The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

[craigwatanabe]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

I have no problems talking about religion in politics. But hey I'm a religious guy.

Amazing though when someone get's hurt or is diagnosed and is a member of HT, suddenly we're all praying for their recovery. I know who I'm praying to, because praying is a religious thing to do. But what about athiests? Who do they pray to? Or does it fall on deaf ears?

We can keep religion out of political dialog, but who is to demand that? Who has the right to deny a religious person's right to exercise their freedom of religion in the context of free speech? Denying those two rights is against the law.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Amazing though when someone get's hurt or is diagnosed and is a member of HT, suddenly we're all praying for their recovery. I know who I'm praying to, because praying is a religious thing to do. But what about athiests? Who do they pray to? Or does it fall on deaf ears?

Where do you get that "all" part, Craig? Have any atheists here stated that they have been "praying" for such a thing? When someone needs support (moral, emotional, physical) that I can offer, I do so - but I don't claim that I am "praying" for anything, as that would be a lie.

We can keep religion out of political dialog, but who is to demand that? Who has the right to deny a religious person's right to exercise their freedom of religion in the context of free speech? Denying those two rights is against the law.

Again, there is also the concept of freedom from religion. And as I said before, if a politician feels that their religion will be a guide in how they plan to govern, then by all means, be open, upfront and honest with voters about it.

But, in my opinion, choosing our leaders based on whether or not they bow down to an invisible long-bearded fella watching millions of closed-circuit TV screens up in the clouds is about as useful as asking whether they prefer boxers or briefs.

[Karen]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Leo, I hear ya oh, so much in your closing comments. Yeah...this is the worst that can be dug up on him and you KNOW the clinton camp is sooo freakin desperate, so! Good....but, not so good cuz...uh....this even irrational sounding, extremist of a pastor is where he has gone and taken his kids. This is huge, but....

still better than clinton and I doubt McMuffin can win, so......I'll stay home and bake cookies while I can respect why you likely will vote Obama. I really mean the respect part.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Where do you get that "all" part, Craig? Have any atheists here stated that they have been "praying" for such a thing? When someone needs support (moral, emotional, physical) that I can offer, I do so - but I don't claim that I am "praying" for anything, as that would be a lie.
Again, there is also the concept of freedom from religion. And as I said before, if a politician feels that their religion will be a guide in how they plan to govern, then by all means, be open, upfront and honest with voters about it.

But, in my opinion, choosing our leaders based on whether or not they bow down to an invisible long-bearded fella watching millions of closed-circuit TV screens up in the clouds is about as useful as asking whether they prefer boxers or briefs.

Okay maybe not all just one or two

And who said I was talking about you?

And I think for religious people asking about their religion is a perfectly normal question if they bring it up in their campaign rhetoric. Remember that invisible long-bearded fella is just as cherished to those of us who respect and follow him as one who embraces a theory that man evolved.

[Karen]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Gallup polling is one of the more respectable and reliable ones. (I know...polls can say anything but often are dang near how things really are)

right now Obama is trailing both Clinton AND McMuffin in Gallup polling.


Clinton 49% to Obama 42%

McCain 47% to Obama 43% in General Election

This year will continue to have twists, turns and convention surprises, I bet. It'll be anything but boring, heck, maybe everything...but.

[Random]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

It's bound to get nastier than that, before this is all over.

And I expect no less from the Democrats. Just hope that both leave some meat on their bones for John McCain.

BTW, is this the first glimpse of what is being dubbed by the news media as the "Black Church Experience"? I'm not saying that all churches are like that or have fired-up clergy like Pastor Wright, but is it common?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

And I expect no less from the Democrats. Just hope that both leave some meat on their bones for John McCain.

BTW, is this the first glimpse of what is being dubbed by the news media as the "Black Church Experience"? I'm not saying that all churches are like that or have fired-up clergy like Pastor Wright, but is it common?

Ever been to a New Hope church on Sundays...man it's a production

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Where do you get that "all" part, Craig? Have any atheists here stated that they have been "praying" for such a thing? When someone needs support (moral, emotional, physical) that I can offer, I do so - but I don't claim that I am "praying" for anything, as that would be a lie.

