The Obama Years

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The Obama Years

And let's talk about pronounciation. It's LIMBAUGH not Limbarf. It's okay to call someone a bad person, but to resort to name-calling is hitting below the belt. If Rush Limbaugh and the others are aiming low in their attacks at a Liberal, do you counter by doing the same? It only shows you are just as bad as he is. You are better than that, anything less shows your true colors.

I'm a Republican but you don't see me calling Obama sick names or Peloski for that matter. Rush may, but you shouldn't as I don't.

If you're talking about the House Speaker, it's Nancy PELOSI, not Peloski. Are you trying to turn her into a Pole?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: The Obama Years

If you're talking about the House Speaker, it's Nancy PELOSI, not Peloski. Are you trying to turn her into a Pole?

Darn you're right! Sorry that was a major error on my part. Thanks for the correction FM. It is Pelosi.

[Vanguard]

Re: The Obama Years

If you're talking about the House Speaker, it's Nancy PELOSI, not Peloski. Are you trying to turn her into a Pole?

I nominate Chief Medical Officer Dr. Katherine Pulaski for House Speaker AND Surgeon General.

[matapule]

Re: The Obama Years

If Medicaid can't fill in the gaps and save millions of Americans who slipped through the cracks, why would I trust a private industry that has thrown millions of dollars at our politicians?

Because it is required by law.

Well, seeing as how the above perspective is coming from someone who is covered by Medicare and has been eligible for the national health care plan of Mexico,

I would like everyone in the US to have the option to be covered by a program similar to Medicare. Yes, I feel very fortunate to be covered by Medicare and I feel grateful and thankful. But Medicare is an option for me. I can always go out and get private insurance if I wish.

I don't know of any "national health care plan" available to me in Mexico, Mexican or American.

especially where that 'too stupid' comment is concerned, which appears to attempt to draw a conspicuous parallel to uninsured Americans.

Well then let me draw another parallel. Everyone who drives a car is mandated to have auto insurance. There are penalties if you don't have it.

Frankly, I see you as about as much in touch and empathetic concerning this matter as the people of the senate and congress who have their own superior, taxpayer funded, government health plans.

Yes, I feel fortunate. I wish everyone had a similar plan available to them as an affordable option.

Apparently you, and the vast majority of politicians, and the other rank and file proponents of this bill have forgotten what it truly means to make too little to afford real health insurance, make too much to qualify for medicaid, and be too young to qualify for Medicare. That is a serious danger facing the uninsured in this matter.

Vanguard, that statement is an unfair shot. I expect better from you. The fact is, we could not afford health insurance for my uaifi for the last two years. That has all changed as of today, Jan. 1. See related post on the Medicare thread. I now what it is like to have to scrimp.

Are you still in Mexico, or have you returned to the USA recently?

Yes, we are back in SoCal to celebrate the holidays with the ongo ta'ahine. Freezing my okole off to tell the truth. We return about every 6 months or so for doctor visits. We don't qualify for Medicare or any health plan while living in Mexico.

You still haven't told me what you mean by "burdened."

Blessed be in the New Year, Vanguard.

[matapule]

Re: The Obama Years

Okay let me say it again...Obama is a smooth talker. Now let me explain it to you. He can articulate, he speaks, people listen. He doesn't speak defensively. He accepts blame. Smooth!

Well then great! it's abut time we had a smooth talker for President. The last four Presidents didn't accept blame for their actions.

It's LIMBAUGH not Limbarf.

Odd! I was listening to his radio program last week, before he went to Hawaii, and he calls himself "L. Rushbaugh." Very odd.

you don't see me calling Obama sick names or Peloski for that matter.

Good one Craig, that brought a smile to my face!

Blessed be and all the best to you in the New Year, CraigW.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: The Obama Years

It's El Rushbo. Translates to... ah, I'll be nice. It's too nice a morning to get all rushed up.

