I want HDTV

[alohatim]

Re: I want HDTV

Pzarq,

Very bad timing indeed! Our cable's neighborhood node went out this morning during the pregame "babble". I thought for sure we'd have to move the party. But they got it back up about an hour before game time.

I have often wondered about metro folks who get HD OTA. It would be great to live in a world where that is possible. I hope somebody who does get it chimes in. We don't get any air TV signals at all here on Kauai. I wonder if that will ever change. I wonder why we are locked into cable or satelite dish only.

I think I have as basic an HD package as you can get (except that I have 2 receivers--one of them a DVR). It still costs me over $100 month.

I asked the cable guy about TVs with cable cards. He simply said, "We don't do them--You need a cable box".

I have both digital and analog sets running in my house. The only difference is the cable box in between the wall and the set. Because there is two way traffic in and out of the cable boxes, you have to be careful about splitters. The wrong type of splitter may cause the backward signal to be lost or minimized. I have a duplex splitter that sends one signal for TV and one signal for cable modem. The TV signal is then amplified and split four ways (for both the analog and digital tvs). The cable installer carries amplifiers and splitters in his truck. They didn't seem to be any more expensive than you would buy online or at Radio Shack.

I am excited for you. I have had the cable service for a few months. I am still awed by the picture. Let us know if you figure out and can get the HD OTA

[Konaguy]

Re: I want HDTV

Secondly, I guess I need to step up to digital cable for HDTV from Oceanic? Or no? There's no way to get HDTV via barebones analog cable service, is there? The Sharp does have a tuner, as I mentioned, but I guess that doesn't neccessarily mean any HDTV channels are out there as-is.

Thirdly, if I do step up to digital cable, and pay for one of those boxes (I don't hear much about CableCards), would that kill the analog signal already coming in from Oceanic? That is, if I have cable jacks in the living room, den, and bedroom, but only have a digital cable box for the living room, can the TVs in the other rooms get the basic analog cable signal like they are now?

You need to subscribe to Oceanic's digital cable before you can upgrade to their HDTV service. You will still get analog service to the outlets that don't have the set top box. Also Cable Cards are a bit buggy and are limited.

[pzarquon]

Re: I want HDTV

Well, I've determined that I could get HD OTA with this set, but I can't where I live. I tuned to 11.1 (a decimal point... how fascinating) and my TV told me, "DIGITAL SIGNAL IS WEAK." So, it knows there's something there, but I can't get to it. What are the other OTA channel numbers for local broadcasters?

Well... I suppose I could throw up a big external antenna, but at this point, it looks like investing in digital cable and the HD add on is the way to go if I want to get the most out of the TV (apart from upsampled DVDs).

Do I need the $6.95 "HD Entertainment Pak (HDE)" to get any HD -- KITV, KHON, KHNL in HD? Or would I get those with the normal digital cable package (and the "HDE" gets me the extras like ESPN, TNT, etc.)?

Thanks, Konaguy, for assuring me that my other TVs should still get analog cable. Alohatim, I'm hopeful we'll be okay on splitters -- we had digital cable before, and Oceanic installed a powered booster of some kind at the "main" wall jack which apparently sent cable to the digital cable box as well as to the far reaches of the house.

[Ninja]

Re: I want HDTV

pzarquon,

It depends where in Mililani you live. Unless you live in Mililani Mauka or Waikalani Gulch you should get most of the DTV stations.
KHNL, KFVE, KIKU and KHET all transmit from Palehua Ridge(above Makakilo).
KHON, KITV, KGMB, KBFD and KWHE transmit from town.
KPXO transmits from Wiliwilinui Ridge above Aina Haina.
With the exception of KHON all the DTV stations are on the UHF band. So if you do go that route, get the best UHF antenna you can get.

Yes the .1 thing is cute, and several stations multicast, so also .2 etc.

