Star-Bulletin on the Web

[Composite 2992]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Guess you wern't around for the 40 years of the old Goss press that the HNA (or your beloved Advertiser as it is today) printed on either. Does ANYBODY remember how bad it was??? AMAZINGLY....Gannett decided to finally replace the press that had VERY limited color positions and just god awful reproduction in general (made MW look like USAT on its worst day) a few weeks after Black bought an offset press...ya'all have really really really short and convienent memories.....go ahead...keep rooting for Goliath. You will get what you deserve. Already you are getting a much smaller percentage of news (but lots of color) and coming soon they will give you a much smaller broadsheet paper that will save them millions in newsprint costs...oh and they raised the price...

I know that press very, very well. Gannett named it the best letterpress operation in their entire newspaper chain based on the color reproduction demonstrated by the Star-Bulletin (the Advertiser never did get it right with the old press).

The daytime crew worked very hard to wring what they could out of that press, and a tight sense of teamwork developed among the people involved in the production process.

Keep in mind that the Hoe and Goss presses were letterpresses. MidWeek's Urbanite and Gannet's press in Kapolei are offset.

I'm not rooting for goliath. I have good reasons to do the opposite. I'm recounting an accurate history and setting the record straight.

[buzz1941]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

One of the things I love about David Black is how much he loves presses. He's like one of those locomotive buff. Whenever he's in town he's invariably climbing around the press with a wrench in his hand and ink/grease on his overalls!

[Media Guy]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

I'm also not trying to be an ass, but why do I have to root for either paper?
I understand the staff at Oahu Publications and the Advertiser work hard, and many jobs are on the line.
I've know many of the employees and former at both papers personally for over 25 years, even going back to the Sun Press years, but I and everyone else should be able to complain about what we don't like.

Maybe its because I have no personal or financial allegiance to either paper (except a bunch of Gannett stock that dropped from $33 to $3 a share), I don't take anyone's criticism about them personally, or see them as a cause, good or evil. They're just daily newspapers in which I've made a decision to spend less and less of my advertising dollars because of their declining and aging demographics. I also rely on them less and less for information except on local issues, sports and news.

[808golfer]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

I'm also not trying to be an ass, but why do I have to root for either paper?
I understand the staff at Oahu Publications and the Advertiser work hard, and many jobs are on the line.
I've know many of the employees and former at both papers personally for over 25 years, even going back to the Sun Press years, but I and everyone else should be able to complain about what we don't like.

Maybe its because I have no personal or financial allegiance to either paper (except a bunch of Gannett stock that dropped from $33 to $3 a share), I don't take anyone's criticism about them personally, or see them as a cause, good or evil. They're just daily newspapers in which I've made a decision to spend less and less of my advertising dollars because of their declining and aging demographics. I also rely on them less and less for information except on local issues, sports and news.

OK....I can buy that. Enough said. I obviously don't like ANYTHING about Gannett, no fault of the folks at the Tizer though. They just do what they are told. I do like making a buck though (hey times are tough!) and I must say the current price of their stock is quite attractive. I just bought 5,000 shares. Not even the top analysts saw this coming....so how much can the down side be?? I'm betting (that's what buying stocks really is...let's face it) we've seen the bottom or close to it....

I do respect your right to be critical. I get it. However, I will say for the last and final time though that often on this thread there isn't enough appreciation of the ENORMOUS differences in resources (both in people and in dollars) that are available to the two papers. THA has a HUGE advantage in both. PAU.

[Media Guy]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

I agree with you, and I know the tremendous effort put forth by the people of the Star Bulletin. I also know many of the decisions aren't made by the rank-n-file employees, but by upper management on the fifth floor (don't get me started on that subject).

I also agree that Gannett stock is a great buy right now. Unlike the Tribune Co. and other large chains, Gannett doesn't have a huge, insurmountable debt burden.
I started buying it because I'd gone to grad school with Dan Neuharth (Al's son). I also decided to be in the media business instead working for the media after meeting him. Several years later he spent a year at UH as a visiting journalism professor and we used to joke about our journalism careers going horrible wrong, (he's a marriage & family therapist now).

It's easy to get caught up in the whole David vs Goliath newspaper saga, but underneath it all are hundreds of Hawaii's men and women just trying to do their jobs and make a living in a very uncertain economic time at a medium that is equally uncertain. I give my wholehearted best wishes to all of them, at both papers.

But lastly, I still think the SB website needs some reworking

[buzz1941]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

I also rely on them less and less for information except on local issues, sports and news.

Imagine, getting news from a newspaper!

But lastly, I still think the SB website needs some reworking

Keep complaining. People are listening. They may think you're wrong -- and you might be -- but a barometer of public opinion is always helpful.

A question for y'all out there who would rather get local news from a free and uncluttered Web site rather than from a printed newspaper that costs a few cents -- are you the one who does the shopping in the house? How do you find out about local sales bargains, and where do you get your coupons?

[Media Guy]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

I meant "local news, local sports and local issues," but I read it online. Nothing to do with price, I've just migrated to online news over the years for almost everything, except PBN because they require a paper subscription in order to read the full online edition (not a bad idea for the Bulletin). We just leave in the reception area of the office.
I had home subscription for both papers for years, but they just started to pile up when things went online. I still get it for the office though.

