The impending war with Iran

[waioli kai]

attack first, pay later

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'Interesting theory of why the US wants to go to war with Iran and why it really decided to occupy Iraq. ... It wouldn't surprise me if Israel starts its aerial attacks of Iran around March, with our warheads.'

...if Israel starts its aerial attacks of Iran with our warheads, employing our presumption of our militarist right to attack first, pay later: that kleptomanic foundation which binds USrael --land possessions by US and by Israel being deemed to be Ghod's "blessings" on USrael, instead of being treasures stolen from indigenous peoples of the Americas, the Pacific and Palestine-- will be further exposed for all to see.

[Miulang]

Re: The impending war with Iran

OK, here we go! With Bush's popularity so low that there is virually no room left to sink any lower, the war drums are starting to beat ever more loudly for an invasion of Iran.

One thing that previous Presidencies have done when faced with bad economic times was to start a good "5 cent" war. Iraq was supposed to be one of those "nickel wars" (go in, shock and awe them and then get out) but it has since devolved into a quagmire that gets uglier and bloodier by the day.

A year ago I was predicting, based on what I was reading in the world press, that the White House would escalate its pissing match with Iran and because of our engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan, would have to rely on our buddies the Israelis to take care of the Iran situation for us. The reports I was reading indicated a likely date for this military action would be June, 2005.

Well, June, 2005 passed with no incident, but in the last several days, the likelihood of some sort of international incident involving us, Israel and Iran has been growing exponentially. For the sake of all the children alive today and those yet to be born, pray that this does not happen, because prayer is about all most of us have right now.

Miulang

[Island2Island]

Re: The impending war with Iran

Howzit! jus' joined da boards, Aloha!

Yep, looks like there at it again.......I hope it's just some "Hans L'Orange park stuff"* again.


*"Hans L'Orange park stuff"= two guys acking big, walking big, saying "Whaaat?, Whaaat? Whaat bra, like t'ro???Whaaat? You big???? Whaat? doing that for 2 hours, then going home.

[Miulang]

Re: The impending war with Iran

Here's an interesting scenario that makes so much sense it's scary. If we and Israel decide to attack Iran, that $70/barrel crude oil will cost way way more if Iran and Iraq, Venezuela, Nigeria and the Sudan all form a new cartel and starve us to death. Is it really worth having the oil producers of the world band against us when we don't even have any real alternatives to replace the crude that would be lost by a siege of sabotage to American oil company facilities overseas? $3+ per gallon of gas? It'll seem like chump change.

And ethanol is not a solution either. As farmland is being plowed under and turned into suburbia, there are fewer areas where corn can be raised. If most of the farmland is devoted to raising corn to fuel our cars, what happens to all the other agricultural products that are currently being raised? Will all the fresh fruits and vegetables we consume come from areas outside the US? Raising corn is also very water-intensive. What if there comes a time when there isn't enough water to sustain both corn crops and human beings? My guess is water is more important to human beings than their cars, although there are probably people out there who would dispute that. It's also too bad that most sugar production has moved from Hawai'i to other countries. Brazil is the first country that has declared itself not dependent on oil to fuel its cars. The new fuel source is sugar cane. Ironic, isn't it?

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Re: The impending war with Iran

Ironic, isn't it?

Not really. More like coincidental.

[Pedro]

Re: The impending war with Iran

As farmland is being plowed under and turned into suburbia, there are fewer areas where corn can be raised. If most of the farmland is devoted to raising corn to fuel our cars, what happens to all the other agricultural products that are currently being raised? Will all the fresh fruits and vegetables we consume come from areas outside the US?
Miulang[/QUOTE]

I sure hope suburbia isn't a cancer that will kill america of all it's farmland, that wouldn't be to cool

[Miulang]

Re: The impending war with Iran

And this is the "real" reason why the US is playing chicken with Iran. Next month, Iran is scheduled to require payment for its crude oil in Euros, rather than in dollars. If all of Europe, which is Iran's largest customer, converts more of its dollars to euros, it will further destablize the value of the US dollar which already is in toruble because of the White House's insistence on "free trade", which has caused, in part, our $8 billion trade deficit. And with the way Dick Cheney blasted Putin's government last week, Russia could decide not to sell any of its oil to us, too. Can you say "US recession?"

"...Presently, oil is sold exclusively on the London Petroleum Exchange and the New York Mercantile Exchange both owned by American investors. If the [Iranian] bourse opens, central banks around the world will reduce their stockpiles of dollars to maintain a portion of their currency in euros. This is the logical step for Europe which buys 70% of Iran’s oil. It is also the reasonable choice for Russia which sells two-thirds of its oil to Europe but (amazingly) continues to denominate those transactions in dollars.

Washington has succeeded in maintaining its monopoly by propping up the many corrupt and repressive regimes in the Gulf States. The prudent choice for Saudi Arabia would be to move away from the debt-ridden dollar and enhance its earnings with the stronger euro. Regrettably, Uncle Sam has a gun to their head. They understand that such a transition would invite the same response that Saddam got 6 months after he converted to euros and was removed through “shock and awe”...

