Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

[pzarquon]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

Bush leads Kerry in projected EVs, 237-188 at ABC, 197-188 CNN, 192-153 L.A. Times. Florida is in Bush's column, and it doesn't look half as close as last time. So far, though, no states have changed color from 2000.

Ohio will be key. If Bush gets Ohio, he needs, say, only Colorado and he's done. If Kerry gets Ohio, he needs only Wisconsin. Or two out of three from Nevada, New Mexico, or Iowa.

Whoever wins, I just hope we'll know for sure in under than three weeks.

[Linkmeister]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

C-Span has an awesome map. Roll over states to see Presidential and Congressional races.

In those upper Midwest states (Mich., Wisc., Minn., Iowa) Kerry has 1% leads in each with about 75% precincts voting. Lawsuits coming (in fact, already there) in Ohio. See here and search for the Ohio category for contemporaneous posts from the ground.

[craigwatanabe]

269 vs 254 EC votes

What's up with that? MSNBC had Bush ahead in the electorial college votes 269 for Bush vs 211 for Kerry, yet virtually all other news and websites had it at 254 for Bush vs 242 for Kerry.

CNN with their election coverage had it even lower until just after 11pm HST when they updated to everyone else (254 to 242). It's 11:30pm November 2nd and as I type this MSNBC still has the EC count at 269 to 211 while CNN has it at 254 to 242.

Mind you it takes 270 EC votes to declare a victory and with Bush at 1 vote away according to MSNBC, the people there pretty much are calling it a Bush victory! CNN on the other hand isn't saying much.

Net surfing before posting this message finds most websites reflecting CNN's numbers.

Either way it's in Iowa's hands now as Wisconson's votes won't matter much with only 10 EC votes, it won't be enough to put Kerry ahead. Iowa's saying they will wait until the absentee and military votes are compiled sometime November 13th? We gotta wait another 2-weeks? Something's messed up there. And with Edwards saying that every vote will be counted, you can pretty much believe if they lose, they will demand a recount.

[mel]

Re: 269 vs 254 EC votes

I've been on Fox off and on most of the night and they're going with that 269 to 242 count, though it is based on projection. I hate projection. They should use the actual numbers.

I need to go to sleep....

[pzarquon]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

We went to bed fairly certain that the presidency would not be decided for a few days, with over 100,000 "provisional ballots" yet to be individually verified and counted in Ohio. But literally as I was typing a blasphemous "I wanted Bush to win bad but I think Kerry should just bow out and spare us another 2000 debacle," the word is breaking this instant that Kerry is indeed doing so, calling Bush to concede.

Record voter turnout across the country, with numerous but not critical "irregularities" reported. Bush won the symbolically important popular vote, and quite conceivably would've come out on top even after the final Ohio tally. I don't like the outcome, but like I said before, I just wanted a relatively clear winner... the people's will is the people's will.

I won't bellyache about stolen elections. I will continue to hold Bush accountable for the messes he's created, and hope for a candidate considerably more appealing than Kerry in 2008.

[Miulang]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

John Kerry has conceded the election as of a few minutes ago. I hope now the deep chasms that divide the people of the United States can start to be healed so we move forward as a country united again.

If not, I am sure there were will be serious backlash for the Republicans in the mid-term elections in 2006, when the composition of Congress could change radically.

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

Eric Alterman over at MSNBC summed it up best for me:

Let’s face it. It’s not Kerry’s fault. It’s not Nader’s fault (this time). It’s not the media’s fault (though they do bear a heavy responsibility for much of what ails our political system). It’s not “our” fault either. The problem is just this: Slightly more than half of the citizens of this country simply do not care about what those of us in the “reality-based community” say or believe about anything.

They won, because they had more votes than we did. That's how the system works.

I wonder if citizens of Germany felt this way in the early 1930s? They had a working democracy there, too. For a while.

[Miulang]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

Actually, I think the Democrats are a class act for not wanting to contest any of the many elections that they could have. They at least have enough sense to know that to prolong the agony would be to say they had not learned from the mistakes of 2000.

I think if the outcome were in favor of the Democrats, though, the hue and cry from the Republicans would have taken this thing into 2005 with all the lawsuits. The Republicans appear to be (as a Party) more mean spirited and vindictive.

I have mentioned the cyclical theory of history a few times here. Again, I think in 2006 there is going to be huge backlash against the Republicans who have the misfortune of having to run for office in that year unless the Party really reaches out to those they have alienated and proves that they can work with compromise, too.

Miulang

[pzarquon]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

I agree, even if Kerry could have won Ohio, the odds were impossible. I hear Edwards and crew wanted to fight to the bitter end, just as the Republicans would have, but Kerry and his team wanted to keep their word and not subject the country to another 2000 fiasco. Good call.

