The March to Socialism

[808shooter]

Re: The March to Socialism

Well said!
Yet, what is wrong with welfare?
The welfare of the population is a worthy concern, yet the problem is those who take unfair advantage: always taking, never giving.

I'll take the time to address your post. And try not to offend you brah.

Welfare for those who cannot help themselves, is a noble and worthy undertaking and philosophy. For a society to be prosperous enough to be able to afford a level of welfare, a balance must be maintained between capitalistic incentive and social wealth redistribution.

We cannot afford to reward the lazy or unmotivated.

Yet how do we measure our contribution?
In dollars? (Capitalism)
In social contributions? (Socialism)
In government service? (Imperialism)
In the general good? (Communism)
In what we put into the system? (Hmmmmm, fascisim?)
Out of the goodness of our hearts? (Love)
Cause God says so? (Oppressive religion)

In the case of this discussion, we're looking at society on a macro level, not an individual level. As long as there is balance and there is sufficient rewards to keep economic productivity and motivation high, we can afford to be generous at a societal level. Right now we are starting to lean too far to the left with these socialist agendas. Not saying I don't agree, just saying we can't afford these programs yet.

If we abandon those who have no means we have no heart.
If we do not practice love, we are not Christians.
If we abandon those in need, what can we expect when it's our turn?

yes exactly. we cannot abandon those who have no means. chruchill said "a societies worth is measured by how they treat it's least fortunate" we are in complete agreement here.

Perhaps the problem is not universal healthcare:

My Vietnam Veteran friend, living in Luxembourg because he distains the USA, recently had a triple bypass at the cost of the government. Free.
Luxembourg wages no wars, so they have little to no national debt.
They can take care of their own citizens because they are not trying to run the world.

What a surprise!

we all have choices to make. do we choose to give away free healthcare but let the rest of the world go to hell?

i think we learned from the romans when we choose not to let the barbarians at the gate grow stronger and stronger while we as a society become weak and soft with ever increasing entitlement.

i for one would choose to insure american hegemony in the world before turning inwards to focus on social welfare.

uncle ben once said, "with great power comes great responsibility." the quote was much cooler before spiderman went mainstream hollywood as i've always made mine marvel! nuff said!

[Bobinator]

Re: The March to Socialism

Group of 5,000 physicians file lawsuit against Obamacare- http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=961858

[Walkoff Balk]

Re: The March to Socialism

Group of 5,000 physicians file lawsuit against Obamacare- http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=961858

I thought doctors hate lawyers.

[matapule]

Re: The March to Socialism

Group of 5,000 physicians file lawsuit against Obamacare

5000 doctors are going to be redistributing income from themselves to lawyers to no avail.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: The March to Socialism

We cannot afford to reward the lazy or unmotivated.

Just like we were never able to afford jack prior to the costs of a total BS war...

[Bobinator]

Re: The March to Socialism

I thought doctors hate lawyers.

That shows you how bad the health care bill is.

[Kaonohi]

Re: The March to Socialism

Kaonohi,

Thanks. Guess you have a lot more consideration than the one posing the question. However, since this topic will derail this thread, and you had the decency to go looking for it, I'll send you a PM.

Oh wow, between privacy shields, personal health and other stuff, I'm not up to speed here. Funk, I'm dying! No sympathy, thanks, until after the fact (when nit don't matter), no questions. It may take years, enjoy what you can, do not hold back!

I've seen a lot of very thoughtful, extremely intelligent posts entered here, many with misguided targets, some very "clean" so to speak.

I think the ULTIMATE question, is: ho0w do we care for our fellow humans, at LEAST in our country, with a maximum of service and a minimum of expenditure.

If anyone thinks they do not deserve treatment, they can enter themselves on my EVIL list, and I'll take appropriate action.

There must be a system whereby we can provide care for the "have nots" at a level equivalent to health care, while we provide the "haves" with 'facial peels, tummy tucks' and the like.

How difficult is it to determine what is fair???????????????????

Come on, HT.... We are collectively smart. WE CAN DO THIS!!!!

So... DO IT!

KV~

[Bobinator]

Re: The March to Socialism

Oh wow, between privacy shields, personal health and other stuff, I'm not up to speed here. Funk, I'm dying! No sympathy, thanks, until after the fact (when nit don't matter), no questions. It may take years, enjoy what you can, do not hold back!

I've seen a lot of very thoughtful, extremely intelligent posts entered here, many with misguided targets, some very "clean" so to speak.

I think the ULTIMATE question, is: ho0w do we care for our fellow humans, at LEAST in our country, with a maximum of service and a minimum of expenditure.

If anyone thinks they do not deserve treatment, they can enter themselves on my EVIL list, and I'll take appropriate action.

