Digital TV Over The Air

[mike]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

Hey Ongre,

No...that's not too much information. It's always great to get real life info. I will share this with the FCC folks on Maui.

Mahalo,
Mike

[Doctah]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

Oceanic/Time Warner Cable question: Now that the stations are no longer on analog, and there's no longer the inteference issue, can Oceanic/Time Warner FINALLY put the local stations on their properly branded channel numbers? In other words, can KHON FINALLY be on Channel 2, KITV on 4, KGMB on 9, etc? (I never understood why Oceanic could put KFVE on its proper channel 5, but the others were forced onto different positions)...

[salmoned]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

That stuff is already on cable. I am sure the local TV stations would want something that generated revenue and made money for the station. So it would have to be more commercial and popular fare such as perhaps all sports, all news, a mix of both or more. Don't know for sure.

Take a look at what KHON and KITV are offering on their sub-channels...

KHON is lucky enough to have another network fill most of the time plus syndicated programming.

KITV for now seems to be content with Accuweather, but if you ever watch that it is loaded with ads and stuff that crawl or pop up from time to time.

Apparently KHNL had NBC weather on 13-2 but now have nothing. Moving MyNetwork TV to 13-2 may be a good idea. Just keep KFVE as all UH sports and verious syndicated shows and secondary news times.

The religious stations seem to have deep pockets and are filling several sub-channels with more religious programs. A friend of mine has been to the KAAH facility and said the place was quite state of the art.

It will be interesting to see if and what KIKU and KBFD add to their secondary channels if anything at all. Probably more ethnic programs if they can reach enough audience and make money from them.

True, that stuff is already on cable, but so is everything else you mention. If it's profitable on cable, why wouldn't it be profitable on the air? The key is get low cost programming (of moderate interest) and add commercials for profit. If you run high cost programming, the profit may never materialize. Also, I doubt any stations want to risk putting much money into their sub-channel programming.

[Random]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

So is KHON running the CW (2.2) on Standard Definition?

From what I read here, it would be impossible to run two sub-channels or more on High Definition.

Would that explain why KHON is the weakest broadcasting signal transmitting from Maui?

(With the exception of KGMV and KWHM, I only see Honolulu call signs for the other channels/stations.)

[Random]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

QUERY: How did the transition go so far for the analog-minded and digital-challenged (i.e., senior citizens)?

[KGMB9]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

From what I read here, it would be impossible to run two sub-channels or more on High Definition.

Power and bandwidth are two different things.

The bandwidth limitation (sub-channels) forces you to fit within the given space (19.4 Mbits/s). This limitation is set by how we define what a channel is (space between each).

Power is how much juice we put behind the broadcast. Not everyone's transmitters are the same. The more transmitter power, the farther the signal will go and the stronger the signal will be. The FCC regulates this and sets minimums and maximums.

[tvhawaii]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

Okay, we got reps from KITV and KGMB here on HT. Aloha.

Who here represent KHON? Just FYI, Your digital broadcasting signals (both 2.1 FOX and 2.2 CW) from Ulupalakua is by far the weakest. Both keep dropping almost intermittently from my reception on Molokai.

Yes...Mahalo for your presence here.

I (and a few friends in Kula and on Omaopio Rd.) also have low signal strength on FOX, fwiw.

--Michael

[tvhawaii]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

You can have one HD and, I believe depending on compression, one SD. But two HD subchannels would take too much bandwidth.

Caveat: It depends what type of HD you're broadcasting and at what rate... Basically, we have 19.6 Mbits/s to play with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_subchannel has a little table at the bottom.

Another caveat: Different compression formats will allow for more as time goes on... So the future may allow more video data pushed OTA.

This is why HDTV OTA usually looks better than cable and satellite as they compress further than we do. You need to fit all those channels over the pipe...

Due to the latency in the feeds from DirecTV and DISH, it was easy to compare the local FOX/CBS HD feeds of the NFL games last Sunday. The local FOX-HD broadcast was much better. The local CBS-HD feed was also better, but not as pronounced.
Thanks for the pointer to the subchannel table.
I hope, after all these years of waiting for this (potentially) beautiful HD programming, that the broadcasters keep the HD bitrate high and not opt for a bunch of subchannels.

--Michael

[Random]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

You can have one HD and, I believe depending on compression, one SD. But two HD subchannels would take too much bandwidth.

Caveat: It depends what type of HD you're broadcasting and at what rate... Basically, we have 19.6 Mbits/s to play with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_subchannel has a little table at the bottom.