[Vanguard]

Re: The Obama Years

Because it is required by law.

Forgive me if I don't share in your unwavering faith that corporations will follow the law or that the judiciary will be well equipped to deal with infractions made. This bill is approximately 2,000 pages. Even if someone can testify that they've read the entire thing, who can testify that they understand every last paragraph of this approximately 2,000 page document?

Can you honestly say that you believe that there will be no loopholes exploitable by the insurance industry that a powerless judiciary will only be able to say "Take it up with your legislators"?

I would like everyone in the US to have the option to be covered by a program similar to Medicare. Yes, I feel very fortunate to be covered by Medicare and I feel grateful and thankful. But Medicare is an option for me.

But not mandated.

I can always go out and get private insurance if I wish.

Then why don't you?

I don't know of any "national health care plan" available to me in Mexico, Mexican or American.

If you wish to play semantics, fine. "National health care program". In Mexico. Said you, approximately three and one half months ago.

I don't know about every country, but Mexico does have a social security system for the elderly who do contribute through payroll taxes. But the Mexican system is not nearly as extravagant as the US system.

To get back on topic, Mexico does have a national health care program, available to anyone, including me who is not a citizen and technically an "illegal alien" residing here (I am working on getting my legal residency). Mexico also has private insurance that competes profitably with the national program.

I wonder why the H1N1 flu has been more severe in the US than Mexico and why more people in the US have died from it (percentage-wise and actual numbers-wise) than Mexico.

Well then let me draw another parallel. Everyone who drives a car is mandated to have auto insurance. There are penalties if you don't have it.

Automobile ownership and drivership are not mandated. Everybody requires a body to live.

Yes, I feel fortunate. I wish everyone had a similar plan available to them as an affordable option.

Wishing is good. I'm sure everyone from Congressmen Alan Grayson and Dennis Kucinich to Senator John McCain and GOP leader Michael Steele share in your wishes. Where they inevitably deviate however, is how steadfast they are to work on making those wishes a fair and unexploitable reality. I consider the democrats and democrats' allies lack of fight for the public option, their enabling of republican opponents, and their collusion with the private insurance companies to be every bit as wrong as the Republicans' obstructionism.

Vanguard, that statement is an unfair shot. I expect better from you. The fact is, we could not afford health insurance for my uaifi for the last two years. That has all changed as of today, Jan. 1. See related post on the Medicare thread. I now what it is like to have to scrimp.

I thought your characterization of the uninsured in America as being reckless motorcycle riders was most unfair and devoid of any empathy, and you were one of the very last people that I would even entertain the possibility of reading that from. You also appear to be completely oblivious to the point of callous disregard regarding the Financial Crisis we have all been facing. Had I never met you before this conversations, I might have expected you to next say that all those uninsureds need to do is pick themselves up by their bootstraps and stop burdening real hard working Americans. I certainly never expected that from you. But 2009 has been full of surprises.

Yes, we are back in SoCal to celebrate the holidays with the ongo ta'ahine. Freezing my okole off to tell the truth. We return about every 6 months or so for doctor visits. We don't qualify for Medicare or any health plan while living in Mexico.

You still haven't told me what you mean by "burdened."

we are currently in the midst of something that is popularly named the "Financial Crisis of 2007–2010". It is widely recognized as the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression.

Many jobs have been lost. Investments, including personal home ownership have gone sour. Prices of most of every kind of product have increased significantly, which was catalyzed by the skyrocketing oil prices we experienced in 2008.

State and local governments are becoming insolvent, the most notable of which being the State of California. In many situations, taxes are being raised to make up for lost tax revenue due to the financial crisis. Combine that with increased interest rates mortgage holders are being hit with. Like reduced insurance rates are being promised for lower income people, so have rate adjustments for homeowners. Very few have been able to get relief in this manner.

I had thought you might have heard about this in the news or failing that, word of mouth, but apparently I am mistaken in that regard.