There must be a system whereby we can provide care for the "have nots" at a level equivalent to health care, while we provide the "haves" with 'facial peels, tummy tucks' and the like.

How difficult is it to determine what is fair???????????????????

Come on, HT.... We are collectively smart. WE CAN DO THIS!!!!

So... DO IT!

KV~

Kaonohi,

I don't think it's our job, much less the government's, to enforce "fairness" and equality" as many interpret it. If you place a thousand people to live under the same environment and circumstances, you will inevitably end up with haves and have nots. That's the law of nature. The fairest thing we can do is to allow capitalism to work, notwithstanding regulations that prevent abuse by either side (the haves and have-nots).

If you can accept that there will always be the rich, the middle-class and the poor, no matter what the circumstances are, the best solution is to minimize government control, and allow the free market to do its thing. People need to be held more accountable to make their beds and sleep in it. The unfortunate thing is that the old days didn't have enough protective measures from preventing abuse from the rich. We do now, but it's going way overboard.

In the old days, handouts were provided by faith-based organizations, like the church. This pressured people to do whatever they could before receiving assistance and pressured them to live morally and upright in order to receive that assistance.

There is so much talk against the rich. But there's nothing wrong with working hard, exercising ingenuity and succeeding. That's what made our country great. And besides, I never got a job or health insurance from a poor person.

Part of the answer with respect to our health care woes is in Tort reform and opening doors to increased competition, particularly with respect to health care insurance companies. Allowing the free market to do its thing will create jobs and keep prices in check. Another answer is for people to pay attention to the issues and hold our politicians accountable to greed and corruption. But we don't.

[TuNnL]

Re: The March to Socialism

Group of 5,000 physicians file lawsuit against Obamacare- http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=961858

Hmmm... I wonder if members of Congress, who passed Obamacare, will now file a lawsuit against themselves?

WASHINGTON MEMO
Baffled by Health Plan? So Are Some Lawmakers

By ROBERT PEAR
Published: April 12, 2010

WASHINGTON — It is often said that the new health care law will affect almost every American in some way. And, perhaps fittingly if unintentionally, no one may be more affected than members of Congress themselves.

In a new report, the Congressional Research Service says the law may have significant unintended consequences for the “personal health insurance coverage” of senators, representatives and their staff members.

[Bobinator]

Re: The March to Socialism

Hmmm... I wonder if members of Congress, who passed Obamacare, will now file a lawsuit against themselves?

I wouldn't be at all surprised, as it was a partisan vote. All I know is that several States will file suit- http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2215987420100322

[Bobinator]

Re: The March to Socialism

Btw, this is why the Leftists in Washington needed a provision for a citizen's police force in the Health Care Bill(Law). It seems they're actually anticipating social unrest on a large scale, possibly by November. Guess the Tea Party Movement is more mainstream than "they" are willing to admit.

http://www.examiner.com/x-37620-Cons...-Nov-elections

[808shooter]

Re: The March to Socialism

Btw, this is why the Leftists in Washington needed a provision for a citizen's police force in the Health Care Bill(Law). It seems they're actually anticipating social unrest on a large scale, possibly by November. Guess the Tea Party Movement is more mainstream than "they" are willing to admit.

http://www.examiner.com/x-37620-Cons...-Nov-elections

They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack.

i'm not a tinfoilhatter but WTF???

[Random]

Re: The March to Socialism

Wow! I want to know what kind of crowd control techniques they'll employ.

Matapule, please sponsor me into RRC or CMRF! I want a standard-issue crowd-controlling baton!

[Bobinator]

Re: The March to Socialism

They'll use military grade sound blasters to disperse crowds, like they did during the peaceful protests against the G-20 this year in Pittsburgh, PA. It was caught on video. You can listen from around 1:30 seconds into the clip what this guy, Jason Berma, is reporting live on site-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjFqklV6j3w

[TuNnL]

Obama Admits Lying

Hmmm... I wonder if members of Congress, who passed Obamacare, will now file a lawsuit against themselves?

WASHINGTON MEMO
Baffled by Health Plan? So Are Some Lawmakers

By ROBERT PEAR
Published: April 12, 2010

WASHINGTON — It is often said that the new health care law will affect almost every American in some way. And, perhaps fittingly if unintentionally, no one may be more affected than members of Congress themselves.

I wouldn't be at all surprised, as it was a partisan vote. All I know is that several States will file suit- http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2215987420100322

20 states have done so, so far. And the Obama administration, under pressure, has now admitted that they lied — the health care bill IS actually a new tax:

Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

By ROBERT PEAR
Published: July 16, 2010

WASHINGTON — When Congress required most Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.”

And that power, they say, is even more sweeping than the federal power to regulate interstate commerce.