Maori "terrorists"

[Te Poutiki a Tai]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

Since it has not been proven that they (the arrested) were training with military style weapons it would be premature of us to deplore them if nothing has been proven. Were they proven guilty there would be a lot of shame on us. In Maori society, people try their best not to assume, as they only make an ass out of themselves if they're wrong. So, I deplore the actions of the police in that they could have handled this much better. In the end, they may not charge them under the terrorism law but could instead go for them under the fire arms law.

That should have read 'were they not proven guilty'.

Hopefully the courts will remain unbiased and be as impartial as possible.

[sinjin]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

Those are only allegations. No evidence has been brought forward yet that they were actually having paramilitary training. So far, this whole investigation hinges on so called evidence that the Police have collected and two eye witness accounts.



None. Now had there been any weapons, that would be a different story. But no, there were no weapons at all.



I hate sounding cliche, but we're (adult Maori) no strangers to the idea of weapons and what they can do. Maori children on the other hand, are. Most of the NZ Army, Airforce and Navy are made up of Maori. Our culture has also had a lot of endemic warfare in the past pre-European contact and post-European contact (as have every other good Polynesian group). To drive someone to use weapons in Maori society these days however is to drive someone to the extreme. You'd have to be directly attacking their mana and tapu - which are the causes of war.

Since it has not been proven that they (the arrested) were training with military style weapons it would be premature of us to deplore them if nothing has been proven. Were they proven guilty there would be a lot of shame on us. In Maori society, people try their best not to assume, as they only make an ass out of themselves if they're wrong. So, I deplore the actions of the police in that they could have handled this much better. In the end, they may not charge them under the terrorism law but could instead go for them under the fire arms law.

I truly appreciate your thoughtful responses.

[Te Poutiki a Tai]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

Those are only allegations. No evidence has been brought forward yet that they were actually having paramilitary training. So far, this whole investigation hinges on so called evidence that the Police have collected and two eye witness accounts.

Were any illegal weapons seized from the homes where these "scared children" reside?

None. Now had there been any weapons, that would be a different story. But no, there were no weapons at all.

Are there no Maori voices deploring those training with military style weapons?

I hate sounding cliche, but we're (adult Maori) no strangers to the idea of weapons and what they can do. Maori children on the other hand, are. Most of the NZ Army, Airforce and Navy are made up of Maori. Our culture has also had a lot of endemic warfare in the past pre-European contact and post-European contact (as have every other good Polynesian group). To drive someone to use weapons in Maori society these days however is to drive someone to the extreme. You'd have to be directly attacking their mana and tapu - which are the causes of war.

Since it has not been proven that they (the arrested) were training with military style weapons it would be premature of us to deplore them if nothing has been proven. Were they proven guilty there would be a lot of shame on us. In Maori society, people try their best not to assume, as they only make an ass out of themselves if they're wrong. So, I deplore the actions of the police in that they could have handled this much better. In the end, they may not charge them under the terrorism law but could instead go for them under the fire arms law.

[sinjin]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

The Maori that I am hearing from (as outlined above) are arguing that Activism is not Terrorism. They question WHO was targeted during these raids (those who have been prominently outspoken against the government) and also the TIMING of these raids - leading up to an election year and especially during a time when the government is meeting to discuss the Terrorism Suppression Amendment Bill. They also question the police's scare tactics that involved many children who were at home during the raids or who were in vehicles that were stopped by armed police officers.

Were any illegal weapons seized from the homes where these "scared children" reside? Are there no Maori voices deploring those training with military style weapons?

[1stwahine]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

I just watched this Video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00mRMpAVs98&NR=1

Auntie Lynn

Re: Maori "terrorists"

.....It is one thing to read commentary, quite another to connect via watching a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWgE_6nhIZA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc_VAf5Fb20

[Te Poutiki a Tai]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

between the maori television and tvone websites, I am not finding a video/news clip on these current events. Do either of you know where to acquire one, so as to help the Rim™ wrap around the issue? It is one thing to read commentary, quite another to connect via watching a video.

Kia ora pua'imana'o,

Have you been going to this link? I've cut and pasted it here. Te Kaea has been covering these events quite religiously so I'm surprised that you haven't seen anything...

http://www.maoritelevision.com/progr...aea_online.htm

Of course, I meant 'descendant' as in Rua Kenana is from the same tribe and fought these same battles with the crown last century. His name is known here in Hawai'i because local band Kapena covered the song Rua Kenana (from the Once Were Warriors soundtrack) and released it on their album "Kapena Is Da Crew." I just don't know how many people here who have seen Kapena do that song live or who have that album realize the story of the man behind the song.

Ah I see, in that case it should be;

The TUHOE tribe at the center of these raids are known as a strong and politically defiant tribe. Nicknamed "Nga Tamariki o te Kohu" – the Children of the Mist, they are the tribe which Rua Kenana belonged to(no, it's not just a song covered by Kapena)

If you say that they are the descendants of Rua Kenana, you're saying Rua Kenana is their ancestor.