Miulang

[Pedro]

Re: The impending war with Iran

So basically in a nut shell, Iran is going to be converting their money by asking for payment for their crude oil in Euros not U.S. Dollars and after that many other countries will do the same, which will lower the value of the U.S. Dollar. Am I hearing you right? Is their not a way to get out of this, is it too late?

[Miulang]

Re: The impending war with Iran

There may be some hope that we can forestall a physical confrontation with Iran IF the US pursues the diplomatic route. The new President of Iran sent a letter to the White House outlining some suggested ways that tensions over Iran's nuclear buildup might be eased.

The White House in the meantime says it isn't aware of the letter and will continue to pursue UN sanctions against Iran.

The problem with our government is it lacks the diplomatic finesse to talk about mutual benefit for both sides. In this country, it's always been "it's our way or no way". Now that most of the oil producing world would like to turn their backs to us, I don't think we as a country have much choice but to come to the table to at least listen to what the other side has to say.

Miulang

P.S. In an interview later today, Condoleeeeeza said that the Iranian letter didn't really contribute anything significant to ease the ongoing tension but was rather a historical review of the Iran-US relationship over the years. Maybe if we look at how the US has tried to engineer regime change (first by installing the puppet Shah Reza Pahlevi in the 1950s), we might get a clue as to why the Iranians are mad at us.

[Miulang]

Re: The impending war with Iran

More evidence that the White House has absolutely no intention of using diplomacy to calm the situation with Iran. Invading Iran at this point, with so many US troops still embedded in Iraq, would put our troops there in even graver danger.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The impending war with Iran

Here is the "purported" English translation of the letter that the Iranian President sent to Pres. Bush which was denounced by Condoleeeeeeeza as not being a basis for meaningful discussion about Iran's nuclear intentions.

Since 1953, when the US government backed the overthrow of Iranian Prime Minister Mossaddeq and installed the puppet Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi on the Peacock Throne, the people of Iran have had every reason not to like the US. If we do not learn lessons from past history, then we are doomed to repeat the same lessons.

Miulang

[glossyp]

Re: The impending war with Iran

All I can say is that anyone who believes Ahmadinejad is anything other than barking mad (ever heard of the Madhi, the messiah who will usher in an era of Islamic world domination, and Ahmadinejad's devotion to this messianic vision?) and a puppet of the mullahs has a very poor grasp of what is going on in Iran. I am inclined to believe him when he repeatedly says he/they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. He can dress up the rhetoric in all the anti-American sentiment that can possibly be mustered but it does not change the fact that the ultimate wish of the mullahs is to obliterate Israel, the Jews and establish a radical Islamic caliphate that will spread throughout the Middle East and on to Africa and Europe.

When I hear that there is a possible diplomatic solution to this mess and we can all just get along if we negotiate, I hear echoes from the last century when the world thought Hitler could be managed. Treaties were signed, promises made and they all came to naught because the person the world was dealing with someone who had his own agenda. If there is any lesson to be learned from history here, it is that you can't make deals with mad men.

Do I want to see any one go to war with Iran? Absolutely not, but I'm not hopeful that there may be any other choice in the long run.

[Miulang]

Re: The impending war with Iran

... If there is any lesson to be learned from history here, it is that you can't make deals with mad men.
.

Unfortunately, I think the same could be said for our (American) side of the story, too.

Miulang

[timkona]

Re: The impending war with Iran

A brief review of the Koran (Quran?) is essential reading in order that one is properly briefed to partake in any discussion about Islamic War.

"Convert or Kill" is DIRECTLY referenced at least 20 times. And phrases to that effect are sprinkled throughout the text. This is the basis of justification for most suicidal maniacs. Islam will continue to pound the infidels until they win (exterminate) all of us.

You can soft peddle this issue all you want, but the truth is the truth.

[Miulang]

Re: The impending war with Iran

A brief review of the Koran (Quran?) is essential reading in order that one is properly briefed to partake in any discussion about Islamic War.

"Convert or Kill" is DIRECTLY referenced at least 20 times. And phrases to that effect are sprinkled throughout the text. This is the basis of justification for most suicidal maniacs. Islam will continue to pound the infidels until they win (exterminate) all of us.

You can soft peddle this issue all you want, but the truth is the truth.

And what would you consider the American habit of "encouraging" regime change in countries where we don't like their politics? "Killing them gently with kindness?" And I don't think the Koran is to blame for the Islamic fundamentalism any more than the Bible is to blame for the Bible Thumpers in this country. They are very very similar (as is the Dharmapada for Buddhists) in their teachings. It's HOW people interpret what is written that can sometimes create the problems.

The so-called "holy warriors" are only trying to seek retribution for the wrongs they believe are being committed against their believers by Israel and the United States. Yes, Iran is helping Hezbollah but until and if the issue of sovereignty for the Palestinian people is resolved, there will be no peace there or in Lebanon or Syria.

Miulang