Star-Bulletin on the Web

[Media Guy]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

In checking out your observation, I've found that placing the SB in my browser's "restricted sites" strips off not just the annoying ad, but all the ads in the right column as well as all the AP stuff. Seems to do a good job of decluttering the site. Loads faster too.

Ok, now I'm a happy camper!
Pop ups gone, switched to the mobile version for my Blackberry, complaints done for now.
That was simple, why didn't someone just suggest that three pages ago?

[cynsaligia]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

come march 1st, any complaints regarding the SB website will be more likely than they are now not to be acted upon as the staff of four webmasters will be cut down to two.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

BTW, the pop-ups and other Web design things aren't Star-Bulletin decisions. They're handed down from corporate.

Ah, another sore spot. Out of curiosity, from a reader's point of view, what benefit is there to "corporate"? Are they just tyrants who demand "more profits", or do they actually give something to Hawaii's readers in return?

I suspect much of journalism's ruination is Wall Street. A look at the transcript of Long Story Short with Bob Sevey that airs tonight seems to support that.

I think some outlets are experimenting with a non-profit model. It will be interesting to see how that progresses.

The day they cost us more than they bring in, they'll vanish.

The only way I can see them "costing" more than expected is in lost readers. Unfortunately, the day the numbers revel it - it's too late. The damage is done.

If S-B's not going to change their annoying marketing tactics, then what setting could other readers apply to these annoyances?

In checking out your observation, I've found that placing the SB in my browser's "restricted sites" strips off not just the annoying ad, but all the ads in the right column as well as all the AP stuff. Seems to do a good job of decluttering the site. Loads faster too.

[tutusue]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

[...]
Some people don't like them -- freeloaders! -- but most people simply accept them as the cost of obtaining content.[...]

Exactly!

This issue reminds me of the time, several years ago, when I was whining about spam to the owner of a computer business in my building. He listened then calmly offered his simple 'fix'..."Just hit the delete key." Of course, I'd been doing that but it was his "ain't no beeg ting" demeanor that resonated with me. Now I just click on the 'close ad' button.

[buzz1941]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

BTW, the pop-ups and other Web design things aren't Star-Bulletin decisions. They're handed down from corporate. Essentially, that adds another layer to response time, but they are listening to your complaints, and have tweaked things.

Some people don't like them -- freeloaders! -- but most people simply accept them as the cost of obtaining content.

The day they cost us more than they bring in, they'll vanish.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

When the day comes that ANY newspaper shuts down because they couldn't make a go of the internet site it will likely be when most of us are gone....

That day is coming faster than you think. The Christian Science Monitor no longer has a print edition. Other newspapers might follow down that path, too.

The newspaper industry has to change its along with the way its readers are changing.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Well, just for the record, some of us users thought that moderators were reading every post. While that's not the practice on every discussion board, it's certainly that way on the vast majority.

The vBulletin "report post" link may seem like just one more unecessary bell & whistle, but if moderators aren't going to be on the spot within a few hours then maybe the link would make it easier to notify the management. But I guess we could also try retraining every poster... one at a time.

I used "Contact us" to send a note to Admin which got a very quick response in the thread. But apparently he didn't pass the message.

I don't see anything where I'm supposed to know that I have to PM a particular moderator depending on the section.

As far as I'm concerned, the process is broken. The board I moderate has the icon, and it triggers a email to the moderators. It may only do it to those who moderate that section.

But what I don't understand is how they're getting through popup blockers, HOSTS files, or whatever filters that IE6 provides. My browser is probably among the least sophisticated (certainly the least stable) hunks of software on a computer, but I've never seen a S-B popup ad. I never even see an ad on sites that insist on showing you something before you're allowed to proceed to their main web page.

It's Flash. If you don't have Flash installed or enabled, then it can't do it's annoying thing. (And why are you still on IE6? Running Win2000?)


Ran across an interesting piece on Slate - Not All Information Wants To Be Free

[Nords]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Just for the record, no one here emailed or PM me about some of the earlier posts in the revival of this thread.

Well, just for the record, some of us users thought that moderators were reading every post. While that's not the practice on every discussion board, it's certainly that way on the vast majority.

The vBulletin "report post" link may seem like just one more unecessary bell & whistle, but if moderators aren't going to be on the spot within a few hours then maybe the link would make it easier to notify the management. But I guess we could also try retraining every poster... one at a time.

