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America's War on the Poor

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  • America's War on the Poor

    I know someone in Fresno, CA who is in their late 70's, mentally handicaped, and lives on $700 per month State Disability Income plus a few extra dollars from friends and family - their sole income. They cannot afford a car. The City of Fresno was providing free bus transportation for years for those people who met certain criteria. This service has just been eliminated.

    Obama, Jerry Brown, Rethugs, Baggers, and the rest of conservative America are cutting the budget for necessary services on the backs of the most vulnerable, the poor, just so those wealthy Americans who make over $250K per year won't have a three percent tax increase that would cost them $1,500 extra a year and so the rest of us won't have to pay a dime more in taxes. Time to buy that new Mercedes 500 for our personal transportation!

    Disgusting and shameful!
    Last edited by matapule; March 12, 2011, 05:31 AM. Reason: typo on the thread topic
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  • #2
    Re: America's War onn the Poor

    Well, don't expect an Egypt style uprising of the masses in the US until they take away people's TVs. No American Idol!?! Then you'll see the angry town folk out in force to protect whats important and correct injustices, thats The American Way.
    https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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    • #3
      Re: America's War onn the Poor

      I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Is this a single person or a couple? In any case, people eke out a living one way or another, with government support or not, mental deficiency or not, free bus pass or not, until they die. Why should the poor have their lives eased or aided by the government, other than in the same ways the lives of all citizens are eased or aided by the government? Equal protection (and responsibility) under the law is the ideal, not special protection for some above and beyond the rest. Government has no business in charity. TANSTAAFL!
      Last edited by salmoned; March 12, 2011, 10:13 PM.
      May I always be found beneath your contempt.

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      • #4
        Re: America's War onn the Poor

        Last I remember of the really poor, they were up and down Kalakaua asking for something, anything, something BETTER than nothing. . .

        I am sure that Auntie Purple can chime in with something far more meaningful then I can offer, but I do know that the poor are people too, and because we are a civil, modern society, homeless/poor people shouldn't be shunned.

        I am not for the workers slave, the rich get more mentality, and I am not all for free govt hand outs, but there can be a happy medium. . .where it is, I am not sure.
        flickr

        An email from God:
        To: People of Earth
        From: God
        Date: 9/04/2007
        Subject: stop

        knock it off, all of you

        seriously, what the hell


        --
        God

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        • #5
          Re: America's War onn the Poor

          Originally posted by salmoned View Post
          Is this a single person or a couple?
          Single person. Never capable of being married or in a relationship.

          In any case, people eke out a living one way or another, with government support or not, mental deficiency or not, free bus pass or not, until they die. Why should the poor have their lives eased or aided by the government, other than in the same ways the lives of all citizens are eased or aided by the government?
          UNBELIEVABLE! You mean poor people should get a farm subsidy for NOT growing something like wealthy farmer State Senators in Wisconsin do?

          Look, the bus is going on that route anyway. There is going to be the cost of a bus driver anyway. The buses in Fresno are not crowded anyway, so no none is losing a seat. It costs the city nothing to give a qualified person a free ride. It is nothing more than an additional, unnecessary tax on the poor while continuing to give tax breaks to the wealthy.

          May you never find yourself in that position.
          Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

          People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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          • #6
            Re: America's War on the Poor

            Originally posted by matapule View Post
            May you never find yourself in that position.
            Truer words have never been spoken. May no one ever find himself in that or similar situation. In this discussion, anyone mention the word "bachi"?

            Thank you, Matapule.
            Born in Hawaii, too - Truss me

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            • #7
              Re: America's War onn the Poor

              Originally posted by salmoned View Post
              Equal protection (and responsibility) under the law is the ideal, not special protection for some above and beyond the rest.
              In the case of the best governmental intervention programs, they are not meant to be something "special" for a certain class of citizen; rather they are there to provide that equality that we all desire.

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              • #8
                Re: America's War on the Poor

                Cal used to have a system of state mental hospitals to care for people who just could not cope with life because of mental illness, defect, whatever. By the mid '60's the idea came into vogue to mainstream the patients who could handle it. Then comes Gov. Ronald Reagan qualified for the governorship by starring in "Bedtime For Bonzo", America's Greatest President, who says, lets mainstream them all. He closes most of the state mental hospitals, and voila--the homeless, utterly incapable of earning a living, sleeping and defacating in the streets, sometimes going bonkers and killing a tax payer, it doesn't happen much but it does happen. It sure saved the wealthy privileged elite a lot of money, and what a better society (note irony) it produced. Look at all the jobs the wealthy privileged elite created. In India, if at all.