Channel List with (virtual channel)and true channel:
KHON-HD(2.1)8 Fox
KHON-SD(2.2)8 CW
KITV-HD(4.1)40 ABC
KFVE-DT(5.1)23 My NetworkTV
KGMB-DT(9.1)22 CBS
KHET-HD(11.1)18 PBS
KHET-SD(11.2)18 Create TV
KHNL-HD(13.1/35.4)35 NBC
KHNL-SD(13.2/35.5)35 Weather Plus
KWHE-DT(14.1)31 Ind.
KIKU-DT(20.1)19 Japanese/Asian
KBFD-DT(32.1)33 Korean
KPXO-DT(66.1)41 "i" Network(Delayed)
qubo (66.2)41 Children's TV
"i" East(66.3)41 "i" Network (Live)
Worship(66.4)41 Religion

Have fun with the new toy!

[pzarquon]

Re: I want HDTV

Wow, Ninja, that's great. Thanks for the list! Which is the strongest signal, would you say, for OTA testing? I only tried 11.1, but was told it was too weak. We live in "original recipe" Mililani, near the high school.

By the way... what's the difference between the "virtual channel" and "true channel"?

Here's a question -- the TV expects the "antenna" to also be the standard coaxial cable input. How do I rig up a proper antenna and still also get a cable signal through that same jack? Could I just have a splitter and a wire taped up the wall to the ceiling, or are you talking full-on roof installation stuff here?

Do you do OTA HDTV? If so, do you still bother with digital cable service?

Right now, we have an analog Series 2 TiVo. It's currently one of three inputs going into the HDTV set (the others being the DVD player and the analog cable signal itself). I figure I'll get a digital cable box that'll go straight to the TV (not the TiVo), so we can either watch digital cable and HDTV live, or SD off the TiVo, until such time as an HDTiVo becomes affordable ($799 for the Series 3 is not "affordable"!). But as it stands, we watch almost no "live" TV, so I'm worried that digital cable might not be the best investment -- if OTA can be made viable.

[Ninja]

Re: I want HDTV

pzarquon,

You look to be in a good area, but try entering your address at www.antennaweb.org and see what come up. KIKU is the strongest signal from Palehua, KITV the strongest from town.

"Virtual Channel" is the remap that the DTV station uses to match up with the analog station. "True channel" is the actual channel the DTV station is broadcasting on. Example KHON is analog channel 2, it's DTV channel is 8 but the TV display that it's 2.1. It's handy to know what the true channel is if a scan doesn't reveal the station in order to try to find it.

One other thing I didn't mention, do you know if the Sharp has a digital QAM tuner? If so, you can also try scanning for unencrypted channels on Oceanic which include KHON-HD, KITV-HD and KHNL-HD. Other channels unencrypted are here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9403067

If not and go the OTA route you could use a A/B switch to go from OTA to Oceanic.

I don't have Oceanic, I have Dish Network. Their receivers include OTA tuners, so Yes I watch the local stations via OTA.

[pzarquon]

Re: I want HDTV

Ninja, you are my guru! Thanks for being so helpful to this newbie.

I'm pretty sure our TV has QAM. At least, the acronym looks familiar. What does that mean? Is Oceanic sending some HD signals over the analog signal? Or is that wishful thinking?

Get this. Oceanic just told me they can't do digital cable at our townhome in Mililani. Which is ridiculous, because we had digital cable service there years ago... but something or other has us marked as 'unavailable' now. So! If it isn't OTA, I fear, there's no HD for us!

Even worse, I bet we'll have some challenges when it comes to setting up an external antenna. Grr. Is there anything that can just sit in the living room that could nonetheless get a signal?

[scrivener]

Re: I want HDTV

I wonder if some cheap, stop-gap, old-school television might not have been a better solution for you right now. Are you stuck with the TV?

[pzarquon]

Re: I want HDTV

I was thinking that in the store, actually. Hell, we could've gotten a huge, SD tube TV for $300. But as I nearly broke my back taking the old one out of our cabinet, and since I have nightmares of a tube TV smooshing my kids (darn those alarmist news magazine shows!), I wasn't too hot on that idea.

So I was looking at a $800 26" Sony HDTV LCD that would've fit in the same spot as the old TV (and it looked about the best of any display in the store)... But then I saw this 32" HDTV LCD, new but on clearance (I guess there's a newer, nicer one out now), for basically the same price. In fact, there were even larger ones for a couple hundred more, but those would've looked ridiculousin our cozy living room (and the picture was muddy). So the 32" Sharp Aquos seemed a reasonable middle-spot. Or, at least, that's how I rationalized the whole thing.