Another caveat: Different compression formats will allow for more as time goes on... So the future may allow more video data pushed OTA.

This is why HDTV OTA usually looks better than cable and satellite as they compress further than we do. You need to fit all those channels over the pipe...

Thanks for the info.

So, how sooner or later will OTA broadcasters transmit the main channel (*.1 or *-1) in 1080p resolution? Is it possible?

[KGMB9]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

I hope, after all these years of waiting for this (potentially) beautiful HD programming, that the broadcasters keep the HD bitrate high and not opt for a bunch of subchannels.

I wouldn't think any of us would. In fact, we're all making investments and preparing for more HD programming rather than less.

How could you step back after gazing upon the beauty? And beautiful it is...

Most likely, you'll see one sub-channel. But as technology moves on, it could be something totally different. One idea is mobile broadcasting on the sub-channel... There's also been talks about data access, like WiFi (but being an IT guy, it doesn't make much sense).

However, to be quite honest, technology is changing so fast it's really hard to tell.

Stay tuned, this will be fun.

[KGMB9]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

So, how sooner or later will OTA broadcasters transmit the main channel (*.1 or *-1) in 1080p resolution? Is it possible?

Possible, yes... How soon? Can't tell. There's a lot of discussion on the flavors of HD. There's a lot of hardware that goes behind that, especially if you talking about what we produce.

And you have to take into account what the networks will be pushing out as their standard.

It's like audio... Can you hear outside of 20Hz - 20KHz audio (CD)? Can you tell 1080p from 720p? What population can tell?

[Doctah]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

Sorry to nudge, but any thoughts on my Oceanic/channel position question? It still bugs me that Oceanic doesn't put stations on their proper channel number. And I assume it bugs KHON, KITV and KGMB (whereas KHNL folded and adopted its Oceanic channel number -- even though it was already on VHF over the air!)

[toddk968]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

This afternoon, I received KOGG on their DTV channel 16 from Molokai Lookout on Oahu and it displayed as 13.1. I also picked up KGMV DTV 24 (9.1) and KWHM (don't recall their DTV channel at the moment).

Is anyone who is picking up Maui's site receiving Ch. 15, KOGG, KHNL's relay?

Here in Haiku, we receive all the desired stations except KOGG, the KHNL Maui transmitter on ch 15. The site is actually on the other side of "giggle hill" from my home and probably just below the rise. So we have what could safely be called a fringe signal.
There is some pixalization and some choppy audio, which has occurred on every channel at one time or another, but the digital signal is what they said it would be.
My question is about the ch.15 KOGG signal I get nothing in that spot and wonder if anyone else receiving the new Ulupalakua site is picking up a KHNL station.

[toddk968]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

How is the digital signal in Honolulu? I live in Kalihi but I'm in an apartment and my bedroom is in the back of the building and blocked by another building.

I have an MPEG-2 decoder for my computer and I got cable hooked up to it. But, I wonder if I should buy a digital converter to get HD over the air? I don't want to get it if I can't get a decent signal.

The digital television signals vary throughout Honolulu. One of the best locations I was able to find to catch the most DTV signals is Magic Island/Ala Moana Park area. KGMB, KITV and KHON are pretty easy to receive in the Ala Moana to Kaimuki areas. KWHE and KBFD are easy in the downtown areas (as long as you have a clear view of their antennas atop 1188 Bishop St) and KHNL, KFVE and KHET are easy to receive in the Aiea/Pearl City areas. I see KGMB applied to move their transmitter to the KFVE site, so their reception will improve in Aiea/Pearl City and likely get worse for townies.

The www.antennaweb.org site is a pretty decent resource to let you know what DTV signals you should expect to receive in your area. In my home area, it shows I should receive only two DTV signals, but I receive 3-4 depending on conditions (like where cars are parked on the street, etc.). Good luck!

[mel]

Re: Digital TV Over The Air

Sorry to nudge, but any thoughts on my Oceanic/channel position question? It still bugs me that Oceanic doesn't put stations on their proper channel number. And I assume it bugs KHON, KITV and KGMB (whereas KHNL folded and adopted its Oceanic channel number -- even though it was already on VHF over the air!)

Like KHNL, KHON bent for their digital signal broadcast on 2.2. It's CW93 on cable, which corresponds to the cable location on the digital box instead of 2.2 over the air. KHON 2.2 programs the CW Network.