                How very easy it is to become poor and needy. I knew a guy who had a good job, it gave him health insurance. He got a heart problem. His firm kept him on for a year while he couldn't work much, but finally had to let him go. His health insurance went away. He got evicted, moved into a car. Not quite homeless, he is barely hanging on. Half the personal bankruptcies in the USA are medical bankruptcies, either the victim doesn't have health insurance or the company just decides to not cover the problem--those executive yachts and polo ponies and estates in the Riviera aren't cheap, you know. Funny (ironic sense) that the people support this system. Its the best in the world. Just ask the people in Canada how glad they'd be go give up their national health care to live with all the uncertainty and paranoia we do here. A single infected cut, a single broken bone, and it could be off to the streets with you.

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                • #9
                  Re: America's War on the Poor

                  Don't I know it. I've fallen on some hard times recently and I don't want to go into detail because I don't want it to sound like a pity party, but I've never had anything but sympathy for the very poor. A couple of strokes of bad luck and wow, has my situation changed. And it's not like I was living all that comfortably before.

                  I grew up working poor and in a rural, poverty-stricken region, so I always knew we were just a paycheck away from being in the very same position as the clients my Dad dealt with at the public aid office. It's ironic too, because he's a conservative Republican, but dedicated his life and career to facilitating for the less fortunate when he could've made lots more money, as his degree was in accounting. He didn't want to; he wanted to work with those most in need and around our parts there aren't a bunch of non-profit agencies you can work for because you don't have access to the same things you would in a more populated environment. It's always been interesting listening to his take on issues of this nature.

                  Regarding care for the mentally ill, I have a sister who has lived in a care facility for about 20 years now and will need to for the rest of her life. She is, unfortunately a danger to herself and others. I honestly have no idea what we'd have done if she hadn't had her breakdown while she was in the Army. The VA, while not ideal by any stretch is far better than her being on the streets. I worry everyday something could happen and she wouldn't be housed anymore if drastic and draconian changes were made to an already failing system. Situations just like the one matapule described make me realize I might have good reason to worry.
                  Last edited by KeleiGrrrl; March 13, 2011, 05:20 PM.
                  Peace, Love, and BBQ!

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                  • #10
                    Re: America's War on the Poor

                    Originally posted by KeleiGrrrl View Post
                    I might have good reason to worry.
                    Yes, you do and Good Luck! The future is now here and its is filled with black-hearted, self-centered people. Matapule is discouraged and ashamed, but tomorrow will be better if we work at it.

                    Blessed Be your sister.
                    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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                    • #11
                      Re: America's War on the Poor

                      Thank you matapule, and blessings to you and yours as well.

                      The future is now here and its is filled with black-hearted, self-centered people. Matapule is discouraged and ashamed, but tomorrow will be better if we work at it.
                      I couldn't agree more and I wonder what's to become of all of us if everything continues in the direction it's been going in for well...you could make arguments for the last decade, for the last 2 decades, and on and on before that. I don't like feeling discouraged, but I think it's important to recognize reality at the same time. Otherwise, how can hope to change it? My big question is, what can we do? I'd like to see us wage a War on Poverty (which I know LBJ implemented, but it fell by the wayside). I'm just so discouraged.
                      Peace, Love, and BBQ!

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                      • #12
                        Re: America's War on the Poor

                        Just because 'rich' farmers get subsidies they oughtn't, doesn't mean the poor and/or mentally challenged should also get subsidies they oughtn't. All such government subsidies that benefit some designees over other nondesignees should be discontinued, else who can fairly arbitrate which are more necessary and which are less necessary, which support a healthy society/economy and which support a diseased society/economy, which are efficient and equitable and which are sources of corruption, fraud, waste and abuse? The government subsidizes charities by not taxing them - that is fully enough support of charitable work by the government. At least that subsidy allows the government to stand once removed from the inequitable benefits that some charities provide the public.

                        If you want free bus passes for the handicapped, start a charity to provide that service, don't ask or allow the government to do it because that practice violates the most fundamental principles upon which successful democratic governments can be based.

                        Separation of Church and State is no greater a mandate than separation of Charity and State.
                        Last edited by salmoned; March 13, 2011, 11:20 PM.
                        May I always be found beneath your contempt.

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                        • #13
                          Re: America's War on the Poor

                          The equality in our government amounts to alleged equality of opportunity, not actual equality, i.e., lack of discrimination, prejudice or unequal application of laws, as I understand it.
                          Although our various levels of government provide certain stopgap measures - social security, SSDI, welfare (mostly for children and mothers), it's mostly up to us to use whatever we have to make the most of what our government offers.
                          There's a million unfortunate Americans living below the poverty line, another million illegal aliens cross our borders to sign into our standard of living and our opportunities, which they perceive as better than their countries' opportunities.
                          Face it, to prosper here we need to wisely use our opportunities and have some good luck - or at least little bad luck - and we have to either work hard, or smart.
                          If there's a better place in the world (and some think there are) I'd like to know where and why.
                          Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                          ~ ~
                          Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                          Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                          Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

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                          • #14
                            Re: America's War on the Poor

                            and we have to either work hard, or smart.
                            Some people, actually quite a few, are incapable of working harder or smarter. They just aren't blessed. So what do we do? Take away their free bus pass and eliminate what little mobilty they had? Condemn them to a life of even greater misery?

