The Debt Ceiling

[Kalalau]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

It wasn't that easy to get out of the last Depression. A lot of economists even say it wasn't ended until WW2 ended, it ate up a lot of productive capacity and built up a reserve of demand. Money spent by the fed gvt then at least went to Americans, money paid to workers went to buy products made by other Americans but now most of it will be going overseas and helping foreign workers. Deliberately creating a recession or a Depression now is insane, especially for the utterly trivial selfish aim of defeating Obama in the next election. Last Depression we were lucky enough to get FDR. Other parts of the world got people like Hitler or Mao or Stalin, its pretty much a matter of luck. Palin is not all there, Bachman is clearly not connected to reality, Romney made his fortune firing people from businesses he took over, so the perfect storm continues. It will be fun seeing the teapot people expecting federal help or handouts, it always happens eventually.

[matapule]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

I actually agree with Nichols point about about “ending tax breaks for corporations that invest offshore—and cutting wasteful defense and corporate-welfare spending.” ............These are both points, by the way, that Tea Party/libertarian politicos have agreed with fiscally conservative Democrats over (despite matapule’s misinformed comments).

Then where were you last month when Obama proposed exactly this type of reform? Why didn't you post your support on this forum? Now you blame the collapse on Obama (don't make me go back and quote you). It is perfectly clear what you are up to. Where was Rand Paul and his support for that plan? Why didn't teapublicans/libertarians get on board and push that proposal through?

Our country functioned without an income tax for more than a century. We can do it again.

Now I understand. You want to go back to the 1800's! BACK TO THE PAST. I hope you really like the hardships that people suffered during that time. You are perfectly free to live in the romanticized version of your world (guns, horses, poverty, and pestilence) but please leave the rest of us out of it. You can move to any number of places in the world (including Somalia) where you won't have to pay taxes. Enjoy!

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

I actually agree with Nichols point about about “ending tax breaks for corporations that invest offshore—and cutting wasteful defense and corporate-welfare spending.” Particularly for multi-national corporations like Walmart, who Democrats like Hillary Clinton and Ben Cayetano have bent over backwards to kiss @ss to. These are both points, by the way, that Tea Party/libertarian politicos have agreed with fiscally conservative Democrats over

Au contraire! The Tea Baggers in the House supported no such thing.

Virtually all of the Tea Party-supported GOP members in the House signed Grover Norquist's "no tax increase pledge," which called for no increase in tax rates for either individuals and businesses, as well as opposing any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits unless matched dollar-for-dollar by further reducing tax rates.

List of all congressional members who signed the Taxpayer Protection Pledge

Note that only 6 House Republicans didn't sign that pledge. Despite everything you say, it was these Tea Party Republicans who took the hard-line stance: not a cent more for tax increases and not a cent less for tax credits. Anything else is something that is being pulled straight out of where the sun don't shine.

Our country functioned without an income tax for more than a century. We can do it again.

Now I understand. You want to go back to the 1800's! BACK TO THE PAST. I hope you really like the hardships that people suffered during that time. You are perfectly free to live in the romanticized version of your world (guns, horses, poverty, and pestilence) but please leave the rest of us out of it.

Yes, he wants to go back to an America where only about a half of the states had cumpulsory education laws. And even of those states, most of them only required it to the age of 14. He would have us go back to a time where only the wealthy could send their children to high school and college.

And with that declaration, Tunnl has proceeded to blow whatever credibility he had in this discussion.

[matapule]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

Yes, he wants to go back to an America where only about a half of the states had cumpulsory education laws. And even of those states, most of them only required it to the age of 14.

My grandmother was turned out of her house at age 12 by very loving parents. They could no longer afford her in a large family of 12 children. That would have been in 1911. She went to work for a local family as a domestic where she worked for no wages other than room and board. She had the last laugh though, she lived to age 99. I was her eldest grandchild and we had a special bond. I miss my "Memo" dearly.

Thanks, but no thanks Tunnl. You go back to that age of no taxes and take all your tealibertarians with you. How does a tax free life in Afghanistan sound to you? Plenty of guns and horses and little public education and no Medicare or Social Security there and all tax free!