Kia ora e tuakana for your whakaaro...

I'm your tungāne btw (I'm a man), and you're my tuahine. But the thought is appreciated still e te tuahine.

Thankyou for reporting on this issue here.

There is also another discussion taking place on www.maori.org.nz if people are interested at taking a squiz.

Heoi ano aku kupu

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

between the maori television and tvone websites, I am not finding a video/news clip on these current events. Do either of you know where to acquire one, so as to help the Rim™ wrap around the issue? It is one thing to read commentary, quite another to connect via watching a video.

[kiwidiva]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

The "Maori bashing" continues on the message boards of the New Zealand Herald...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/st...0470189&pnum=2

while the Maori take to the streets...

Hundreds protest against terror raids...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/in...m?c_id=1501470

The Maori that I am hearing from (as outlined above) are arguing that Activism is not Terrorism. They question WHO was targeted during these raids (those who have been prominently outspoken against the government) and also the TIMING of these raids - leading up to an election year and especially during a time when the government is meeting to discuss the Terrorism Suppression Amendment Bill. They also question the police's scare tactics that involved many children who were at home during the raids or who were in vehicles that were stopped by armed police officers.

[kiwidiva]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

Kia ora e tuakana for your whakaaro...

Just a correction here.

They are the descendants of Hine-pukohu-rangi (The Maiden of the Mist) and Te Maunga (The Mountain).

Rua Kenana however was an influential spiritual leader amongst the Tuhoe people, setting up a pa (fortified village) on Maunga Pohatu.

Of course, I meant 'descendant' as in Rua Kenana is from the same tribe and fought these same battles with the crown last century. His name is known here in Hawai'i because local band Kapena covered the song Rua Kenana (from the Once Were Warriors soundtrack) and released it on their album "Kapena Is Da Crew." I just don't know how many people here who have seen Kapena do that song live or who have that album realize the story of the man behind the song.

I have been trying to follow this story closely from across the Pacific - but I'm getting tired of the Maori bashing that I'm seeing on message boards back home. I was trying to keep an open mind until all the facts come out but the racism and stereotyping is becoming all too strong. I just received this plea...

URGENT: RAIDS ON MAORI ACTIVISTS UNDER TERRORISM ACT - PLEASE SUPPORT US!

From: Kiritapu Allan
Oct 17. 2007
Subject: URGENT: RAIDS ON MAORI ACTIVISTS UNDER TERRORISM ACT - PLEASE SUPPORT US

Please forward amongst your networks.

Dear Friends, Colleagues and Family,

It is in great distress that I am urged to write this appeal and to inform our
international community of the recent events that are happening within Aotearoa (New Zealand) social justice, environmental justice and indigenous movements.

For the past 60 hours Aotearoa activists have been subjected to home invasions, raids and interrogation under threats of terrorist activities against the state.

The Crown has decided to employ its recent Terrorism Suppression Act to lock down on social justice activist, movers and shakers and this is now world wide news with many of our close friends and families houses (mine included) being invaded, possessions confiscated and charges being threatened which will allow for solid activists to be charged under the Terrorist Suppression Act that carries sentencing for life.

The ages of people currently under custody range from 18 to 64. Many of us being implicated in this investigation are young people trying to do good
things for our communities.

We are headed into an election year and these events are the largest scale operation headed by special operations from the head of states office. We have difficulty in understanding the timing for these invasions of our privacy except for political campaigning off of our backs.

The indigenous movement for self - determination is what is being blamed by the media for instigating acts of terrorism,

The Police showed up at my house with files of my activities over years, my phones have been tapped for years, my house under surveillance and everything subject to their review.

We have not been involved in any activities that could allow the police to make these claims and the distress they are causing for our families and children is devastating.

Right now we are fighting for friends in Police Custody to make bail. A number of these requests have been denied. A number of people are now been moved between prisons and I will be liasing with them and their families.

Court costs, travel costs, food costs and lawyer costs are above the heads of many of our people and we are asking for support from our communities both national and international to come to our aid in this time of need. “Terrorism” world wide has become a cause for unjust state intervention into the lives of many peoples committed to change and now we are seeing that reality play out here in our own backyards within our own community.

Please support us in anyway specifically:

- Sending your concerns against state interventions to Annette King, Minister of Police (aking@ministers.govt.nz) and to your local New Zealand Embassy’s;
- By sending financial support towards the Family Support Network to assist with food, travel expenses and Court costs and;
- By sharing our stories with your own networks.

We have had some international support by indigenous brothers and sisters by way of protests on the streets outside the NZ Embassy’s, we encourage any of you to organize and do the same. Thank you all for taking the time to hear what is happening for us here in Aotearoa, these are very troubling times.