There is another thread in the Hawaii Internet section that addressed the same issues regarding the pop ups.
Several months later the issue pops up again. Clearly some readers of the site are not happy.
Since the pop ups are still an issue, several things I have done.
1. I don't go to the main site page and links as often as I used to.
2. I use the mobile site which so far is text only with some pictures but no pop ups. In fact the mobile site has no ads.
3. When I link to certain S-B stories, I now link to the mobile site to spare readers from the wrath of the pop-ups.
4. Since S-B is still forcing readers to pop-up ads, I have voted with my feet and read news and blogs from other online sources.
5. Lastly there are several places where you can get the paper edition of S-B of the low price of "free" (one of them is Burger King).

I understand that popups are annoying-- no issue there.

But what I don't understand is how they're getting through popup blockers, HOSTS files, or whatever filters that IE6 provides. My browser is probably among the least sophisticated (certainly the least stable) hunks of software on a computer, but I've never seen a S-B popup ad. I never even see an ad on sites that insist on showing you something before you're allowed to proceed to their main web page.

If S-B's not going to change their annoying marketing tactics, then what setting could other readers apply to these annoyances?

[Media Guy]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Oh yeah, just to belabor my point, I'd bet when the unions went over the Advertiser's books there were huge impairment charges for "goodwill."

Goodwill is very hard to define because they are intangible assets and have "intrinsic value, such as a strong brand name, good customer relations, good employee relations and any patents or proprietary technology.

It is easy to say those lost whatever value a company wants to assign (millions).
Gannett would spread this charge over all of its various operating units.

[Media Guy]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

I stated "not to mention depreciation."
It's called cost segregation. Using this method, buyers view a real estate acquisition as consisting not only of land and buildings but also tangible personal property and land improvements. The tax savings come from accelerated depreciation deductions and easier property write-offs. A taxpayer can use cost segregation when constructing a building, buying an existing one, or, in certain circumstances, years after disposing of one so long as the year of disposition still is open under the statute of limitations.
The recovery period can range from 5 -39 years, and now section 179 of the tax code is even less strigent with the recently passed stimulus package.
There are many more charges the company can take as well.

Believe me I get it! I've been doing this for a long time. I'm not implying that the Unions or the workers got duped or anything, its all above board. That's how business is done and why good accounting firms get $450 a hour.

If you own a business, land and buildings you'd get it too, but let's not get tied up in tax code minutiae.

I am one of the customers that spends many thousands of dollars with both papers, and I'm simply stating my displeasure with the Star Bulletin. I, and even people who don't advertise in the paper have that right.

The Star Bulletin isn't ready to take off the pop ups because even it they only represents 3 to 8% of its revenue, they still need every penny to continue to survive. I get that too, but I still have a right to complain.

[808golfer]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

It's kind of a misnomer that the Advertiser is losing money when in fact its parent company, Gannett is not actually losing money, but has lower profits and its stock has lost about 90% of its value. I know, I own a bunch which is now almost worthless.

Up until a year ago the Advertiser was one of Gannett's most profitable papers. It even won a award from the company for its profitability. You have to remember the Advertiser has a $90 million printing facility on its books, which can be deducted as capital expense for the next 20 years. Not to mention depreciation. Its all a matter of accounting!

No one is complaining about the Advertiser's website because it "doesn't" have pop ups. That's kind of the whole point.

If they don't want to listen to their customers then why should I support them? If they fail, its because they aren't meeting the needs of the people who keep them in business. I like living in a two paper town, but I'm not going to support a paper I don't want to read or a website I don't find useful.

Sorry, but it's hard for me to believe that the SB isn't listening to their customers. Someone earlier said: which customer? the ones not paying a dime or the ones paying thousands of dollars and apparently getting results cuz they are still there and growing....it's real simple: if it wasn't working for the advertiser they wouldn't pay. And if you really think SIX unions representing over 500 employees voted to take a 10% pay cut cuz the company isnt making money because of the depreciation expense adjustment then you are probably never gonna get it. by the way, you can only depreciate the eqiupment....not the land and building. so your 80 mil is way off...BUT whatever. When the day comes that ANY newspaper shuts down because they couldn't make a go of the internet site it will likely be when most of us are gone....as i said earlier, newspapers are already seeing sales declines in internet revenues.....and in the sum of things you're talking about pennies VS dollars.... POPS or no POPS. I have one last question: If pop up ads are so the death rattle for newspapers then why on a site like this ( Hawaii Threads) with access to so many do you only hear from the same 6 or 7 people?? I'm guessing if the SB received thousands of complaints it might get their attention.....again...I doubt that very much.