Speaking as the co-shopper in my household, we're a Costco family and online shoppers. Not much for coupon clipping, just the two of us nowadays, we have a empty nest, but point taken.
Thus the secret of MidWeek's success.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

A question for y'all out there who would rather get local news from a free and uncluttered Web site rather than from a printed newspaper that costs a few cents -- are you the one who does the shopping in the house? How do you find out about local sales bargains, and where do you get your coupons?

eric and i both do the shopping, but neither one of us have ever been coupon clippers. we have certain shops we like to go to for certain things, and since we've been going to those stores for years, we have a pretty good idea of when something will go on sale. for example, it's uncanny how longs seems to put angel soft toilet paper on sale just when we're on our third to last or penultimate roll.

for most stores we go to with any frequency, we're already on an email list so we get notified of sales even before the general public sees any notice in the paper. the big grocery stores, if i'm not mistaken, all make their weekly sales inserts available online. safeway's site, for example, allows you to make a shopping list based on what they have on sale that you can print or cut & paste into an email or text message you can send to your phone ooh! i just looked at their website, and apparently, you can now even download coupons directly to your safeway club card, i just discovered! not sure how that works yet tho. i will add here that eric and i make a habit of visiting the grocer stand on 9th and waialae or the farmer's markets or chinatown for many of our veggie & fruit needs, and there are never any coupons for that.

the more i think about it, the accessibility of weekly store specials online confirms i made the right decision years ago to discontinue my midweek subscription, which i canceled partially because issues of it would lay around my condo for weeks, unread. but the biggest reason i canceled it was because i couldn't stand the idea that michelle malkin was ostensibly being invited into my home every week. bleh.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

A question for y'all out there who would rather get local news from a free and uncluttered Web site rather than from a printed newspaper that costs a few cents

I still get most of my news from paper. I read the one in the lunch room. I spend too much time on the computer as it is.

Newspaper has a bigger "screen" that allows me to see more without a bunch of clicking around.

are you the one who does the shopping in the house? How do you find out about local sales bargains, and where do you get your coupons?

Yes. I look in the paper. That's one of my complaints about the website (any website). It just doesn't seem to have the screen real estate to provide pictures to draw my eyes ("oh, I want, I want") It seems no one has perfected the way of getting the ads I want to me.

I've never been a coupon guy, but give me a good deal and I'll do it.

Oh, and the main thing I want in my news is to be the forth branch of government - to keep an eye on the other 3 and keep them in line. Forget Brittney.

[808golfer]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

I agree with you, and I know the tremendous effort put forth by the people of the Star Bulletin. I also know many of the decisions aren't made by the rank-n-file employees, but by upper management on the fifth floor (don't get me started on that subject).

I also agree that Gannett stock is a great buy right now. Unlike the Tribune Co. and other large chains, Gannett doesn't have a huge, insurmountable debt burden.
I started buying it because I'd gone to grad school with Dan Neuharth (Al's son). I also decided to be in the media business instead working for the media after meeting him. Several years later he spent a year at UH as a visiting journalism professor and we used to joke about our journalism careers going horrible wrong, (he's a marriage & family therapist now).

It's easy to get caught up in the whole David vs Goliath newspaper saga, but underneath it all are hundreds of Hawaii's men and women just trying to do their jobs and make a living in a very uncertain economic time at a medium that is equally uncertain. I give my wholehearted best wishes to all of them, at both papers.

But lastly, I still think the SB website needs some reworking

I don't know of a single company that makes decisions based "on the rank in file"....do you?? What are you saying? Company decisions should be put up to vote?? really?? You think the "rank and file" is qualified to manage the company?? I do agree with you though Media Guy on one thing....best wishes to both sides...in the end (and there will be one) there will be no winners and no losers....just more unemployed people.

[Media Guy]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

I wasn't saying it should be put up to a vote, I was saying that I know they just do as told. The "don't get me started" comment was in regards to the revolving door of president/publishers at the beginning, and basically the old Advertiser sales management that now runs sales at Star Bulletin.
No knock on them, its just strange when the people who were knocking the Star Bulletin and telling you that the Advertiser is the best advertising venue for you and your clients turn around and say, oh now it's the Star Bulletin/MidWeek and the tiser is evil. Comes across as a bit disingenuous at first blush.

[TuNnL]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

A question for y'all out there who would rather get local news from a free and uncluttered Web site rather than from a printed newspaper that costs a few cents -- are you the one who does the shopping in the house? How do you find out about local sales bargains, and where do you get your coupons?

we're a Costco family and online shoppers. Not much for coupon clipping, just the two of us nowadays, we have a empty nest, but point taken.
Thus the secret of MidWeek's success.

My sentiments, exactly. Another fringe benefit of Black buying MidWeek, which counts me as a subscriber. But alas, that hasn’t seemed to translate into additional ad revenue for SB. And like both Media Guy and cynsaligia have pointed out, stores are going online with their coupons and ad bargains. Hey, no need to look for the scissors. Just print, and go! Believe me, I feel for the SB employees on the content side. They are just innocent bystanders in all this. The good guys, so to speak. But while I’m rooting for David, I’m honest enough to admit Goliath has already won. If SB was going to make a stand, they needed to do it yesterday. Now that they have conceded the head-to-head strategy, they need to think about preserving a niche market.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

I don't know of a single company that makes decisions based "on the rank in file"....do you??

If they don't at least listen to the rank and file, then they are fools. The rank and file know more about doing their job than any expert. But don't take my word on it. Ask the expert in quality, Dr. Deming.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Oh, and the main thing I want in my news is to be the forth branch of government - to keep an eye on the other 3 and keep them in line. Forget Brittney.

Please allow me to applaud you for stating that. I prefer news in my newspapers, thank you.

[buzz1941]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Oh, and the main thing I want in my news is to be the forth branch of government - to keep an eye on the other 3 and keep them in line. Forget Brittney.

Britney who?

Journalism is the only industry specifically mentioned by the Founding Fathers, because it's so important to have an informed electorate. Which is probably why the right-wingers started blaming the media for everything back in the '70s. Shoot the messenger!