How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

[islandguy]

This is a question I have been pondering for the last few weeks...

How much $$ do you REALLY need to make to live in hawaii? My wife, son, and I lived there for 5 years recently, and we only made about $2500 a month, and we had plenty of money.

Keep in mind that we do not use credit cards, pay CASH for everything, and hold to a budget. We had a good time there, and I dont see why people claim it costs a fortune to live there... I wonder where they were living or what their "standard" of living was (what they chose to spend their money on, vs what they really needed).

Comments welcome...

[tutusue]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

Was your $2500./mo. gross or net?

This is an interesting topic because I, too, don't need much more that. However, I don't have a mortgage, a spouse or a child living at home.

Please tell us how you did it.

[kthor]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

was looking at Hawaii real estate at oahua island and was amazed that prices are comparable 2 California homes. Ewa beach, Central oahua and leeward coast have homes under $500k . I didnt know that.

Think my dreams of living in Hawaii might come true sooner than I expected.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

First let me congratulate you on being able to live here with no major financial issues because that is not an easy task to do.

However (ahh you knew that was coming ), it is expensive to live here especially with a family.

If you rent have a small family in town then it's actually doable to live decently.

Rent is generally smaller (albeit lately not by a large margin) than mortgage payments. Renters don't have to pay for property taxes, home owners insurance, or all utility costs.

We all of course know the benefits of owning a home. However month to month expenditure wise, renting will save you a few bucks on your monthly budget.

With one child living costs are lower as well. I have six boys so I know it costs a lot to feed six bottomless pits.

With no credit cards you pay no additional monthly payments. Is that good? Heck yeah but I've been in retail for three years now and generally when a customer pays only in cash, it typically means they didn't have a high enough credit score to get a credit card or for that matter qualify for a home mortgage, so in the long run they rent and pay no credit card fees every month.

Good for a monthly budget, bad if you budget annually where the tax benefits of home ownership typically eclipse any annual savings over renting.

For those who have poor credit ratings, and fit into this profile, that means qualifying for government subsidies. WIC provides an excellent way for low-income earners with young children (babies and toddlers) to get a couple gallons of milk and quarts of juice plus cheese and other products for free!

For all of those who fit into any of these profiles and there are quite a few more freebies out there to reduce the cost of living here in paradise. Then there are those that are in the GAP Group. Earning too much for subsidies, earning too little to live comfortably.

These are the people that suffer from the high costs of living here in Hawaii.

They do not qualify for Section 8 housing so they pay the full amount for rentals. They do not qualify for a home mortgage because their monthly debt is too high.

With no subsidy support to offset essential purchases (food, medical, insurance, housing, etc) and no mortgage to shelter their income, life can be a bit stressful when it comes to making ends meet.

This happens everywhere in the US but here in Hawaii it is definately an issue as we cannot simply cross the state lines to Nevada and buy our groceries tax free.

It doesn't help that our electrical costs are the highest in the nation either.

Okay so the headlines read Hawaii has the most millionaires per capita. Per Capita doesn't have to mean cash assets.

President Clinton at one time wanted to redefine who is "rich". I can't remember the exact dollar figure but because of the cost of homes here in Hawaii, his definition would have made virtually all Hawaii home owners as rich and would have been taxed at a higher rate (it's the Democratic way...tax the rich). That suggestion died in flames on the floor of Congress.

None the less it seems you have to own a home to be considered "well off". Unfortunately Hawaii has a higer than normal amount of renters here and that's a problem.

If you can get by with $2500 a month, pay your rent, utilities, gas, food, insurance and still have money in the bank, then that is remarkably good. I'd stay the course or not wipe my feet because you definately stepped in some major dog poop because it is not the norm by a long shot.

To live comfortably with a short driving distance on Oahu typically requires a rent of close to $2,000 per month for a family of four. Maybe $1600 but finding that is harder as they are scooped up rather quickly.

