How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

[Miulang]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

small kid time, we would do these field trips to da Bishop museum. learn about the history. influx of missionaries. destruction of the Hawaiian religion, culture, how Hula and speaking Hawaiian language was kapu.
That bothered me even at 9 years of age. Learned in intermediate and high school, how all the development is changing Honolulu, the impact on all levels.

Den you were one special kid back small kid time. Us kids on Maui never had dakine education. But betta late den neva, yeah?

Miulang

[dee_diddy]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

that kinda apathy is one of the many problems and helps the cause of overdevelopment and the destruction of our islands.
"aaah well. can't stop progress. It's gonna happen anyway especially after my small speck o' life is over. so why bother with anything except expressing this fatalistic perspective".

Whoa. I didn't sign up here to get my views shredded to pieces. I figured I'd share the perspective of a person my age. I'm pretty intelligent, and I know how certain things work. I know that the United States has a rapidly growing population. Whether it be births outweiighing deaths, or immigrants settling in our country. Did you know the United States has a net gain of 1 person per every 11 seconds? With growing rates like that, we have to build. There's really no way to control the population in a democratic society. And to be quite honest, I don't blame people for choosing Hawaii to live than anywhere else in the US. It's beautiful. It's a lot more expensive, yes, but I would much rather pay more to live here than live some place like downtown Los Angeles where people are popping people on the streets, police sirens sound all day, the pollution is over the top, etc.... I do think about how future generations are going to have to live, and I know there's a possibility Hawaii might turn into a mini L.A., but I generally think humans are smart, and they'll find a way to overcome these obstacles, just as we're trying to over come ours.

By the way, the fact about the Earth only having about 5 billion years of life left is true. I learned it in my Astronomy class.

[helen]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

Not to change the subject but that 5 billion years worth of lifetime is for the Sun not the Earth. The Earth could go sooner due to other things like collisions between it and comets, asteroids or other planets that come our way, or the Sun could go off sooner than the estimated 5 billion year lifetime.

[kimo55]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

>Whoa. I didn't sign up here to get my views shredded to pieces.

your views remain intact where they are.

>I know there's a possibility Hawaii might turn into a mini L.A.,

this is one view I am against sharing any apathy toward. or "shredded to pieces" as you have it.

>but I generally think humans are smart, and they'll find a way to
>overcome these obstacles, just as we're trying to over come ours.

they will find a way to satisfy their insatiable greed and prove they have dominion over the earth. They are "smart" in that way. They are "dumb" when it comes to having any foresight as to what kind of earth they will be leaving their grandchildren. They are not at all "smart" in being objective toward their shortcomings, rather, they think all will turn out ok, (cuz they be smart and) cuz ya cain't do nuttin bouddit anyway.

>By the way, the fact about the Earth only having about 5 billion years of
>life left is true. I learned it in my Astronomy class.

that's a very nice fact and we do appreciate your sharing it.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

But at that point, I wasn't living in Hawai'i, so what could I do?

Umm... move back?

[dee_diddy]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

Not to change the subject but that 5 billion years worth of lifetime is for the Sun not the Earth. The Earth could go sooner due to other things like collisions between it and comets, asteroids or other planets that come our way, or the Sun could go off sooner than the estimated 5 billion year lifetime.

Yep. I totally screwed up on that. The Sun has a REAMINING lifespan of an estimated 5 billion years. It's already about 5 billion year old. Eventually it'll turn into a blue giant and yada yada yada. I doubt anything will ever hit the Earth though (comets, asteroids, meteors, and especially other planets). We can see so far out, it's amazing. Wasn't there a thing on the news about a week ago where they sent something to impact a foreign object that was on course to hit the moon? We'll follow that technique until the sun swallows the planets, and ultimately implodes.

[dee_diddy]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

this is one view I am against sharing any apathy toward. or "shredded to pieces" as you have it.

they will find a way to satisfy their insatiable greed and prove they have dominion over the earth. They are "smart" in that way. They are "dumb" when it comes to having any foresight as to what kind of earth they will be leaving their grandchildren. They are not at all "smart" in being objective toward their shortcomings, rather, they think all will turn out ok, (cuz they be smart and) cuz ya cain't do nuttin bouddit anyway.

that's a very nice fact and we do appreciate your sharing it.

Honestly, since you seem so into this subject, say you were given the power to control every aspect of today's society, except limiting population like they do in China, what would you do? of course being totally non-apathetic.

[Miulang]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

Umm... move back?

Planning to move back in 5 years...if there's anything left to move back to!

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

Honestly, since you seem so into this subject, say you were given the power to control every aspect of today's society, except limiting population like they do in China, what would you do? of course being totally non-apathetic.

Darin, there's no need to hypothesize about this...it is already happening in this country under the current Administration. Do not delude yourself into thinking this is a "free" country anymore. With the Patriot Act and other such subversive intrusions into our personal freedoms and the lack of candor on the part of the White House, we are very very close to becoming a fascist state. If you want a future for yourself (and you certainly have many more years of living to do), think about how you can change what's going on in Kahului now. For instance, were you part of that 600-800 person demonstration last week along Hina Ave. to make the public aware of the lolo guy who's been attacking women around Hale Mahaolu? Do you have elderly grandmas and grandpas who could be vulnerable like those 2 ladies were? Making changes in your own community is a good way to start on the road to being "un-apathetic" as you put it. Every little good thing that happens translates into being a good thing for the whole world in general, because we are all so closely tied together these days.

