The Iraq War - Chapter 2

[Karen]

Re: The Iraq War

Kalihi Boy, I have dear friends right outside of Baghdad right now, and in Kirkuk. They weren't DRAFTED to this war, and they support it. Your cousins enlisted too, they aren't being forced to go there. I bet when they finally get there, they will be proud of what they are doing there, because once there, they will not be going by what the danged media claims, but will live amongst the grateful Iraqis, and see for themselves.

As I said, this Iraq war may be a win-win situation, but it is not and it never was "just about oil." Therefore, your diatribe to me falls on deaf ears.

Perhaps people that think like you should be forced to live without all of the things oil provides for you, directly and peripherally. You'd then see why bin laden is encouraging people to bomb the oil facilities of his own people, hoping to eventually limit the supply to the west.

You know the 350 Million, so far, we are giving to help the horrible tsunami victims? How much of that do you think was produced without ANY aid from oil, or natural gas? If the oil supply is ever successfully choked off to us. the whole bloody world WILL suffer because we do so much for so many. What is good for the U.S. is good for the world, and this not an exaggeration.

Your post here to me lost ALL credibility with THIS absurd line from you, which of course is not based in any reality of where I am coming from. You desperately try to discredit me with garbage like this, and guess you can't see you make yourself look bad, not me. You said "there are actually people out there who stake more pride in oil than they do human life."

To the back of the class for you.

[kimo55]

Re: The Iraq War

I mean even Hitler had supporters.

KalihiBoy

Uh oh. Invoking hitler. you know da rules.
invalidated arguement when this happens.
diminished to zero.

[Kalihiboy]

Re: The Iraq War

Uh oh. Invoking hitler. you know da rules.
invalidated arguement when this happens.
diminished to zero.

Following someone blindly like Karen does for this war and this President yes is akin to following Hitler as far as I'm concerned. You know Hitler is a part of history just like this war is and Bush is, though I wish none of them ever existed.

No Karen I know several soldiers, one of my childhood friends has been in Iraq on and off since the invasion and he has no idea why we are there.

Our cousins, one signed up for the National Guard, they didnt sign up to fight in a war. The National Guard I thought sole purpose was to guard, maintain and protect our borders within the United States. So great since Bush has depleted these sources what will we do here if a natural disaster or terrorist attack would occur since our military is off doing other things.

I'm sorry if you dont like my comments as they say the truth hurts. You continue on and on about oil and how important it is, you defend it moreso than anyone I have ever known of.

I respect you for defending what you believe in, though I really cant understand what it is that you believe. The Hitler comment I used earlier I explained I hope better, I didnt mean to imply you were like him at all, if you thought I did, I apologize. Its just that I think many people have a tendency to follow things to the point in which they are oblivious or blind to the realities of the situation. This could be religious, political, social things, you name it.

If you folks believe in this war so strongly why dont you all volunteer to work over there, they need all the help they can get or go out and tell all your friends and family members to have their children go and volunteer for the military.

You know its one thing to be proud of your country and be patriotic but when it comes to aarogance the United States is truly the world leader.

KalihiBoy

[kimo55]

Re: The Iraq War

I'm sorry if you dont like my comments as they say the truth hurts. KalihiBoy

Uh oh!
employing the holier than thou non-phrase; " the truth hurts. "
Invoking a generic cliche.
Another major infraction.
points lost!
Off island voted!

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War

Happy New year, Miulang,

of course if the troops had their druthers, they'd be safely home! they would prefer that the job they trained for is never needed, but they are not cursing the war itself, and they report that the majority of Iraqis bless their presence there. THIS matters hugely, as it proves we did a good thing in unseating saddam, and in killing his two freak, maniacal sons.

Happy New Year to you, too, from San Francisco, Karen. You're right, the "majority" of Iraqis are glad that we're there because the majority of Iraqis happen to be Shiites, who will finally get represented in a puppet government that before prevented them from participating in the past. But at the same time, the Sunnis will be disenfranchised (as in the civilians in Fallujah, Ramadi, etc...the "Sunni Triangle" and the Kurds). So take your "majority" claim advisedly. If you ask the Sunnis and Kurds if they're glad we're bombing out of their homes and killing their families, then my guess is the answer would be "no thanks, we don't need you."

Miulang

[kimo55]

Re: The Iraq War

Happy New Year to you, too, from San Francisco, Karen.

Miulang

happy hippie merry mary, Miulang, up there in San Fran! How is it?
Been to the tonga room yet?
a row haha!

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

As I said, you can't prove otherwise cuz what I posted is so, and that is that if the flow of oil to us is crippled, YOU will suffer with the rest of us, and what is good for our country is good for the world, as we do for the whole darn world. Hurt us and many more than us are hurt.