Live out of town and you daily commute becomes expensive due to fuel costs. When I visited Honolulu a couple of weeks ago to help fix my sister in law's condo in Mililani I drove my wife every morning on the zipper lane to get to downtown Honolulu. I was shocked as I peered at the H2 and the Nimitz overpass in the regular lanes to see a mass of cars with their lone occupant in EVERY CAR stuck in that mess.

So you live in town and pay a higher rent to offset lower fuel and automobile maintenance costs. Makes sense. I live 22-miles out of Hilo and make the commute three times a day. I spend over $500 per month on gas because of it. That's $500 that could have gone into a higher priced home in Hilo.

Same as Honolulu pay more to live closer, pay less to commute as a result.

But with high rent/mortgage, gas, electricity, food and taxes, a typical family of four CANNOT make it on $2500 per month and have a decent savings account IF they are GAP Group wage earners. The only ones that can live with any less stress are those on some subsidy support, the frggin rich or those with less than the standard family size.

And when I say subsidy support, that includes parents that watch their adult children's kids instead of paying over $760 per month in child care costs like most of us do.

$2500 per month? Break it down for me and let's use it as a template for the rest of us because if it's true you're onto something. I'm a bit skeptical here. Remember it has to be "Comfortable living" I could make my family survive on $2500 per month but we'll be missing a few meals and will be eating those in the dark occassionally. Oh and definately dial up service

[tutusue]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

was looking at Hawaii real estate at oahua island and was amazed that prices are comparable 2 California homes. Ewa beach, Central oahua and leeward coast have homes under $500k . I didnt know that.

Think my dreams of living in Hawaii might come true sooner than I expected.

Hawaii's cost of living is very comparable to SoCal in general and Orange County in particular. I'll narrow that down to Laguna Beach 'cuz that's my home town and I'm familiar with the costs. It costs me less to live in Hawaii than it did to live in Laguna.

Keep in mind, tho', that the Oahu areas you mention above equal long commute times if you work in town during normal business hours. Traffic has become horrendous. I live in Makaha (leeward coast...probably the least expensive real estate area on Oahu) and work in town. I live that far away because living oceanfront was affordable when I bought my condo during the mid 1980s. It's still affordable by Hawaii standards but a heckuva lot more expensive now. In mainland terminology it's considered "the wrong side of the tracks"! However, I never have to commute during peak traffic. Much of the time I can work from home and much of the time I can sleep in my office which is completely set up for over-nighters. I refuse to drive in bumper to bumper traffic or when overly tired. Fortunately, I have that flexibility.

[tutusue]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

[...]With no credit cards you pay no additional monthly payments. Is that good? Heck yeah but I've been in retail for three years now and generally when a customer pays only in cash, it typically means they didn't have a high enough credit score to get a credit card or for that matter qualify for a home mortgage, so in the long run they rent and pay no credit card fees every month.
[...]
For those who have poor credit ratings, and fit into this profile, that means qualifying for government subsidies. WIC provides an excellent way for low-income earners with young children (babies and toddlers) to get a couple gallons of milk and quarts of juice plus cheese and other products for free![...]

Personally I don't think it makes any difference if one is financially fit or financially fractured. If this small family pays cash instead of using credit cards (regardless of the reason why) and manages to live comfortably, by their standards, on $2500/mo. in Hawaii...good on 'em!!! Each of us will have our own standards that affect what income we need. I'd love to hear more about how they did it. Subsidies, government or otherwise, are a whole diff'rent ball o' wax and would greatly alter the reasons behind how this family made do.

[greentara]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

Hawaii's cost of living is very comparable to SoCal in general and Orange County in particular. I'll narrow that down to Laguna Beach 'cuz that's my home town and I'm familiar with the costs. It costs me less to live in Hawaii than it did to live in Laguna.