Of course, when the Ohio ballots are all counted, it would sure beat all if Kerry could have won.

I'm a firm believer in balance and cycles, and can only chalk up this notable nationwide majority win - from the White House to the houses of congress and state houses across the country - as the inevitable conservative swing following a (broadly speaking) pretty good run on the liberal side. A former coworker, a diehard Republican, e-mailed this morning to say, "Welcome to the minority. Want my notes?" At least now I know I'm not imagining things when I feel my values and principles are beset upon from all sides... not unlike the way conservatives felt years ago.

I think predicting a tide-turning backlash in 2006 or 2008 is pretty optimistic, though... historically, I imagine we're looking at a considerably longer interval. My wife's ready to move to Canada.

But as I lick my wounds and stock up on laughing gas for the next four years, I realize that one thing that really worries me about a second Bush term - besides the reckless policy abandon that'll be unavoidable in a final term with majorities in both the House and Senate - is the Supreme Court. I always took comfort in the fact that decisions were often split... half pissed me off, half I cheered, as it should be. If Bush gets to appoint as many new justices as people are predicting, the last check in our checks-and-balances system could go right out the window.

[Albert]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

A sad day for the United States of America.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

at least for 49% of it.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

Actually, I think the Democrats are a class act for not wanting to contest any of the many elections that they could have. They at least have enough sense to know that to prolong the agony would be to say they had not learned from the mistakes of 2000.

I think if the outcome were in favor of the Democrats, though, the hue and cry from the Republicans would have taken this thing into 2005 with all the lawsuits. The Republicans appear to be (as a Party) more mean spirited and vindictive.

I have mentioned the cyclical theory of history a few times here. Again, I think in 2006 there is going to be huge backlash against the Republicans who have the misfortune of having to run for office in that year unless the Party really reaches out to those they have alienated and proves that they can work with compromise, too.

Miulang

Kerry was a class act for conceding without the count. Edwards on the other hand...well he was a trial lawyer and as one trial lawyer said: It's not about ethics it's all about about winning.

Let's hope Bush will at least allow Kerry to voice the plans he would have utilized to end the Iraq war.

[Miulang]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

I feel really really badly for the people of Manhattan and the neighboring boroughs. They suffered the worst ravages of terrorism while most of us could only watch, aghast, at the sight on the evening news.

This past election, the people of NYC voted overwhelmingly against the President--the man who they should have been grateful to for helping bring their city back together again. They should have given him such a strong mandate to continue his efforts against terrorism because that would have indicated that they had faith in his ability to keep what happened on Sept. 11 from happening to them again.

And yet, they voted against him. What do the people of NYC know about this man and his Administration that the vast middle America and South don't get?

Here's part of a story from today's NY Times that really really makes me sad for NYC and for the midwest.

"Some New Yorkers, like Meredith Hackett, a 25-year-old barmaid in Brooklyn, said they didn't even know any people who had voted for President Bush. (In both Manhattan and the Bronx, Mr. Bush received 16.7 percent of the vote.) Others spoke of a feeling of isolation from their fellow Americans, a sense that perhaps Middle America doesn't care as much about New York and its animating concerns as it seemed to in the weeks immediately after the attack on the World Trade Center.

"Everybody seems to hate us these days," said Zito Joseph, a 63-year-old retired psychiatrist. "None of the people who are likely to be hit by a terrorist attack voted for Bush. But the heartland people seemed to be saying, 'We're not affected by it if there would be another terrorist attack.' "

More here:http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/nyregion/04york.html

Miulang

[Kalihiboy]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

First off the President did not receive a mandate. A mandate is Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon winning 49 states. Bush wins yet another election by mysteriously winning ONE state that is GOP controlled. How can you declare a mandate if you only won by one state?? On a local level if you won by over 3 million votes then you have a clear cut winner, but on a national level its not close to a landslide.

Bush won the closest election for a incumbent in history, more people voted against a incumbent in history as well.

You know I literally had nightmares for the past two weeks that the voting machines would be hacked and rigged to default all Kerry votes to Bush. I am a firm believer that was the case. Kerry might have conceded but myself and others will not put up with this. There will be an investigation into this and Kerry will be sorry in the end of pulling out early.

http://stolenelection2004.com/

Kalihi Boy

[Miulang]

Re: Bush v. Kerry: The Final Round

Stumbled across this website dedicated to the people who voted against Bush and who are very very sorry. Cute pix. Makes you want to laugh and cry at the same time: http://www.sorryeverybody.com/gallery/1/

Miulang