Weakly flogging

[pzarquon]

Re: Weakly flogging

Lorider is a troll because of one poorly presented semi-satirical post? One that Lorider has explained not once or twice but three times now? Gets called "Lolorider" and "fool" by the regulars for simply having a better-than-poor estimation of the Weekly? This train wreck disappoints me, but not for the reasons you might expect.

Is it possible that community policing leads to a better neighborhood than a heavy blue presence?

I suppose, and I know where you're coming from, having survived the flame wars of FIDOnet and USENET and more than a few web boards. A mature, diverse, well functioning community can certainly manage itself as a group better than one or two people. The question is whether HawaiiThreads (or this particular corner of it) has reached that point, and from the looks of things, I don't think we're there yet.

Here in "Hawaii Media" (the Hawaii Radio & TV Guide Forums), we're all guests in Mel's house. What he says goes. As has been mentioned before, nothing stops anyone from looking elsewhere. But the mix of folks here is entertaining, to say the least. Perhaps especially when things go off the rails? Who knows.

I'm glad you're here, Lorider.

[mel]

Re: Weakly flogging

OK, let's refocus now on the title of this topic "Weakly flogging". Point out whatever flaws you find in our venerable weekly publication and not flaws in each other. For those, please take them to email or private messaging.

Perhaps a new topic should be started in "I used to work for the Weekly" or whatever (insert your publication employer)....

Another Honolulu Weekly is to hit the newsstand tomorrow, so let's refocus on that particular issue for this topic.

Thank you.

[zztype]

Re: Weakly flogging

Never mind, Mel. My apologies all. I will no longer post here.
Please feel free to delete my posts previous. Seems I have nothing constructive to add to this discussion. I'll take my jive show elsewhere.
Blaine

[LikaNui]

Re: Weakly flogging

My apologies all. I will no longer post here.
Please feel free to delete my posts previous. Seems I have nothing constructive to add to this discussion. I'll take my jive show elsewhere.
Blaine

NOoooooooo!!! Not gonna let ya leave that easy, Blaine. We need you here and want you here. You're one of the professionals who make this worthwhile! Please don't let a flamer chase you out...

[kimo55]

Re: Weakly flogging

NOoooooooo!!! Not gonna let ya leave that easy, Blaine. We need you here and want you here. You're one of the professionals who make this worthwhile! Please don't let a flamer chase you out...

yea! we are one big friendly ohana here, or haven't you heard?!
Stay, or I will shoot you.

[LikaNui]

Re: Weakly flogging

Gets called "Lolorider" and "fool" by the regulars for simply having a better-than-poor estimation of the Weekly?

First, Ryan, not all of the "regulars" have jumped on him, just two. Further, LoRider invited the name-calling by calling us names first and more specifically by repeatedly refusing to correctly identify ZZType and instead using ZZRider, even when it was pointed out to him. He came in disrespecting folks from the outset.

A mature, diverse, well functioning community can certainly manage itself as a group better than one or two people. The question is whether HawaiiThreads (or this particular corner of it) has reached that point, and from the looks of things, I don't think we're there yet.

Agreed. And count me among those who really doesn't like thread-drift or flame wars and who hopes we stay on-topic.

But the mix of folks here is entertaining, to say the least. Perhaps especially when things go off the rails? Who knows.
I'm glad you're here, Lorider.

Agreed again. I enjoy seeing differing opinions. I just hope everyone sticks to responding to the message and not attacking the messenger.

[b4ru]

Re: Weakly flogging

What is this thread about anyway?

[kimo55]

Re: Weakly flogging

What is this thread about anyway?

hot dogs, LCD monitors and internet police with no sense of humor. What else!?


(which, I assure you, I am quite chagrined about; that the Hon. Weekly never writes about. yet.)
(which makes them (flogging, here...) the piece o crap, lowlife, worthless, barely able to prove worthy of covering the floor of a parakeet cage, the concept of which, would be admittedly, very insulting. To birds (of all breeds), across the nation.)

[mel]

Re: Weakly flogging

Stay on topic: "Weakly flogging". Thank you.

[LikaNui]

Re: Weakly flogging

Sheesh, nobody had any insight or comments about this?:

Heck, we haven't addressed the issue of advertising yet!
Notice how small the classifieds have become? Less than two years ago the "Mind Body Spirit" classifieds alone took up almost four full pages and now it's down to less than half of just one page! And the entire classified section is less than three pages now, while that one MBS category alone used to be four pages.
Did the Weakly raise ad prices so high that almost all the advertisers bailed out? They used to sell the Back Page ads; now, you buy a classified ad and get a free BP ad, or the BP space is full of the Weakly's own in-house ads to hire new staff or push their ads. Employment classifieds are almost nonexistent except for the AAN CAN ads that are distributed nationally to all weeklies. Only five real Help Wanted ads (not counting the Weakly's own five ads to fill five positions at the paper). And all other classified categories have shrunk dramatically as well. Real Estate? There are two apartments for rent, period. Transportation? There are three cars for sale, period. Etc., etc.