[Media Guy]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Yeah the SB pop ups CAN BE annoying to SOME people but like most things in life....not to ALL. When the SB first launched the POPS everyone was saying "hey, where's the close button"? Shortly thereafter, a close button appears, so seems to me they are trying to serve both masters. I think everyone is losing sight of just how lucky the SB is to even still be alive and they should support them anyway they can to make money and keep the paper alive. If that means taking a couple extra seconds to hit a close button then do it for gods sake. Let's face it, The Hono Tizer just accepted large wage reductions across the board.....CUZ THEY ARE LOSING MONEY....begs the question...if the big bad full of print ads and on line business is so good for them but they still can't make it.....then how do ya think the SB is doing???? Midweek is good but it can't be that good......All I'm saying people is cut them a little slack...I dont see anyone being critical of the Tizer so they must be the role model.....except they are losing money...oh...right... so maybe not so much. Also, ya really gotta love it when someone says "why can't they be like the NEW YORK TIMES"....probably the same reason L and L Drive Inn is never gonna be Alan Wongs... Finally, those that would like to respond, please do. You may not like or agree with what I have to say but no need to tell me to go F myself like the SB's old webmaster did earlier. The way I see it....it started a meaningful discussion for the first time on this site in a long time. So, I guess that's a good thing. I realize I'm outside the circle of the 6 or 7 of you who regularly respond but another viewpoint might be interesting from time to time. Oh, almost forgot. A couple of the LOCAL TV websites have pop ups that briefly block the news content... AND they ALL have national and international news stories (more then local if you count only stories from that day)....ok, I'm done. Fire away....

It's kind of a misnomer that the Advertiser is losing money when in fact its parent company, Gannett is not actually losing money, but has lower profits and its stock has lost about 90% of its value. I know, I own a bunch which is now almost worthless.

Up until a year ago the Advertiser was one of Gannett's most profitable papers. It even won a award from the company for its profitability. You have to remember the Advertiser has a $90 million printing facility on its books, which can be deducted as capital expense for the next 20 years. Not to mention depreciation. Its all a matter of accounting!

No one is complaining about the Advertiser's website because it "doesn't" have pop ups. That's kind of the whole point.

If they don't want to listen to their customers then why should I support them? If they fail, its because they aren't meeting the needs of the people who keep them in business. I like living in a two paper town, but I'm not going to support a paper I don't want to read or a website I don't find useful.

[mel]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Just for the record, no one here emailed or PM me about some of the earlier posts in the revival of this thread.

There is another thread in the Hawaii Internet section that addressed the same issues regarding the pop ups.

Several months later the issue pops up again. Clearly some readers of the site are not happy.

Last year I did email some of the people at S-B regarding my opinions of the intrusive pop-ups. While I disagreed with their answers, at least they wrote back.

Since the pop ups are still an issue, several things I have done.

1. I don't go to the main site page and links as often as I used to.
2. I use the mobile site which so far is text only with some pictures but no pop ups. In fact the mobile site has no ads.
3. When I link to certain S-B stories, I now link to the mobile site to spare readers from the wrath of the pop-ups.
4. Since S-B is still forcing readers to pop-up ads, I have voted with my feet and read news and blogs from other online sources.
5. Lastly there are several places where you can get the paper edition of S-B of the low price of "free" (one of them is Burger King).

We'll see what ramps up when the paper format changes to the smaller tabloid.

[buzz1941]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Apparently, SB isn’t sophisticated enough to understand (or too cheap to afford) the value of this type of marketing.

Oh, snap!

Just in case you don't know, the New York Times is rather a larger operation. And us hometown hicks ain't got no sophistication.

[808golfer]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

There are no pop-up ads on the printed version. There's always that alternative.

I wish a pop up ad would come down and cover up the BREAKING NEWS story that's been up now for 24 hours that the WAHINE BB team has won a game....this is to me more annoying that no one is paying attention....