The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

This may be true but I don't think the history books credit Ross Perot, and I do not recall on election night anyone talking much about Perot's impact on the election. His run as a 3rd party candidate was most certainly impressive, but by 1996 he was not a factor at all.

But however great or small an impact you want to give to Ross Perot in the results of the '92 presidential election, you can't be serious in saying the Iran-Contra scandal and the '87 stock market crash had a bigger imprint than Perot's campaign. That just doesn't make sense.

And when it comes to economics, voters base their decisions about what's going on now, not what was happening five years ago. Or even a year ago.

What I'm saying here is that elections are not decided on what happened 4 years ago. It's decided on what is happening now.

Heck, I'll even say that Pat Buchanan's abortive 1992 bid for the GOP nomination (a minor footnote in the annals of American history, if even that) had significantly more relevance to the '92 presidential campaign than anything having to do with Dukakis' efforts in '88.

1992 was moreso a combination of the economy in a recession and Bush's 90% popularity during the Gulf War that was shrunk in half by election time, ironic that his son is suffering some of the same sins of the father.

Fortunately for Jr. Bush (and unfortunately for the country), the difference is that the economy tanked at the end of Dubya's 2nd term. Whether he is doing a good or bad job, he's a lameduck president. And judging by the way he's conducting himself, it's obvious he doesn't give a rip about his record high disapproval rating.

But in hindsight I'd take Senior Bush over what we have now in the White House in a heartbeat.

I still have my "Don't Blame Me. I voted for Nader." bumper sticker.

[oceanpacific]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

I don't have the time now, but I'll look up Bush, Sr.'s popular and electoral votes state-by-state to verify how much of an impact Perot's 19% popular vote drew from the Republican ticket in 1992 to give Clinton the edge. I'd say that it's going to be very significant.

[Kalihiboy]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

But however great or small an impact you want to give to Ross Perot in the results of the '92 presidential election, you can't be serious in saying the Iran-Contra scandal and the '87 stock market crash had a bigger imprint than Perot's campaign. That just doesn't make sense. And when it comes to economics, voters base their decisions about what's going on now, not what was happening five years ago. Or even a year ago. What I'm saying here is that elections are not decided on what happened 4 years ago. It's decided on what is happening now.

I still have my "Don't Blame Me. I voted for Nader." bumper sticker.

What I meant is Reagan's second term that had those events occur may have contributed to Senior Bush not having the enromous landslide over Dukakis. Don't get me wrong Bush defeated Dukakis by quite a margin in both popular and electoral votes, but it clearly was not the margin of victory Reagan had in 1980 and 1984. Whether it was Dukakis or some Joe Blow in 1988, I think things were starting to turn for the Dem's. I mean you have to look at alone bright spot in defeat, that is what I always looked at in 1988.

I have my "Don't Blame me, I voted for Kerry." My then less than 2 year old son had a matching shirt to wear as well.

Aj

[Kalihiboy]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

I don't have the time now, but I'll look up Bush, Sr.'s popular and electoral votes state-by-state to verify how much of an impact Perot's 19% popular vote drew from the Republican ticket in 1992 to give Clinton the edge. I'd say that it's going to be very significant.

This excerpt from The NY Times on 11/5/92 written by Steven A. Holmes:

Mr. Swindle's prideful sentiments notwithstanding, the impact of Mr. Perot's supporters on the campaign's outcome appears to have been minimal. If Mr. Perot had not been on the ballot, 38 percent of his voters said, they would have voted for Gov. Bill Clinton, and 38 percent said they would have voted for President Bush. Of the 31 states where Mr. Perot garnered more than 20 percent, 17 were won by Mr. Clinton and 14 by Mr. Bush. A Breeze, Not a Storm

[Vanguard]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

McCain adviser steps down to avoid working against Obama

[Lei Liko]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

I saw this on another message board I frequent and thought it was funny:

In Loving Memory



Hillary for President

January 20, 2008 - May 20, 2008

ORDER OF SERVICE

Trinity United Church of Christ
Chicago, IL

Processional
Family is led in by 20 year-old Emina Bicakcic of Bosnia carrying flowers

Musical Selection
"I Don't Feel No Ways Tired"

Family Prayer
Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright

Prelude Music
Elton John "The Bitch Is Dead"

Invocation
The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan

Musical Tribute
President Bill Clinton on the Saxophone

Tribute
Maya Angelou

Speaker
Andrew R. Young

Remarks
Bob Johnson
Geraldine Ferraro
Magic Johnson
Monica Lewinsky
Maryann Pernold

Musical Selection
President Bill Clinton on Saxophone w/Daughter Chelsea Clinton
"Didn't We Almost Have It All"

Reading
Toni Morrison "Almost the first Black female President"

Benediction
Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright

Musical Selection
50 Cent ""I Get Money"

Offering
(Someone's got to pay for the service)

Norman Hsu

Pallbearers
(With her to the very end...)

