Unsettled Economy & The Bailout

[matapule]

Re: Nabobinator! Now that's gold!

I think the Republican plan would have been a lot better, inasmuch as it wouldn't have included social programs and all the pork the Democrats threw in that does not create jobs..

Excellent Bob, you played the socialism card. Since you are opposed to socialism, then I expect that you will refuse Social Security, Medicare, public highways, public parks, public safety, the military, and etc. These are all social programs that benefit you, but since you are opposed to social programs, I expect you will refuse your share.

What you refuse to acknowledge is that every dollar thrown into the public trough creates jobs either directly or indirectly.

[matapule]

Re: Unsettled Economy & The Bailout

Bailing out giant corporations should be against everything any card carrying liberal believes in. Don't you remember....Big Corporate America is the bad guy. Or so the saying goes. Now Dems want to prop up those same people they villify. Just more cognitive dissonance from the left. Too funny..

Tim, you are re-writing history. These are your "a priori" convictions but that doesn't make them true. Educate yourself man! Your protestations show an apalling lack of understanding of the history behind the issues.

[matapule]

Re: Nabobinator! Now that's gold!

Bottom line is: The government can't stimulate anything by spending our money. It's like killing the goose and saying we hope and pray for more eggs. How stupid is that?

I wish you would have been on board with that philosophy when W dumped $1 trillion into Iraq!

The government can create short-term work, but it can't create jobs.

Huh? You lost me with that pithy pellet.

Obama wants to fund shovel ready infrastructure projects. Yeah, right. Did you know that this plan won't take effect until 2010? You can't just build something out of thin air. There's a lot of planning and procurement hoops to jump over.

There is the ultimate contradiction! This IS 2009. Yes it will take time to get projects up and running. 2010 is just round the corner!

The Republican's position to offer more tax increases would take effect immediately. Now THAT would stimulate the economy and let the crooks fall where they should.

Huh? again! The Republicans want to increase taxes? Wow, this is news! How do tax increases, in and of themselves, stimulate the economy? How does increasing taxes expose crooks?

The more you post, the more confuseder I get!

[matapule]

Re: Unsettled Economy & The Bailout

Getting rid of the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy in the military and approving U.S. tax $ to fund abortions overseas during the first week of his presidency is a ton of dismanteling, I'd say.

Give me some links to what you re talking about, please. This sounds like some sound bites from the Dredge Report or the Lush Rimbarf "show."

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Unsettled Economy & The Bailout

I hate to say it, but some folks here are passing along false information based on misleading media stories and incomplete data. Media Matters put out a report highlighting 7 highly publicized myths that the mainstream media has put out re: the stimulus package. Just thought I'd share a couple of them on this thread, to provide a more complete and balanced view on some of the claims that a couple of people here are trying to pass off as "the truth" on HT.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200901280027

And I agree that long term spending is needed to ensure a future stable economy, but that long term spending money could have come out of future bills later this year rather than the economic stimulus that should be allocating money for now and not 2 years down the line.

Myth #1. CBO analysis found the majority of stimulus won't take effect for a year and a half

Several media outlets and figures, including The Washington Post, CNN White House correspondent Ed Henry, and NBC senior White House correspondent Chuck Todd, have falsely suggested that a partial CBO analysis of the economic recovery plan -- reported by the Associated Press on January 20 -- was in fact a full analysis of the bill and falsely suggested that in that analysis, the CBO found that, in the words of the Post, "the majority of the money in the Democratic plan would not get spent within the first year and a half." In fact, the CBO report the AP highlighted initially conducted only a partial analysis and therefore did not reach a conclusion with respect to "the majority of the money" in the bill. Office of Management and Budget director Peter Orszag -- who formerly headed the CBO -- stated in a January 22 letter that the analysis addressed only "a component of the economic recovery proposal" and "did not address the overall package." CBO Director Douglas W. Elmendorf also wrote in a January 26 blog post that the "preliminary estimate that has been widely cited addressed only the budgetary impacts of an earlier version of the provisions contained in Division A, at the request of the House Committee on Appropriations."