Some have found relief by leaving the USA for jobs and a reduced cost of living, but this is not a realistic solution for everybody who needs help.

Rising prices, lost jobs, rising taxes, and diminished value of investments. The wealthy forgo some private jet trips. The poor have programs to fall back on.

Yes, the middle class are taking the brunt of this. I consider that "burdened", don't you?

Blessed be in the New Year, Vanguard.

Same to you.

[matapule]

Re: The Obama Years

Can you honestly say that you believe that there will be no loopholes exploitable by the insurance industry that a powerless judiciary will only be able to say "Take it up with your legislators"?

No, I can dishonestly say this will not happen, but I am not accustomed to being dishonest.

Then why don't you?

Because Vanguard I can't afford a Cadillac private health care plan. Half a pie is better than no pie.

If you wish to play semantics, fine. "National health care program". In Mexico. Said you, approximately three and one half months ago.

My bad for not explaining properly. If I get sick in Mexico, I can go to the government hospital for care. However, there is no codified Mexican health care plan available to me through the Mexican govenement. It is only available to Mexican nationals.

Automobile ownership and drivership are not mandated. Everybody requires a body to live.

And that is exactly why reasonable health care should be available and mandated for everyone.

I consider the democrats and democrats' allies lack of fight for the public option, their enabling of republican opponents, and their collusion with the private insurance companies to be every bit as wrong as the Republicans' obstructionism.

I agree

I thought your characterization of the uninsured in America as being reckless motorcycle riders was most unfair and devoid of any empathy,

Nah, I don't take it back. Anyone who rides a motorcycle or bicycle without a helmet is stupid.

You also appear to be completely oblivious to the point of callous disregard regarding the Financial Crisis we have all been facing.

Bwaaaaaahaahaa ha! No comment!

I might have expected you to next say that all those uninsureds need to do is pick themselves up by their bootstraps and stop burdening real hard working Americans.

Your interpretations of me are off 180 deg. It is the Tongan way to help those in the community who are less fortunate. I am willing to have my taxes raised if it will help someone who is less fortunate. I am NOT willing to have my taxes raised to fight an unjust war in Afghanistan!

Many jobs have been lost.

Yep, some of my family members.

Investments, including personal home ownership have gone sour.

Don't remind me. I have had to go back to work to make ends meet......and enjoying it!

Prices of most of every kind of product have increased significantly,

Not according to the CPI. I didn't get any COLA increase in my SocSec because of a stagnant CPI.

I had thought you might have heard about this in the news or failing that, word of mouth, but apparently I am mistaken in that regard.

I don't know how old you are, but this cycle has happened to me several times during my lifetime, the last one being around 1990 (that would be the Bush 1 years just for reference) which by most indicators was worse than what we are experiencing today. I survived that one, and I will survive this one.....with a good, positive attitude.

Some have found relief by leaving the USA for jobs and a reduced cost of living, but this is not a realistic solution for everybody who needs help.

It helps to be creative!

Rising prices, lost jobs, rising taxes, and diminished value of investments. The wealthy forgo some private jet trips. The poor have programs to fall back on.

Yes, the middle class are taking the brunt of this. I consider that "burdened", don't you?

I don't know, maybe I can be criticized for having a squewed view of the world, but I think the middle class in the USA is relatively privileged. Taking everything into account, I don't think the middle class in the USA is "burdened." I am grateful everyday for the priveleges and freedoms I enjoy. Everyday is "Thanksgiving Day" for me. We live in America, grant yourself permission to enjoy what you do have.

Be Blessed one and all.

[Vanguard]

Re: The Obama Years

I believe you're an elderly man who is on Medicare who currently lives in Mexico to reduce his cost of living, and you believe the American middle class is not burdened and everyone without insurance and ineligible for existing public health benefits including but not limited to medicare and medicaid should be forced to purchase private health insurance under the penalty of a fine.