GOOD has been accomplished in Iraq, and if it was also, simultaneously to keep madman saddam from choking our oil supply, GOOD! killed more than one bird with our proverbial stones.

Karen, I may suffer, but I hope you suffer more if you insist on consuming scarce resources as if it can just be had by buying it (or stealing it) from somewhere else. You admit we are gluttonous and you see no reason for Americans to conserve scarce resources??? Isn't that a little selfish? Global citizens worry not only about the land around them but also what kind of impact they are having on everyone else everywhere else, as in, taking care of the environment (the Native Americans and Hawai'ians got that part right...if we don't take care of our earth, it will pay us back in spades, as in the SE Asia tsunamis).

As I said before, you can believe what you want to believe and don't try to convince any of us "bleeding heart" moderates that you are right. We'll see what happens in 2 years at the polls.

Eh Kimo, had moa rain down SF den up hea in Seattle! Ho da soaked we got! Neva have time foa go to da Tonga Room; in fact, I no tink da place still dere because dey wen remodel da Fairmont a couple of years ago. I wen go wave at da Fairmont (jess foa you ) as we went past on da cable car, though! And I tink I pau eating dim sum little while, too. Da stuff stay coming out of my ears! We wen grind dim sum yesterday foa lunch and today foa lunch again. Onolicious!

Miulang

BTW: On the flight back to Seattle this evening, there were 2 soldiers on a 2-week R&R from Iraq. We on the plane gave them a hearty round of applause to thank them. THIS is one way us moderates can support our troops. The DoD can't even thank them by paying for their plane fare. These guys paid for their own way home.

[kimo55]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

The DoD can't even thank them by paying for their plane fare. These guys paid for their own way home.

Damn dat DoD!

[Kalihiboy]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

BTW: On the flight back to Seattle this evening, there were 2 soldiers on a 2-week R&R from Iraq. We on the plane gave them a hearty round of applause to thank them. THIS is one way us moderates can support our troops. The DoD can't even thank them by paying for their plane fare. These guys paid for their own way home.

He is right our cousins had to pay their way home as National Guard Reservists who have been called up. At least their apartments are paid for while they are off island for the next 18 months or so.

Thanks for nothing Bush and Rumsfeld.

KalihiBoy

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

Those of us who publicly question the rationale for our involvement in Iraq must also realize that those who blindly trust our country's leadership will immediately try to silence us. They for some reason cannot understand that to support our troops and not agree with the reason why they are there or the leaders who issue the policies is not treasonous; it is in fact just as patriotic as those (like Karen) who think we are not making a mistake in the Middle East.

Miulang

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle7586.htm

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

Here's an interesting little tidbit about the suicide bomber who killed 22 people in the US base last month. Note that he wasn't even Iraqi, he was a SAUDI med student who had dressed up in an Iraqi military uniform. If foreign insurgents are behind most of the attacks against us, why the hell are we killing innocent Iraqi civilians?

Miulang

This is from the Scotsman (Scotland):

12:19pm (UK)
Saudi Student Was Mess Tent Suicide Bomber

"PA"


The suicide bomber who killed 22 people when he blew himself up in a US army mess tent the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, was a Saudi medical student, an Arab newspaper reported today.

Saudi-owned Asharq Al-Awsat identified him as 20-year-old Ahmed Said Ahmed al-Ghamdi, citing friends of the man’s father.

The friends said members of an Iraqi resistance group contacted al-Ghamdi’s father to tell him his son was the suicide bomber who carried out the December 21 attack, the deadliest on an American installation in Iraq.

US officials have said their investigation indicates the bomber was dressed in an Iraqi military uniform – but was not an Iraqi soldier – when he slipped into a mess tent packed with soldiers eating lunch in northern Iraq.

The father refused to discuss the suicide bombing, but told the newspaper his son had gone to Iraq to fight the Americans and had died there.

The paper did not name the Iraqi resistance group. But Ansar al-Sunnah, a radical Islamic Iraqi group that has been active in northern Iraq, claimed responsibility for the mess tent attack.

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

According to the national intelligence chief of Iraq, General Mohamed Abdullah Shahwani, there are more than 200,000 subversives and sympathizers in Iraq, which is more than the number of troops we have on the ground there. Our own military intelligence estimates put that number more around 5,000 to 20,000.

I would tend to believe the numbers being given by the Iraqis, which is another reason why we appear to be foundering so badly.