The CBO subsequently released its "Cost Estimate" of H.R. 1, an analysis of the entire recovery plan as introduced in the House of Representatives, and concluded that 64 percent of the package would be spent by the end of the fiscal year 2010: "Combining the spending and revenue effects of H.R. 1, CBO estimates that enacting the bill would increase federal budget deficits by $169 billion over the remaining months of fiscal year 2009, by $356 billion in 2010, by $174 billion in 2011, and by $816 billion over the 2009-2019 period."

I think the Republican plan would have been a lot better, inasmuch as it wouldn't have included social programs and all the pork the Democrats threw in that does not create jobs. That's total B*l&S_it! The thing that really gets me is the $5M to ACORN.

That is right. What you said about ACORN is B*l&S_it.

Myth #6. $4.19 billion of stimulus "would go to" ACORN

On January 27, the San Francisco Chronicle reported the false claim -- which the Chronicle attributed to the group Americans for Limited Government -- that $4.19 billion of the economic recovery plan "would go to the liberal housing activist group ACORN." Later the same day, nationally syndicated radio host Rush Limbaugh repeated the claim: "In the Obama stimulus package, $4.19 billion is going to ACORN. Obama's community organizing -- you -- would somebody tell me what the stimulus is in that?" Limbaugh continued: "Oh, it's not called 'ACORN,' it's called 'neighborhood stabilization programs.' Now, would somebody explain to me what in the name of Sam Hill ... $4.19 billion to a voter-fraud organization has to do with stimulus?"

In fact, the bill contains no language mentioning ACORN. The false claim is based on a misrepresentation of a provision that would appropriate $4,190,000,000 "for neighborhood stabilization activities related to emergency assistance for the redevelopment of abandoned and foreclosed homes as authorized under division B, title III of the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008." The provision requires that money will be distributed through competitive processes. It states that "not less than $3,440,000,000 shall be allocated by a competition" to "States, units of general local government, and nonprofit entities or consortia of nonprofit entities." It also provides that "up to $750,000,000 shall be awarded by competition to nonprofit entities or consortia of nonprofit entities to provide community stabilization assistance."

The Chronicle's report and Limbaugh's comments echo material released by House Minority Leader John Boehner's (R-OH) office. A January 26 "fast facts" release claimed of the stimulus bill: "The legislation could open billions of taxpayer dollars to left-wing groups like the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), which has been accused of voter fraud, is reportedly under federal investigation; and played a key role in the housing meltdown." A January 23 release to which the January 26 document links stated that "the Democrats' bill makes groups like ACORN eligible for a $4.19 billion pot of money for 'neighborhood stabilization activities.' "

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Unsettled Economy & The Bailout

It's fine to engage in debate regarding the merits of the just passed stimulus package. But it's just disgusting when some people cross the line and,.... well, judge this editorial cartoon in yesterday's New York Post for yourself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_167928.html

Sure, the NY Post editor-in-chief claims that Sean Delonas' cartoon "broadly mocks Washington's efforts to revive the economy." Nope, the image of the dead chimp wasn't specifically aimed at the President. Well, it's hard for a lot of folks to give this cartoonist the benefit of the doubt when you look at his past work which resorts to crude ethnic and gay/lesbian stereotypes.

http://gawker.com/5155855/ten-master...m-sean-delonas

[Bobinator]

Re: Nabobinator! Now that's gold!

Excellent Bob, you played the socialism card. Since you are opposed to socialism, then I expect that you will refuse Social Security, Medicare, public highways, public parks, public safety, the military, and etc. These are all social programs that benefit you, but since you are opposed to social programs, I expect you will refuse your share.

What you refuse to acknowledge is that every dollar thrown into the public trough creates jobs either directly or indirectly.

So when the $ runs out, then what? We'll find ourselves in a smaller nest and a much deeper hole. Did you ever think beyond the immediate gratification syndrome?

It's like injecting heroin- immediate high, but tremendous crash that makes you only desperate for more.