For further information please refer to:
http://www.indymedia.org.nz/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4240168a25364...

Most of our internet sites have been taken down also in relation to these chain of events however all responses and correspondence can be made through me.

Mauriora,
Kiritapu Allan
Co – Director, Conscious Collaborations
www.conscious.maori.nz
+64 21 0256 5068

[Te Poutiki a Tai]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

The government is terrorizing the Tuhoe people because they will not yield to the Crown.

The Tuhoe don't deserve this. They are an independant people.

The TUHOE tribe at the center of these raids are known as a strong and politically defiant tribe. Nicknamed "Nga Tamariki o te Kohu" – the Children of the Mist, they are the descendants of Rua Kenana

Just a correction here.

They are the descendants of Hine-pukohu-rangi (The Maiden of the Mist) and Te Maunga (The Mountain).

Rua Kenana however was an influential spiritual leader amongst the Tuhoe people, setting up a pa (fortified village) on Maunga Pohatu.

The battle of Orakau was conducted in Ngati Maniapoto lands as the government was setting about destroying the Tainui peoples. My tribe, the Ngati Apakura, was the tribe that was virtually exterminated at the church in Rangiaowhia when people hid inside and prayed to God as the government soldiers went by and burnt the church down, killing everyone inside.

The government confiscated the Waikato, forced the sale of alcohol in Ngati Maniapoto lands, and claimed most of Hauraki through the credit system that they had going on with the shops (where by people racked up debts. The shop keepers could ask for the debt to be paid back at any time; thus, they let Maori rack up huge debts. If the Maori could not pay the debts, their lands were automatically ceeded to the shop owners).

Auckland (the most northern point of Tainui) saw nearly all Tainui shipped off into prisons on remote islands. Families were split and divided.

As far as the raids go, those who who are against it say that the police are over reacting, locking up people on trumped up charges with little or no evidence. Targeting people (Maori) in poor and rural areas where many can't afford to register the guns they use for hunting. People in the area (many of whom had their houses ransacked and their families questioned and searched) say they had no knowledge of any "commando" camps training in the Urewera forest.

It was said in 2002 by Maoridom that the anti-terrorism laws would first be used against Maori. That has come to pass now.

[glossyp]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

My thanks as well for taking the time to explain something of this situation. I will be watching with interest as more information becomes available.

[1stwahine]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

Very Interesting & POWERFUL!

Thank you for sharing.

Auntie Lynn

[kiwidiva]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

The TUHOE tribe at the center of these raids are known as a strong and politically defiant tribe. Nicknamed "Nga Tamariki o te Kohu" – the Children of the Mist, they are the descendants of Rua Kenana (no, it's not just a song covered by Kapena) - http://aotearoa.wellington.net.nz/he/rua.htm

The back story is that Tuhoe's sense of injustice stems from the Crown's confiscation of their fertile lands after the battle of Orakau in 1864. Four years later, Tuhoe's crops and buildings were destroyed as part of the Government's "scorched earth policy".

Tuhoe have been fighting to have their lands returned ever since.

As far as the raids go, those who who are against it say that the police are over reacting, locking up people on trumped up charges with little or no evidence. Targeting people (Maori) in poor and rural areas where many can't afford to register the guns they use for hunting. People in the area (many of whom had their houses ransacked and their families questioned and searched) say they had no knowledge of any "commando" camps training in the Urewera forest.

The police are saying that they have been monitoring these 'groups' for over a year - they went in because of the discovery of a weapons cache that supposedly included molotov cocktails & napalm bombs (none have been seen yet as the media is not allowed into the area) and that they have allegedly intercepted text messages between group members that threaten that "white men are going to die in this country." There are hints of an IRA-style war plan against New Zealand that could go as far as threatening the Prime Minister.

Tame is a controversial figure (even among us Maori) and is known for his extreme views and the extreme measures that he seems willing to take to achieve his dream of an independent Tuhoe nation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uBOH...elated&search=

I'm still waiting to find out all the facts because I have a feeling that there is so much more that we don't know about regarding what has happened and what is happening in the Urewera forest.

[glossyp]

Re: Maori "terrorists"

In 2002, the Terrorism Suppression Act was enacted in New Zealand to combat the threat of international terrorism in response to the 9/11 attacks.

Current Maori Party Member of Parliament Te Ururoa Flavell said, "When the Terrorism Suppression Act came into law in 2002, Maori feared it was only a matter of time before it was used against them." And now it is...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4238846a10.html

On Monday, 17 people were arrested on firearms charges, with the possibility that more serious charges may be laid under anti-terrorism laws. Among those arrested is controversial Maori activist Tame Iti.

What is the back story on this? The article portrays the activities as being para-military in nature with a threat to public safety. I admit to knowing little about the Maori sovereignty movement. Is there a history of violence? Is this something new?