Setting the thing up was a breeze... whereas I'm still not sure how I'm going to get rid of the old tube. And our kids immediately seized upon and destroyed the box. So I think it's ours for good.

Now, we watch a lot of DVDs, and having tested the "LOST" pilot on this thing, it's beautiful. So just for that I think I'd be happy. Even 'zooming' those fake widescreened TV shows like "The Closer" or Nigella Lawson look decent filling in that real estate.

But I want to see HD, yes. So any advice on an indoor antenna, a satellite provider, or a way to beat Oceanic into submission (ha!) would be appreciated.

[Konaguy]

Re: I want HDTV

I would escalate it with Oceanic. It is my experience the front line CSR's are really clueless. Thus I would try to bump it up to supervisor.

[scrivener]

Re: I want HDTV

Nigella Lawson looked decent filling in that real estate.

Darn. Now I want one, too.

[pzarquon]

Re: I want HDTV

I'm losing patience for Oceanic pretty quickly. Does anyone have experience with DishTV or Dish Network and its HD offerings?

Meanwhile, Ninja, I do have a QAM tuner, and thanks to that message board post you linked, I could find the QAM stations on the analog wire. Well, I could find where they should be. But I'm getting lots of "too weak" errors from the Sharp Aquos.

For example, I can get KHNL-DT (106.1), but not KHNL-HD (83.3). Is this common? Any chance the latter is only active when there's an HD broadcast? Also, KITV-HD (114.2) is apparently scrambled. Also... why do the DT stations look worse than the SD channels?

Someone on that board wrote:

You should be able to tune KITV (ABC), KHNL (NBC), and KHON(FOX) in HD with basic cable and your HDTV's QAM tuner. I say should because some QAM tuners aren't as good as others.

They also talk a lot about antennas for OTA signals... but the kind of things they're talking about building (save for Radio Shack deals in the attic) probably won't fly in Mililani!

[DXer]

Re: I want HDTV

I would also go past the CSR's at Oceanic, as well. Get a supervisor. However, it is not completely untrue that Oceanic can't deliver digital cable to certain areas, which means your QAM tuner would be useless. But those areas, I thought, were limited to the industrial areas around the island.

Anyone else notice how clear CW93 looks, versus any of the other SD channels (85, 87 & 88)?

DXer

[Ninja]

Re: I want HDTV

pzarquon,

You might want to take up Konaguy's suggestion that you call a Supervisor. It sounds as if the cable distribution in your complex is outdated. They may tell you that your HOA or Co-op needs to authorize them to upgrade the system.

QAM is the modulation scheme that cable uses for Digital Cable. Oceanic(and many other cable companies) don't encrypt all the channels...referred to as "in-the-clear"...which allows these channels to be received without a Digital Cable box.
You can learn more about Digital QAM:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAM_tuner or more than you'd ever want to know about QAM:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrat...ude_modulation

Dish Network does offer a HD package in Hawaii. It requires the use of 2 dishes, a 24" and a 30". Dish offers a standard HD receiver(Vip211) and a dual tuner DVR(Vip622). The HD Pack cost $9.99 per month and the channels are:
ESPN-HD
ESPN2-HD
TNT-HD
DiscoveryHD Theater
Universal HD
HD Net
HD Net Movies
NFL NetworkHD

Plus you also receive the HD version of HBO and Showtime included in their respective packages.

Dish does offer the Honolulu local stations but they are SD, not HD. But Dish does offer built-in OTA tuners for receiving local HD broadcast.

If you want to try out a indoor antenna for OTA reception, Circuit City sells the Terk HDTVi antenna(About $30). It's a directional type UHF antenna that works fairly well and includes "rabbit ears" for VHF reception. If it doesn't work out CC has a fairly good return policy.

Keep at it and good luck!

Charles

[Random]

Re: I want HDTV

Knowing the deadline is just two years away, do you think all our TV stations have enough time to get the equipment needed to broadcast OTA digital signal to cover all islands? I know terrain is a big problem but that can be overcome, right?