[Bobinator]

Re: Nabobinator! Now that's gold!

I wish you would have been on board with that philosophy when W dumped $1 trillion into Iraq!



Huh? again! The Republicans want to increase taxes? Wow, this is news! How do tax increases, in and of themselves, stimulate the economy? How does increasing taxes expose crooks?

You're mixing two separate issues. For one, if we don't protect ourselves, we won't have an economy to save. In fact, we won't be alive to save anything.

My goof. I meant Tax cuts. I think most of us were intelligent enough to figure that out on their own.

[Bobinator]

Re: Unsettled Economy & The Bailout

I dunno about anyone else but I'm willing to give Obama more time to sink or swim. He's only been in office...what...30 days? How can anyone make a judgement based on so little time?

We can, by actually paying attention to his blank record of accomplishment, his association with Marxists and terrorists, and his sympathies towards socialist policy. His preaching change while getting Clinton era people to serve in his cabinet and enlisting former CEO's who started and profited from this economic mess as his advisors. Who held closed door meetings, excluding Republicans, on this so-called stimulus bill after pledging on the campaign trail to be bi-partisan. Then he specifically meets with 3 Republican traitors to vote for this bill behind closed doors, while excluding everyone else. Not only that, this 1,500 page bill of theft was presented to the Republicans only a few days before Congress voted on it. Now we can thank him for designating $5M to ACORN, which demographically targeted people most likely to vote democrat and is riddled with voter fraud practices still under investigation.

Judge a politician by what he does, not what he says.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Nabobinator! Now that's gold!

To put things in perspective: If we took the $800 billion+ dollars that Obama pushed for in this stimulus and just divided it equally among EVERY tax paying citizen, we'd all get over $2500. And that's if you include children and the rich. Honestly speaking I'd rather have $2500 in my pocket to go out and spend (thus injecting it back into the economy) than have the stimulus that was passed.

Perhaps you would spend it and circulate it back into the economy. But you would probably be in the minority, judging by what happened with the tax rebate from last year. The majority of Americans used it to pay down some of their hefty debt, or socked it away into savings; they didn't inject it back into the economy, as the Bush administration hoped. Considering the worse state of the economy today, that debt payment/savings behavior is even more likely now.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Unsettled Economy & The Bailout

... his association with Marxists and terrorists ... Now we can thank him for designating $5M to ACORN ...

How interesting it must be to go through life completely ignoring facts. Item 1 is a leftover scrap fallacy from the election campaign of 2008, item 2 was disproven earlier in this thread.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Unsettled Economy & The Bailout

Getting rid of the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy in the military ...

Sorry for one more response, but I just caught this one. At the risk of steering this thread WAY off course, I'd love to know what concerns you have with gays in the armed forces. If I start a thread with that question, would you respond there, Mr. B?

Here is your chance to explain your position.

[matapule]

Re: Nabobinator! Now that's gold!

You're mixing two separate issues. For one, if we don't protect ourselves, we won't have an economy to save. In fact, we won't be alive to save anything.

What are we protecting ourselves from in Iraq? No WMD's were found there.

My goof. I meant Tax cuts. I think most of us were intelligent enough to figure that out on their own.

I'm not very intelligent. I'm downright 'toopid, so you have to dumb it down for me by posting exactly what you mean. Right now my IQ is about equal to the dollar amount in my 401K!

The more I read your posts, the more confuseder I get, but hey, if you believe everything Lush Rimbarf tells you, I'm beginning to understand.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Nabobinator! Now that's gold!

judging by what happened with the tax rebate from last year. The majority of Americans used it to pay down some of their hefty debt, or socked it away into savings; they didn't inject it back into the economy, as the Bush administration hoped.

Is that a bad thing? The money went to the banks who now have more to loan. And by reducing debt, it help stabilize the economy. The whole thing started falling apart from some people who got into too much debt.

[timkona]

Re: Unsettled Economy & The Bailout

Mata seems to think there were no WMD's in Iraq

Try here... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

It is one of my favorite lies.