not mistaken, part of this is because even before the spaniards came, the various ethnic groups of the PI islands were often in conflict. the spaniards made this worse--children borne of mixed blood were seen as more beautiful than the "pure" filipinos. this is exceedingly evident in filipino movies--light skinned mestizos/mestizas make it huge. i remember recently seeing an australian-filipino (meaning, borne of caucasian australian and filipino parents) was on a fairly popular f-drama. the poor guy's tagalog accent was worse than mine would ever be, if ever i learned tagalog, and his acting was slightly better than mine if i would ever be foolish enough take the stage. furthermore, as i recently discovered, the spaniards sometimes forced filipinos to take on spanish last names, whether the family members had "co-mingled" with the spanish or not. keep in mind also that the PI is very class-aware: most "non-poor" (cause there is a huge dichotomy of rich v. poor and very few "middle class") filipino families have servants.

another thing is that being filipino is complicated in the sense that the filipino ethnicity, in and of itself, is complicated. we're malay, from hundreds of islands both sorta isolated yet also very accessible to mainland asia, we've been invaded by both the spanish and americans, who have both greatly influenced our culture. while the chinese never colonized the PI the way americans and spaniards did, the chinese have asserted an influence also (lumpia and pancit, anyone?).

in hawaii, second generations of any ethnicity tend to distance themselves greatly from those of the first generation out of a desire to fit in.

by the way, i'd heard of lots of filipinos who deny their heritage--calling themselves "pacific islanders" (i see that a lot on myspace, and i want to hit such children with a very heavy hard-covered atlas) or "hawaiian" or only "spanish" or "chinese" or "hawaiian chinese spanish." unfortunately, until the likes of lou diamond phillips, rob schneider, and apl from the black eyed peas, it wasn't cool to be pinoy. i'm glad that's changing.

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

You STILL don't get it. If the people to whom you refer want to be addressed in a certain way, then why not respect them and do as they ask?

You can NEVER be Hawaiian in the eyes of the kanaka maoli. To insist that definition 1b is valid is to perpetuate the same damned misconception that people on CONUS have about who is/is not Hawaiian.

If you are not born of kanaka maoli blood, you will never be Hawaiian. Period. Even if you were born in Hawai'i and lived there all your life, as long as you don't have any kanaka maoli blood in you, you will never be Hawaiian. You will be a kama'aina, a local, an islander, or a person from Hawaii, but never a Hawaiian. ...

Miulang

LOL you're not exactly helping your own argument If someone wants to be called Hawaiian, it's certainly not because he hates the islands or its people. Why force bureaucratic constructs on them? Hawaiian resident? Person from Hawaii? Come on.

Hawaiian can mean both things and the second definition does not make a claim on anyone's ancestry (you'll certainly remember that little discussion on multiple meanings in the English language). Another point I'd like to make is that people will call themselves what they want. That's very difficult to prevent and official designations imposed from above (even in the name of political correctness) invariably create strong resentment and outright animosity. If the general population does not really care, well then it's all a moot point and the few "weirdos" who call themselves Hawaiian (when they're clearly not) are an eccentric minority.

[Miulang]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

LOL you're not exactly helping your own argument If someone wants to be called Hawaiian, it's certainly not because he hates the islands or its people. Why force bureaucratic constructs on them? Hawaiian resident? Person from Hawaii? Come on.
.

Call yourself what you like, but be careful when you visit Hawai'i how you identify yourself. Depending on which beach you tread upon, some real kanaka "bruddahs" might disavow you of your claim to be Hawaiian.

Whenever anyone on CONUS asks me if I'm Hawaiian because I come from Hawai'i, and even though to them I look Hawaiian, I tell them no, just because I was born and raised in Hawai'i, please don't call me Hawaiian because I don't have any Hawaiian blood in me. I consider it part of a malihini's education. It's hard for you to understand the nuance because you weren't born there.

Miulang

P.S. What they sometimes call a malihini who swears he loves everything about Hawai'i so much that he is also Hawaiian: "Hawaiian wanna-be".

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

I bear no ill will. I realize I sounded gruff - for a good reason. What I wrote stands. The pot calling the kettle black was funny but undeserved.

[PoiBoy]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Call yourself what you like, but be careful when you visit Hawai'i how you identify yourself. Depending on which beach you tread upon, some real kanaka "bruddahs" might disavow you of your claim to be Hawaiian.


Miulang

oh yes! He will get put in his place real quick!

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

reineke- You are not Hawaiian or Kanaka Maoli. If you need to look into an American dictionary to define who you are .....then I feel sorry for you.

Palolo Joe-Lei Liko- I have heard Filipinos call themselves a whole lota things.
Flip,Filipino,Pinay,Pinoy,Filipino-American,....and even Polynesian and even Hawaiian.

I also noticed that alot of Filipino-Americans talk crap and look down upon Filipinos from the Philipines. I never understood that. Can someone explain that one to me?
I mean....
I crack a joke or two with the Samoan usos straight off the boat but I never ostracize or try to distance myself from them. I view all Samoans as one people. So I never understood why Filipino-Americans try to distance themselves from Filipinos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
Call yourself what you like, but be careful when you visit Hawai'i how you identify yourself. Depending on which beach you tread upon, some real kanaka "bruddahs" might disavow you of your claim to be Hawaiian.

Miulang
oh yes! He will get put in his place real quick!

Poiboy, conserve your love of humanity for someone else. I made it very clear I was an outsider and that I needed to learn more about Hawaii and its people. My personal identity is totally irrelevant but I certainly never claimed to even feel Hawaiian out of some misplaced touchy-feely sense of belonging. Why did you find it necessary then to underscore the fact that I wasn't Hawaiian nor of Hawaiian blood? Is that the automatic disqualification to discuss or question anything you feel is your sole province of expertise?

Why did you suggest that I was looking for identity in dusty old books? To demean and discredit what I have to say? What's with the high school bully threats? I would prefer to engage in a friendly discussion with grown-ups.

I believe people can be Hawaiian and Filipino or Filipino-American and Hawaiian, just Hawaiian, just Filipino and get along. They can certainly call themselves both and be proud of both. Or not. I respect the opinion that Hawaiian can only mean one thing. I disagree, but I have no problem accepting it especially if I see that most people think this way as well. I might even change my mind about the subject - that should give you an idea how much I personally care - however I will always insist on respecting people's choices. I believe one's genuine feeling of belonging and identity as Hawaiian (or anything else) trumps what others think he or she should (or shouldn't) be called.

You have made some sweeping generalizations about Filipino-Americans. I know very little about this particular subject but the superior class attitude you describe exists in many countries.

Muilang, cheers to you in Seattle. Honi soit qui mal y pense is an old French motto from English crown's "Most Noble Order of the Garter." Firstly, that's as gay as hell. Secondly, are you suggesting some kind of nobility and exclusive membership?

I have another one for you and your imaginary burly kanaka avenger. Nemo me impune lacessit. And that comes from someone who has discussed ethnic issues over artillery fire. Fight your own battles.

[Miulang]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

I have another one for you and your imaginary burly kanaka avenger. Nemo me impune lacessit. And that comes from someone who has discussed ethnic issues over artillery fire. Fight your own battles.

Not "imaginary" burly kanaka avenger. Foa reals kanaka avenger, maybe wit a few Samoan and Tongan brahs. Illigimiti non carborundum.

Miulang