[matapule]

Re: The Obama Years

I believe you're an elderly man who is on Medicare who currently lives in Mexico to reduce his cost of living, and you believe the American middle class is not burdened and everyone without insurance and ineligible for existing public health benefits including but not limited to medicare and medicaid should be forced to purchase private health insurance under the penalty of a fine.

...even if that means I have to pay higher taxes to assist them with affordable health insurance.

Now we're on the same page! with the exception of "elderly man", should be elderly matapule (wink, wink).

Oh yeah, and wear your helmet when on the cycled conveyance of your choice.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The Obama Years

I am willing to have my taxes raised if it will help someone who is less fortunate.

Hidden in the middle of the discussion is this statement. This sums up much of what drives matapule's attitudes, I suspect, and I am in full agreement with him on this point.

I believe there are many others who do - and many who do not. That is the biggest divide in today's America, one manipulated constantly by leaders of ALL political parties, and even more so by the ranters of certain media outlets.

I am far from wealthy. I have learned frugality in recent years, after getting myself out from under tens of thousands of dollars in debt, caused by reckless disregard for sensible budgeting on my part, combined with occasional unemployment, underemployment, and a choice of careers that pay poorly, yet give great satisfaction. I am facing the possibility of unemployment yet again, for the third time in as many years.

Yet I STILL believe that it is my responsibility as a member of humanity to assist others - to contribute to charitable organizations, to assist friends, family and community members who are suffering, and to be willing to pay taxes to help total strangers - but as matapule notes, I want a say in what my governments do with those taxes.

[surlygirly]

Re: The Obama Years

Forgive me for inserting myself in the middle of a discussion. I would just like to note that I would love to have decent insurance, private or from my husband's employer. For the last few years, it's been an issue of having either NO insurance or very, very crappy insurance- $6000k deductible we had to meet before anything was covered. Luckily, I had to have surgery and that met our ded. but on the other hand, really? We don't just have that lying around. And after that, nothing much was covered anyway! Private insurance is impossible for us to get because of the medications I have to be on. I worked with an agent and we couldn't find one that would pick us up solely because of one of those medications. But I have to have it. And we have to shell out $400/month for it. And that's just one of them! If we could get on private insurance, we would!!

We don't qualify for low-income anything or any kind of assistance, and I wouldn't really feel right about taking it from someone else who needs it. So we're left with spending around $1000 a month and that's if no one gets sick. That just makes me feel ill when we need to be saving that- and I keep seeing commericals for $4 Rx's.

[matapule]

Re: The Obama Years

We don't qualify for low-income anything or any kind of assistance, and I wouldn't really feel right about taking it from someone else who needs it. So we're left with spending around $1000 a month and that's if no one gets sick.

Hold on SG, help is on the way. It is not perfect but it will help.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The Obama Years

Hold on SG, help is on the way. It is not perfect but it will help.

"Not perfect" could be the understatement of the year, and we're only into the first day!

I think this article does an excellent job in exposing just how inadequate the Senate's health care reform is. And indeed, the biggest help is not provided to the consumer, but to the insurance companies.

The health bill’s few remaining supporters argue that, despite its rampant giveaways to giant industries that already make more money than they know what to do with, it’s worth passing anyway because it has provisions in it that supposedly curb a few of the most blatant abuses of health insurance companies. What we’re supposed to be getting in return for the over $1 trillion poured down the mouths of the health-insurance vampires is a ban on their denying coverage for people with “pre-existing conditions” (meaning if you actually need coverage, you often can’t get it) or setting lifetime caps on a policy so that once you run out of the money the insurance company has set aside for you, you’re S.O.L.

[TuNnL]

Re: The Obama Years

"Not perfect" could be the understatement of the year ... this article does an excellent job in exposing just how inadequate the Senate's health care reform is. And indeed, the biggest help is not provided to the consumer, but to the insurance companies.

...not to mention what it took to get there.