Rep. Alcee Hastings
Rep. Charles Rangel
Rep. Corrine Brown
Rep. David Scott
Rep. Dianne Watson
Rep. Donna Christian-Christensen
Rep. Edolphus Towns
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver
Rep. Gregory Meeks
Rep. Kendrick Meek
Rep. Laura Richardson
Rep. Maxine Waters
Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee
Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones
Rep. Yvette Clarke

Honorary Pallbearers

President G.W. Bush
Gov. Bill Richardson
Rep. Dennis Kucinich
Sen. Barack Obama
Sen. John Edwards
Sen. John McCain
Gov. Howard Dean
Rep. Ron Paul
Gov. Mike Huckabee
Mitt Romney
Sen. Joe Biden
Sen. Christopher Dodd
Sen. Mike Gravel
Gov. Tom Vilsak
Rudy Giuliani
Sen. Sam Brownback
Gov. Jim Gilmore
Rep. Duncan Hunter
Rep. Tom Tancredo
Sen. Fred Thompson
Gov. Tommy Thompson
Alan Keyes
Rep. Cynthia McKinney
Gov. Howard Dean

[MyopicJoe]

Go Hillary go!

Hillary Clinton's argument for staying in the race...

"We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California."

Take THAT Obama!

*smirk*

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_103319.html

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Go Hillary go!

I'm all for Hillary getting the Oval Office just for the finger in the eye to all the Hillary/Clinton haters, but she needs to sit down, take a break, and find a new row to how.

[cyleet99]

Re: Go Hillary go!

YOU are TOO funny, Joe!!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Go Hillary go!

I'm certainly no Hillary-hater, and would certainly vote for her over Sen. McCain, were she the nominee, despite the fact that my preference at present is for Sen. Obama.

But she is sounding frighteningly desparate in these waning days of the primary season, and her statements are becoming more and more discomforting. This assassination reference, on the heels of her "white Americans" comments, make me feel that the time for her to end her campaign has passed.

Unfortunately, she is coming across as bitter, as if Sen. Obama spoiled her run for the presidency, as if it was her turn for the office, that she was destined for an historic first, and it now appears that he may be the one to be a "first."

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Go Hillary go!

YOU are TOO funny, Joe!!

I just can't resist taking a cheap shot, Cindy

she needs to sit down, take a break

Unfortunately, she is coming across as bitter

Yeah. I get the sense she's burning out also. It's brutal to be the public face of a gigantic political organization. And it's no fun being on a losing team.

I don't envy any presidential candidate, nor a president for that matter. I have a friend who's finishing up his second term as mayor of his little New England town. He's proud of what he's accomplished, but he's had enough of politics and won't run for another term.


And to be fair to Hillary, I quoted a quote of her, out of context. Like I said, a cheap shot.


My daughter will be sad. She wanted to see a woman president. She also wanted Hillary and Obama to share office so we could have both a first woman and a first non-white president.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Go Hillary go!

My daughter will be sad. She wanted to see a woman president.

Someday, she will - maybe not this time around, but it's gonna happen, and probably in her lifetime. Hey - maybe she'll be the one.

[SusieMisajon]

This guy is really pisssed off at Hillary.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...98368#24798368

[mel]

Should This Thread be in "Hawaii Hall"?

Doesn't this thread belong in the "American Asylum" more than it does here with "Hawaii Hall"? How much of the posts are national vs. local in this topic thread?

[cynsaligia]

Re: This guy is really pisssed off at Hillary.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...98368#24798368

that is the same guy whose comments about making clinton end her candidacy evoked images of "beating" sense into women:

Somebody who can take her into a room and only he comes out.

--Keith Olbermann, April 23, 2008.

eric and i were avid watchers of "countdown," despite olbermann's clear bias towards obama. other than the obama v. clinton matter, we were sympatico with olbermann.

in his most recent special comments (for which susie provided the video), he repeatedly says that "we have forgiven (clinton).... (insert something she did that he didn't like here)."

well, even if i preferred obama over clinton, as a domestic abuse survivor, i could never find it in myself to forgive olbermann.