Keep in mind, tho', that the Oahu areas you mention above equal long commute times if you work in town during normal business hours. Traffic has become horrendous. I live in Makaha (leeward coast...probably the least expensive real estate area on Oahu) and work in town. I live that far away because living oceanfront was affordable when I bought my condo during the mid 1980s. It's still affordable by Hawaii standards but a heckuva lot more expensive now. In mainland terminology it's considered "the wrong side of the tracks"! However, I never have to commute during peak traffic. Much of the time I can work from home and much of the time I can sleep in my office which is completely set up for over-nighters. I refuse to drive in bumper to bumper traffic or when overly tired. Fortunately, I have that flexibility.

My cost of living will be much less when I move to Kaua'i. Nothing is more expensive than San Francisco ~ even the gas is about the same. My rent will be much less, smaller place but that's perfectly ok with me. I'm sure I can find a job that pays comparable in the hotel/tourist business, which is very similar to the job I have now - (event manager in large convention center). However, I don't have children and would think that would make a big difference, if one had to pay school fees. I am constantly hearing the mantra, "oh I would love to live there but it's so expensive", not true for me.

PS ~ I love Laguna, favorite place in So Cal

[tutusue]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

[...]PS ~ I love Laguna, favorite place in So Cal [...]

I Love SF (and Sausalito, Tiburon and Mill Valley), favorite place in No Cal!!! And, yes...both comparable to Hawaii when it comes to cost of living.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

Sausalito is a nice place. Last time I went there I was impressed.

Kauai on the other hand...hmmm is the rent there cheap? considering the price for homes were higher than on Oahu.

What kind of job opportunities abound on Kauai? I had to travel to Kauai every year for the Gas Company and quite frankly there's not a whole lot going on over there plus general growth seemed to be spreading in two opposite directions.

I'm serious about those I encounter at Home Depot telling me about credit cards. When I finally convince them that if they want to build their dream house we can outfit it with all of their appliances at once with no interest or payments for one year. If you like you can pay it off slowly over the year without accruing interest. Same as cash. It makes sense. That way you can have your washer/dryer, microwave oven, stove sink refrigerator Plasma tv all at one time with a year to pay it down with no interest.

It's a no brainer and I eventually convince that customer to apply for the Home Depot consumer credit card to take advantage of this offer. As long as you pay it off in 12-months you don't pay any more than if you bought everything paycheck by paycheck for that same time period. The difference is that you get to use everything instead of wishing for it.

Then the credit check comes in and whoops not approved. To get denied for a credit card such as Home Depot means their rating was so bad they couldn't get a car loan from a loan shark practically. It happens.

So anyway let's see how can a family of four make it on $2500 per month?

Let's break it down...

[islandguy]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

Rent $900 to live on base, ACTUAL AMOUNT DEDUCTED FROM OUR MILTARY PAY, not some imaginary amount of $$$ that is not real money, a real $12k a year ADDED to pay, and is taxable income...

Food $300 a month

Car, ZERO, we owned it (honda civic)

Insurance $349 every 6 months for full coverage

Cable internet $44 a month

Electric ZERO Water ZERO (remember, we are paying $900 a month RENT!)

Heath Insurance ZERO

$1244 every month in BILLS

Now, deduct what we MADE...

$2200 a month pay AFTER taxes,
divided by the number of hours each of us worked in army (60 hours a week)
so thats 60 hours a week for a total of 240 hours a month divided
by the take home pay of $2200 thats approx $9.17 a hour.

$956 a month left in spending $$$$.

As far as the credit question goes, we have excellent credit, because when we did use credit, we payed everything on time, and have no deliquencies....

And as far as savings, we have almost 100k CASH in the bank....

Who says you cannot SAVE $$$ being in the military, is the same person who is BROKE 1 week after payday!

[islandguy]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

was looking at Hawaii real estate at oahua island and was amazed that prices are comparable 2 California homes. Ewa beach, Central oahua and leeward coast have homes under $500k . I didnt know that.

Think my dreams of living in Hawaii might come true sooner than I expected.

I am wondering if people are living a lifestyle that EXCEEDS their income...
you know...gotta have a NEW CAR, gotta have NEW DESIGNER CLOTHES, gotta EAT OUT 3x a week, gotta have the BLING BLING... you know... those kinda questions...