[Kalalau]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

Its funny but people, not just Americans, seldom pull together except when they are confronted by a dangerous foe. For the Depression generation, it was the Depression itself. Everybody knew they were in the same boat, the idea of the parties selfishly and petulantly fighting each other while the country sank into oblivion is ridiculous, as it always should be, actually. Same generation faced Hitler and Japanese imperialist militarism, and no, you did not see Republicans trying to undermine FDR or humiliate him during WW2. And after that we had the perceived threat of world domination by Communism. Only once Communism was gone did Americans have the luxury of having brat fights in the cockpit of the airliner we are all riding in; in the wheel house of the ship of state that carries us all. And how quick it was! 1991 the USSR dissolves, 1994 Gingrich an the radio industry are promoting The Contract On America--the angry White man. I saw them, riding my bike around the privileged elite neighborhoods, rich White people standing out in front of their palatial homes complaining about..... about..... whatever Limbaugh told them was so horrible. Having to pay the servants SSI, perhaps, or to pay the gardeners even though they were Mexicans. Tough life. But it worked. Remember that magnificent spectacle of The Impeachment? For nothing. Just to embarass and humiliate a President who actually did work his way up from nothing, the picture of the Republican dream, succeeding by his own will and intelligence and ability, unlike the spoiled brat gw bush little brat boy who managed to bankrupt the nation and let 9 11 happen through his sheer laziness. Anyway, maybe there will be an invasion from space and we will all have to bond together, even Republicans will want a Black (part Black) Democratic President to succeed because they would understand that if he failed, they too would go down. The threat is always there, even during peacetime, other economies are always looking for advantages that could dump America on the garbage pile of history, but its not dramatic enough, not as dramatic as Khruschev slamming his shoe at the UN or invading Hungary, but every bit as dangerous.

[Kalalau]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

S & P just downgraded the US debt. I wonder how much extra that will cost the precious teapot taxpayers if they even notice. I wonder if China & Japan pull their money out on Monday. Thanks teaparty. Nice job. Real nice.

[TuNnL]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

And the Teapublicans/libertarians are smiling ear to ear.

I assure you neither Tea Party Republicans nor libertarians take any joy in the Congressional debacle that has led to the first-ever downgrade of our credit rating. Despite Obama’s casual dismissal of the downgrade, the stock market’s freefall continues for the third straight day...

Dow plunges 634 points after credit downgrade
S&P and Nasdaq down more than 6.7 percent

Associated Press

The U.S. stock market plunged Monday after President Barack Obama addressed Standard & Poor’s downgrading of American debt.

The Dow Jones index dropped almost 635 points, or 5.5 percent, to 10,810 points. The S&P 500 and Nasdaq indices were down more than 6.7 percent...

...Last week, the Dow Jones industrial average fell almost 700 points. That was its biggest point loss since October 2008, during the financial crisis. The Dow has dropped in nine of the last 11 trading days.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

I assure you neither Tea Party Republicans nor libertarians take any joy in the Congressional debacle that has led to the first-ever downgrade of our credit rating.

Rush Limbaugh: I hope Obama fails.

[matapule]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

[quote=TuNnL;271549]I assure you neither Tea Party Republicans nor libertarians take any joy in the Congressional debacle that has led to the first-ever downgrade of our credit rating. [quote]

I don't feel assured. I am not assured by someone (you) or a political movement (libertarians) who don't understand that the way to pay for 10 years of folly in the Middle East is by paying higher taxes to cover the costs now.

But I assure you that I hold the teapublicans/libertrians responsible for this economic crisis.

[Kalalau]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

Dow only down 634, I was expecting a thousand. Seriously. I look at this as a fairly good day, relatively speaking. The recklessness and childishness of the tea potty people is stunning. Yes, the way to pay for two needless wars and tax breaks for billionaires is to tax the rich. There has been a gigantic shift of wealth from the middle class and the poor to the richest, they certainly have the money and it would be well worth it for them to pay whatever it takes to keep this ship of state afloat, they will go down with everybody else if it founders.

[Walkoff Balk]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

The people with gold teeth must be smiling.

[MyopicJoe]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

The people with gold teeth must be smiling.

Until people without gold teeth tear them out with pliers...



On another note, OMG this is freakin hilarious. Take a look at why Greenspan thinks our economy will do fine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6vi528gseA

The face of the guy next to him is priceless (especially if paid in U.S. dollars)

[matapule]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

On another note, OMG this is freakin hilarious. Take a look at why Greenspan thinks our economy will do fine:
The face of the guy next to him is priceless (especially if paid in U.S. dollars)

That is funny! What is he doing? trying to suppress a tepilo?

[MyopicJoe]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

That is funny! What is he doing? trying to suppress a tepilo?

What's a tepilo?

[Kalalau]

Re: The Debt Ceiling

I know what a tepuli is, but not a tepilo. Could a tepilo be a lalahu?