This excerpt from the AFP news outlet:

"I believe General Shahwani's estimation, given that he is referring predominantly to active sympathizers and supporters and to part-time as well as full-time active insurgents, may not be completely out of the ballpark," said defense analyst Bruce Hoffman who served as an advisor to the US occupation in Iraq and now works for US-based think-tank RAND Corporation.

Compared to the coalition's figure, he said: "General Shahwani's -- however possibly high it may be, might well give a more accurate picture of the situation."

Anthony Cordesman, an Iraq analyst with the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, put Shahwani's estimates on an equal footing with the American's.

"The Iraqi figures do... recognize the reality that the insurgency in Iraq has broad support in Sunni areas while the US figures down play this to the point of denial."

Shahwani said the resistance enjoys wide backing in the provinces of Baghdad, Babel, Salahuddin, Diyala, Nineveh and Tamim, homes to Sunni Arabs who fear they will lose influence after the elections.

Insurgents have gained strength through Iraq's tight-knit tribal bonds and links to the old 400,000-strong Iraqi army, dissolved by the US occupation in May 2003 two months after the US-led invasion, he said.

"People are fed up after two years, without improvement. People are fed up with no security, no electricity, people feel they have to do something. The army was hundreds of thousands. You'd expect some veterans would join with their relatives, each one has sons and brothers."

The rebels have turned city neighborhoods and small towns around central Iraq into virtual no-go zones despite successful US military efforts to reclaim former enclaves like Samarra and Fallujah, he said.

"What are you going to call the situation here (in Baghdad) when 20 to 30 men can move around with weapons and no one can get them in Adhamiyah, Dura and Ghazaliya," he said, naming neighborhoods in the capital.

The spy chief also questioned the success of the November campaign to retake Fallujah, which US forces have hailed as a major victory against the resistance.

"What we have now is an empty city almost destroyed... and most of the insurgents are free. They have gone either to Mosul or to Baghdad or other areas."

Shahwani pointed to a resurgent Baath party as the key to the insurgency's might. The Baath has split into three factions, with the deadliest being the branch still paying allegiance to jailed dictator Saddam Hussein, he said.

Shahwani said the core Baath fighting strength was more than 20,000.

Operating out of Syria, Saddam's half-brother Sabawi Ibrahim al-Hassan and former aide Mohamed Yunis al-Ahmed are providing funding and tapping their connections to old army divisions, particularily in Mosul, Samarra, Baquba, Kirkuk and Tikrit.

Saddam's henchman, Izzat Ibrahim al-Duri, still on the lam in Iraq, is also involved, he said.

Another two factions, which have broken from Saddam, are also around, but have yet to mount any attacks. The Baath are complemented by Islamist factions ranging from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's al-Qaeda affiliate to Ansar al-Sunna and Ansar al-Islam.

Asked if the insurgents were winning, Shahwani answered: "I would say they aren't losing."

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle7603.htm

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War

...and they report that the majority of Iraqis bless their presence there. THIS matters hugely, as it proves we did a good thing in unseating saddam, and in killing his two freak, maniacal sons.

Karen, can you come up with numbers from a poll to refute a Gallup poll of Iraqis that shows that 80% of those polled want us out of Iraq asap after the January elections? I'll eat my words if you can document what you wrote with hard numbers and not just anecdotal hearsay from a few soldiers. Thanks.

"A Gallup poll taken last April found that 80 percent of Iraqis wanted the U.S. forces to withdraw immediately after the January election. Even Allawi has promised that, if elected, he'll begin negotiating a timetable for U.S. withdrawal...."

Miulang

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle7596.htm

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

The people who are running for public office in the new transitional goverment in Iraq are either super patriotic and really want to make a difference in their country's future...or they need to have their heads examined for that uber death wish they appear to have. Today, the governor of the Baghdad region was assassinated, along with 6 of his bodyguards.

This particular governor was known to be working closely with the coalition forces. And George Bush insists that the election will still be held on Jan. 30, come hell or high water.

Miulang

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

Unconfirmed reports coming out of the Middle East say that the terrorist head Abu Mus'ab al-Zarqawi, leader of the terrorist group Al-Tawhid Wa'al-Jihad, who was recently appointed the director of the Al-Qaeda organisation in Iraq has been captured in Baakuba.

If that's true, then someone is going to get $10 million in reward money and someone within the terrorist group will move up to become al-Zarqawi's replacement. What we don't seem to understand is that just because one of the leaders of this group has been removed from power, that will not lessen its fervor to kill anyone who is associated with the US. It just means that we will have to put another bounty up for someone else soon, if in fact the Kurds have arrested al-Zarqawi.

Miulang

http://www.tass.ru/eng/level2.html?N...9544&PageNum=0