[greentara]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

Craig:
Sausalito is a nice place. Last time I went there I was impressed.

Kauai on the other hand...hmmm is the rent there cheap? considering the price for homes were higher than on Oahu.

What kind of job opportunities abound on Kauai? I had to travel to Kauai every year for the Gas Company and quite frankly there's not a whole lot going on over there plus general growth seemed to be spreading in two opposite directions.

You are right Craig the price of homes on Kaua'i are higher than San Francisco. My situation is probably a little different. I have friends on Kaua'i that have rental property and I'm getting a deal that most people would not get. Also, I am in the hospitality business and already have a couple of job prospects in the hotel industry ~ not worried about finding a job, all I'm considering is how much do I want to work and how much play time do I want to enjoy the beauty of the Island. Not looking for night life just looking to lead a clean healthy life and peruse my dance, music, art, diving and spiritual development. I also fly free due to a family member that works for the airlines so if I need a dose of “City” I can always fly back, but I don’t see that happening very often.

PS. I have credit cards with a 0 balance ~ won't get caught in that trap again. But I think everyone needs a credit line of several thousand for emergencies ~ not for bling....

[greentara]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

I'm serious about those I encounter at Home Depot telling me about credit cards. When I finally convince them that if they want to build their dream house we can outfit it with all of their appliances at once with no interest or payments for one year. If you like you can pay it off slowly over the year without accruing interest. Same as cash. It makes sense. That way you can have your washer/dryer, microwave oven, stove sink refrigerator Plasma tv all at one time with a year to pay it down with no interest.

And what happens if they have a balance after a year? Are they charged interest on the entire purchase? A lot can happen in a year...

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

Rent $900 to live on base, ACTUAL AMOUNT DEDUCTED FROM OUR MILTARY PAY, not some imaginary amount of $$$ that is not real money, a real $12k a year ADDED to pay, and is taxable income...

Food $300 a month

Car, ZERO, we owned it (honda civic)

Insurance $349 every 6 months for full coverage

Cable internet $44 a month

Electric ZERO Water ZERO (remember, we are paying $900 a month RENT!)

Heath Insurance ZERO

$1244 every month in BILLS

Now, deduct what we MADE...

$2200 a month pay AFTER taxes,
divided by the number of hours each of us worked in army (60 hours a week)
so thats 60 hours a week for a total of 240 hours a month divided
by the take home pay of $2200 thats approx $9.17 a hour.

$956 a month left in spending $$$$.

As far as the credit question goes, we have excellent credit, because when we did use credit, we payed everything on time, and have no deliquencies....

And as far as savings, we have almost 100k CASH in the bank....

Who says you cannot SAVE $$$ being in the military, is the same person who is BROKE 1 week after payday!

Homes that sold for approx 260K @ 5% interest (a good median number for Hawaii for a decent 3bd, working class neighborhood that isn't centrally located near anything) is $1400/month, and that's without the additional house insurance and land tax factors, which is another $2-300/month.

If you own your own home, you pay for your own utilities

$200/month electric (provided you get those solar panels on that roof and propane in the stove and don't run a/c at all!)
$50/month water
$20/month sewer bill
don't forget propane, internet, phone, cable, if you do that tv thing.

2007 Reality Check: Try finding a 3bd home for $260K. Good luck at getting that 5% interest rate, too.

[tutusue]

Re: How much $$ do you REALLY need to live in hawaii?

Rent $900 to live on base, ACTUAL AMOUNT DEDUCTED FROM OUR MILTARY PAY, not some imaginary amount of $$$ that is not real money, a real $12k a year ADDED to pay, and is taxable income...

Food $300 a month

Car, ZERO, we owned it (honda civic)

Insurance $349 every 6 months for full coverage

Cable internet $44 a month

Electric ZERO Water ZERO (remember, we are paying $900 a month RENT!)

Heath Insurance ZERO

$1244 every month in BILLS
[...]

Just curious, how did you arrive at the $1244. figure?