[LikaNui]

Re: Weakly flogging

In scanning through today's issue I realized that I kept seeing the same two bylines over and over and over again.
A staff writer named Sue Kiyabu wrote at least 11 full pages of articles in the Guide To Sustainable Living insert. Yikes. I hope she had a decent lead time to write that much.
And Michelle Takiguchi wrote almost six full pages of the entire publication.
For FREE.
She's an intern.
And the rich get richer, off the efforts of innocents.

[pzarquon]

Re: Weakly flogging

Seems I have nothing constructive to add to this discussion.

I don't see anyone, anywhere proposing such a ridiculous notion. Your posts to this thread (er, up until the all-caps fuzzy haired thing!) were among the most... coherent. I hope you'll reconsider leaving us.

He came in disrespecting folks from the outset.

Okay. I've re-read this thread from the beginning. The only major travesty Lorider seems to have inflicted upon everyone here is defending the Weekly. (LikaNui even said, 'Hey, don't stop defending it! Having multiple points of view is what makes these conversations good... and 'balanced'.") There was the "blowhard" line, later clarified, and the infamous post #43, which seems to have put everyone into a tizzy... but mixed in with other personal bickering between other members, I'd be hard pressed to see anything "flame" like. ("Troll" might be up for debate, but I guess any minority view can be seen as a troll in some contexts.) I mean, if the worst of this thread counts as a "flame" (or as someone put it, "fireworks") then I guess USENET is the goddamn sun.

Disrespectful? I suppose. But, Lorider disclosed an attachment to the Weekly, and naturally he/she is going to take the relentless criticism here personally as well. Like LikaNui, I would've welcomed the counterpoint, if only to have something to knock against. I just think the knocks were disproportionate.

Look. I'm not taking either side. I just lament that a perfectly reasonable conversation about the shortcomings of our fair Weekly was turning personal and unpleasant (mostly due to a sarcastic post that was clearly lacking in emoticons). I used to love the Weekly, I'd love to see it succeed... but I'm also not going to pretend that what it's doing lately is not succeeding, big time. There's a lot to talk about when it comes to the Weekly - why bother with each other?

Sheesh, nobody had any insight or comments about this?

You could say we've been distracted.

Yes, okay, Weekly ads. Yes, it's sad. I've actually paid for that back page, but when I realized my ad was lost among their humongous house ads, I wondered, "What's the point?" (At least one person mentioned seeing my ad in the Downtown Planet.) And every time I saw a good cluster of "real" ads, they turn out to be syndicated AAN ads from the Mainland.

Ads are a neccessary evil, but at the rate they're going, they're not going to be attracting any fresh money any time soon.

As ads become leaner, in fact, I begin to look at straight copy more and more skeptically... is this a story on a Windward farm here because it was noteworthy, or because is it "advertorial" fluff (photo and blurb for free cabbage for a month!)? Others have mentioned curious parallels between editorial focus and advertisers (or at least relationships with staff). Bad territory.

And the rich get richer, off the efforts of innocents.

Interesting. Exploiting unpaid interns is a tradition in the biz, I suppose, but (since I haven't picked up the last several issues) are Sue Kiyabu and Michelle Takiguchi regulars? The former has a piece in Hawaii Remodeling Magazine, and latter I see has bylines in Ka Leo at UH. Given my comment above, I can't help wondering when I see an {x}-page spread on {y} by {z} whether {z} has some vested interest in {y} - and whether the Weekly's desperate enough for copy to give it {x}.

[WeeklyNews]

Re: Weakly flogging

Likanui said:

"And Michelle Takiguchi wrote almost six full pages of the entire publication.
For FREE.
She's an intern.
And the rich get richer, off the efforts of innocents."

To clarify: It's true that the Honolulu Weekly's internships are unpaid, but interns are paid for published articles at the same rate as our freelance writers.

[LikaNui]

Re: Weakly flogging

To clarify: It's true that the Honolulu Weekly's internships are unpaid, but interns are paid for published articles at the same rate as our freelance writers.

Thanks for the clarification. Good to know.
And as you wrote "our" freelance writers, would you be inclined to let us know your connection to the publication in question? It would be great to actually get a real dialog going here. We all want to see the paper succeed! (Or at least most of us do.)

[WeeklyNews]

Re: Weakly flogging

I'm Kawehi Haug, the news editor (as of about 8 months). I understand that there's safety in anonymity, but one introduction warrants another. What's your connection to the Weekly?

One more clarification while we're on the topic of free work: Bob Green does not write for free (Artful Dodger was mistaken).