                            If there's a better place in the world (and some think there are) I'd like to know where and why.
                            Define what "better" is.

                            Mexico has better more healthy food than the US. Mexico has a better public transportation sytem than the US. Mexico has better gun control laws than the US.

                            Tonga has a better social network than the US. Tonga has a better retirement system than the US. Tonga has a better foreign policy than the US.

                            Both Mexico and Tonga have a better cost of living than the US.

                            There are some things better in the US, only they just aren't very obvious. And America is rapidly losing its "better" status to other countries. But that trend can be reversed by a committed populace and progressive policies. It is not too late.

                            Waging war on our poor and disabled is not something that makes America "better."
                            Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                            People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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                            • #15
                              Re: America's War on the Poor

                              Originally posted by matapule View Post
                              1. Some people, actually quite a few, are incapable of working harder or smarter. They just aren't blessed. So what do we do? Take away their free bus pass and eliminate what little mobilty they had? Condemn them to a life of even greater misery?

                              2. Define what "better" is.

                              3. Mexico has better more healthy food than the US. Mexico has a better public transportation sytem than the US. Mexico has better gun control laws than the US. (Evidence? I can get anywhere in the US via public transportation, can do in Mexico? I've also heard it's easier to get illegal guns in Mexico than in the US., maybe the gun control laws are impotent.)

                              4. Tonga has a better social network than the US. Tonga has a better retirement system than the US. Tonga has a better foreign policy than the US.

                              5. Both Mexico and Tonga have a better cost of living than the US.

                              6. There are some things better in the US, only they just aren't very obvious. And America is rapidly losing its "better" status to other countries. But that trend can be reversed by a committed populace and progressive policies. It is not too late.

                              Waging war on our poor and disabled is not something that makes America "better."
                              1. Provide for their basic NEEDS and NECCESITIES through charity, supported by tax benefits and government subsidies. If we go further than that we squash their motivation. Why work when there's a free ride?

                              2. My friend in a European country got all his cardiac bypasses at the cost of the State. That's one example, but only in one thing: critical medicine. They don't have much freedom as we understand it, but he doesn't care, he's alive.

                              3. So you say.... What is "better?" I understand the guns in Mexico are used in drug wars that cause more deaths than the US drug wars. That's better? The gun laws are ineffective.

                              4. Anybody has a better foreign policy than the US. As for the rest - Tonga is a small island group with few international problems; the comparison is unfair. Is it a better place to live? How? I guess it depends on what you want. I'm unfamiliar with modern Tonga.

                              5. OK. So does Vietnam, Campuchea, Sudan, and a thousand other places I'd rather not live. But if the standard of living is better there, why bare so many Mexicans entering the US illegally?? And why are Tongans coming to America to live? My new neighbors are Tongans. Very nice people, but a bit formal for my taste.

                              6. I agree wholeheartedly. We have smart and stupid people, smart and stupid politicians, and we don't always make the best choices. Who does?

                              But I like it better here (Hawai`i) than anywhere else I've been. I've lived in Mexico D.F., but not in Tonga.

                              I don't think our government is "waging war" on our poor and disabled. Some of it can be attributed to blind neglect and apathy; some of it can be described as 'intolerance and ignorance.' But not war - that's a bit drastic.

                              Between the very poor and the very rich (both minorities) there are those like myself who get by from month to month rather than from day to day (like the poor), or from decade to decade (like the very rich).

                              Along the continuum, we struggle or not, to different degrees. At one time I lived in a car. I had no excuse except misfortune, no way to get government help. I pulled myself up by my bootstraps, took what advantages I could, to get where I am.

                              I know there are some who cannot even do that, and many of them are cared for by our social system, and many slip through the cracks, as well.

                              This is America, not Santa Claus, not the Tooth Fairy. There is nothing in our constitution that says we must support every non-working person - or nobody would be working!

                              Anyone can improve their lot, either by hard or smart work, or by charity appeals or even just appeals to other citizens. I have people working for me for whom I was their only source of income, and they learned from that to expand their base, and they are doing even better.

                              The sure road to failure is to do nothing.
                              Last edited by Kaonohi; March 15, 2011, 05:01 PM.
                              Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                              ~ ~
                              Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                              Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                              Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

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