Miulang

P.S. If in the new Supreme Court, the Roe v. Wade decision (about the woman's right to choose to have an abortion) is struck down, there goes the right of reproductive choice for American women. If the White House is able to sneak in a pro-life leaning Justice, that really WILL be the beginning of the end of American freedom.

[kimo55]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

Do not delude yourself into thinking this is a "free" country anymore.

exactly. as Bill Maher says;
This aint a free country. It's just somewhat free-er than most.

[meanoharm]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

So would the local Hawaiians say that they feel the "Aloha Spirit" has been takin advantage of by foriegners?

[Miulang]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

I dunno about the Hawaiians, but the locals would probably say "whatevas". We were all just raised to be courteous to others, but the Mainland guys who are not brought up that way (they're often questioning the motives for people being "nice" to them), probably make too many assumptions about the "goodness" of the locals. And as with any culture "different" from the prevailing one, all it takes is one pilau act from an outsider to cause the locals to resent all of them. Sad, but true. I learned a long time ago that when I travel someplace I've never been before, the LAST thing I wanna do is make myself conspicuous. But a lot of visitors and Mainland people who visit or move to the 'aina think their way is always better and they want the locals to know it, and that's when they get in big pilikia.

One other way of thinking about it is this: had it not been for the "spirit of Aloha" accorded to the white folk way back in the 1800s, Hawai'i might still be a sovereign nation. There might even be more kanaka maoli around if the white man's diseases had not decimated the population.

Miulang

[DaveNSoKona]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

There might even be more kanaka maoli around if the white man's diseases had not decimated the population.
Miulang

That's a BIG if. What a fairytale. Hawaii somehow, miraculously, avoiding the fate of all indigenous cultures throughout the expansion of the western powers from the 17th-19th century and the Japanese in the 20th century.

The diseases suffered by indigenous cultures was an evolutionary readjustment to correct a condition brought on by isolation, not a curse inflicted by the white man. White civilizations suffered the same fate in the Middle Ages with diseases.

The real crime was the cultural genocide perpetrated by well meaning Christians (insert missionaries). Although even they did some good for Hawaiians left in the lurch by the abolition of the kapu system.

I'm not happy it happened but I think it was unavoidable. To suggest that any Hawaiian Monarch could have avoided annexation is a little harsh on the Ali'i that had to contend with it in those days. It is a wonder no more bloodshed took place than it did.

Unfortunately, if the US hadn't annexed it, Hawaii was too strategically located to remain independent all the way through into the 21st century.

Get real.

[meanoharm]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

DaveNSoKona I appreciate your input.

Do you (readers) feel that the negative feelings towards mainlanders, caucasions and other tourists is because of the over crowdings of the islands, or because of the past history of how caucasions forcefully took over the Hawaiian monarchy?

Do you feel that the Hawaiian monarchy would have prospered if it were left alone?

[Miulang]

Re: How do locals feel about visitors or people moving from the mainland?

That's a BIG if. What a fairytale. Hawaii somehow, miraculously, avoiding the fate of all indigenous cultures throughout the expansion of the western powers from the 17th-19th century and the Japanese in the 20th century.

The diseases suffered by indigenous cultures was an evolutionary readjustment to correct a condition brought on by isolation, not a curse inflicted by the white man. White civilizations suffered the same fate in the Middle Ages with diseases.

The real crime was the cultural genocide perpetrated by well meaning Christians (insert missionaries). Although even they did some good for Hawaiians left in the lurch by the abolition of the kapu system.

I'm not happy it happened but I think it was unavoidable. To suggest that any Hawaiian Monarch could have avoided annexation is a little harsh on the Ali'i that had to contend with it in those days. It is a wonder no more bloodshed took place than it did.

Unfortunately, if the US hadn't annexed it, Hawaii was too strategically located to remain independent all the way through into the 21st century.

Get real.

If the kanaka maoli hadn't been so trusting, they might have held on to their sovereignty for a longer period of time than they did. Yes, it would have been inevitable, and we might be speaking Japanese or Russian instead of English, Dave, but you see the same kinds of things happening even today in Brazil, where the indigenous people, who were isolated for thousands of years, are now being forced to come into contact with white people because of development in the jungle. Sociologists believe that the influence of western civilizations has hurt more than helped indigenous people. Once the genie is out of the bottle, s/he can't be stuffed back in.

As such, I doubt the Akaka Bill is going to do diddly for the kanaka maoli because not all of them are united as one voice. Nothing good will happen for the kanaka maoli until and unless they all embrace the same goals and work towards them together. The Native American tribes have started learning this. So now they "use" the white man's systems to their advantage, which is OK by me. If building casinos or selling mineral or water rights is the only way they can ensure the economic viability of their nations, then I say that's great. That's better than having them live on welfare.

Miulang

P.S. I don't think syphillis is something I would want to let loose in a homogeneous population just to "make the gene pool stronger". In a modern context, why does the Ag Dept have quarantine rules? To keep foreign invaders from decimating the population of endemic, unique to the islands plants and animals. Every day, at least a few of the unique species of flora and fauna in the 'aina are one step closer to extinction because of people and the introduction of alien species.