And who said I was talking about you?

I didn't say you were - but unlike your comments, I can only respond on my own behalf, as I did. But I would still like to see examples of "prayer" by any other HT-ers who are self-professed atheists.

And I think for religious people asking about their religion is a perfectly normal question if they bring it up in their campaign rhetoric.

The portion I have highlighted is where you and I are certainly in agreement. I just wish it were less of an issue, as much as Sen. Obama's race or Sen. Clinton's gender. I try (and sometimes fail) to be blind to those distinctions, so I can judge candidates on their political performances.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

I didn't say you were - but unlike your comments, I can only respond on my own behalf, as I did. But I would still like to see examples of "prayer" by any other HT-ers who are self-professed atheists.The portion I have highlighted is where you and I are certainly in agreement. I just wish it were less of an issue, as much as Sen. Obama's race or Sen. Clinton's gender. I try (and sometimes fail) to be blind to those distinctions, so I can judge candidates on their political performances.

Sorry Leo Lakio I took your statements out of context.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Just so's everyone knows --- Craig & Karen & I aren't having a pi$$ing match here. We hold some different opinions, but we respect each other enough to go back-and-forth on topics like this.

Sorry if we disturbed anyone in the process. As I noted earlier, politics + religion are a dangerous combo. Group hug!

[craigwatanabe]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Just so's everyone knows --- Craig & Karen & I aren't having a pi$$ing match here. We hold some different opinions, but we respect each other enough to go back-and-forth on topics like this.

Sorry if we disturbed anyone in the process. As I noted earlier, politics + religion are a dangerous combo. Group hug!

Geez and just when I thought this thread was hot enough to bust out my marshmellows and blaze a few

So anyone up for a lively chat on Death and Taxes?

[Karen]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Huh? what did I miss? Someone's not happy from our postings on here? I mean because of us, not cuz of the content per se? oh,whatever.....nah, I couldn't be smiling more or relaxed & happier from my communication with these two.

Hey! latest Rasmussen poll...what in the blankety-blank is going on?? Remember, I'm GOP and not wanting either of the "big 3."

McCain 51% over Clinton 41%
McCain 49% over Obama 42%

Remember, just yesterday Gallup had him winning over Obama.....wow.

Obama would've had it before people hearing and seeing the videos of his extremely nutty pastor of so many years, I feel sure of it, or I did.

Now...a report is out that his church reprinted the Hamas Terror Manifesto and defended it as legitimate resistance and even compared it to our country's Declaration of Independence! It was published on their "Pastor's Page" of their newsletter.

I now believe Obama's chances are plummeting. He HAD a lot of white and maybe even Jewish votes. This sure as hell matters cuz he has been a member at least, reportedly 20yrs. and had his precioud kids baptized by this nutty preacher and we can only assume that as a good church member all those years he gave money, as well as obvious types of support to this nuttiness.

Baking cookies never sounded better for an election day. Vote? for whom? The country is showing it doesn't want clinton or she'd not be getting beat in the polls while Obama is suffering what is becoming his true scandal. Thank God it is.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Huh? what did I miss? Someone's not happy from our postings on here? I mean because of us, not cuz of the content per se? oh,whatever.....

No, sorry for any confusion. My comment was pre-emptive (and based on past experience). All is well.

Thanks for the poll updates. Shows that those things are getting less and less trustworthy all the time, especially during this election season. Their accuracy has come into question more than ever before, it seems.

I've heard it suggested that one reason is that pollsters can only call land-lines, not cell phones. More and more people have switched from land-lines to cell phones these days, especially amongst younger (potential) voters - who might turn out to be one of the most influential groups in this contest.


Or it could be that the subversives among us are emboldened to a higher degree than ever before...but you didn't hear that from me.

[Vanguard]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Reverend Wright was guest at the (Clinton) White House

Obama's passport records compromised

[craigwatanabe]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

No, sorry for any confusion. My comment was pre-emptive (and based on past experience). All is well.

Yep don't mind us...we're picking up the dead and wounded. carry on