The Iraq War - Chapter 4

[nachodaddy]

Re: Too old to fight?

and let's make it more fair. Draft women too, like they do in Israel. Not that I'd want women to be on the front line, but there are some critical support jobs that women could work at and be really good at that would free up more of the men to go do the more physically demanding tasks. And the ones who didn't pass the physical could still spend 2 years working in schools in poor areas or other types of community based projects as a kind of alternative service. At least that way, they would be doing some good for people in this country.

Miulang

We finally agree on something.

but.... I hope we never get to that point. Based on history, this should be over NLT 2008.

[Miulang]

How Hezbollah impacts events in Iraq

The longer the dispute between the Zionists and Hezbollah continues, the more imperiled our own troops in Iraq are going to be. Right now, Iraq is in the midst of terrible sectarian violence between the Shia and Sunni factions. This Time article has some fascinating comparisons between the Lebanese Hezbollah and the Iraqi Mehdi Army faction and how both have morphed from being pure terrorist organizations into political movements which have stepped in to help their own marginalized people with social services that the government wasn't providing.

Our troops in Iraq are in the middle of a developing civil war. Their jobs will have to change from fighting terrorists to keeping the peace.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: How Hezbollah impacts events in Iraq

Right now, Iraq is in the midst of terrible sectarian violence between the Shia and Sunni factions. Miulang

Right now??? You're not that foolish. They've been fighting for 1000 years.

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 4

In "our" war in Afghanistan, 3 US soldiers were killed today by RPGs launched by Taliban insurgents.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 4

Did you catch the interview of Jill Carrol, the Christian Science Monitor employee (I don't call any of them journalists anymore)?

She talks about the family who held her.

Uncle would cook dinner strapped in a dynamite vest.

"Daddy" introduced his young teen daughter proudly bragging that "she wants to be a suicide bomber when she grows up". She describes the girl as smiling and blushing with the recognition.

"Mothers" are all too willing to raise their children as Martyrs.

How much sicker can you get?

[Miulang]

Haditha coverup alleged

It doesn't look too good for the Marines who are implicated in the massacre of 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha last November.

A high-level military investigation into the killings of 24 Iraqis in Haditha last November has uncovered instances in which American marines involved in the episode appear to have destroyed or withheld evidence, according to two Defense Department officials briefed on the case.

...The investigation found that an official company logbook of the unit involved had been tampered with and that an incriminating video taken by an aerial drone the day of the killings was not given to investigators until Lt. Gen. Peter W. Chiarelli, the second-ranking commander in Iraq, intervened, the officials said.

Those findings, contained in a long report that was completed last month but not made public, go beyond what has been previously reported about the case. It has been known that marines who carried out the killings made misleading statements to investigators and that senior officers were criticized for not being more aggressive in investigating the case, in which most or all of the Iraqis who were killed were civilians. But this is the first time details about possible concealment or destruction of evidence have been disclosed.

...It says that the logbook, which was meant to be a daily record of major incidents the marines’ company encountered, had all the pages missing for Nov. 19, the day of the killings, and that those portions had not been found, the officials said.

No conclusions are drawn about who may have tampered with the log. But the report says that Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich, the leader of the squad involved in the killings, was on duty at the unit’s operations center, where the logbook was kept, shortly after the killings occurred, the officials said.

...In addition to faulting officers in the Second Marine Division for not aggressively investigating the Haditha killings, the Bargewell report said the commanders had created a climate that minimized the importance of Iraqi lives, particularly in Haditha, where insurgent attacks were rampant, the officials said.

“In their eyes, they didn’t believe anyone was innocent,” said one of the officials, describing the attitude of the marines in the unit toward Iraqis. “Either you were an active participant, or you were complicit.”

I'm just wondering if the outcome would have been different if the details of the incident hadn't been falsified? Would the Commanders be more lenient on the troops, knowing the stress they were under at the time? To falsify records implies that there was some premeditation involved, or at the very least, an attempt to cover up the incident.

Miulang

[MadAzza]

Re: Haditha coverup alleged

To falsify records implies that there was some premeditation involved, or at the very least, an attempt to cover up the incident.

Miulang

How does falsifyng records after the fact show premeditation before it?

[Miulang]

Re: Haditha coverup alleged

How does falsifyng records after the fact show premeditation before it?

See the last paragraph of the quote above:

...the commanders had created a climate that minimized the importance of Iraqi lives, particularly in Haditha, where insurgent attacks were rampant, the officials said.

“In their eyes, they didn’t believe anyone was innocent,” said one of the officials, describing the attitude of the marines in the unit toward Iraqis. “Either you were an active participant, or you were complicit.”

Miulang

[Miulang]

How do you run out of gas in Baghdad?

That's what the drivers in Iraq want to know who have to wait overnight in gas lines that are miles long. The most apparent reason: government officials are siphoning off gas and reselling to criminals who then sell it on the black market to the tune of $4 billion last year!

The official explanation is attacks on infrastructure. A pipeline from the northern oilfields around Kirkuk was targeted last month while the Beiji power station, one of the country's largest, was partially closed after workers fled following death threats.

But drivers queueing outside the Muthana petrol station in central Baghdad suggested that the real reason was crooked officials in the oil ministry. They accused officials of selling fuel to criminal gangs who sell it abroad at a huge profit.

The shortage could have more far-reaching consequences than creating misery for Baghdad's car owners. It is the latest sign that the economy may be on the brink of collapse. Inflation is running at 50 per cent, corruption is rife and, most importantly, the end of next month will bring to a close the American-funded reconstruction programme, even though electricity in Baghdad remains on for one hour in three at best.

...The latest report from the oil ministry inspector-general supports their claims. It is estimated that about $4 billion (£2.1 billion) worth of oil was smuggled out last year.

The problem for the state is that, with no income tax and almost no corporate tax, the government is reliant on taxing oil revenue to pay for itself. The lack of funds is one reason it has been unable to buy enough fuel from abroad to ease the shortages.

The Sept 20 deadline for the allocation of the last $2 billion of the $21 billion that the US has provided for reconstruction is fast approaching. Although aid will continue, it will be on a far smaller scale, meaning an end to the regular injections of cash that for the past three years have helped drive Iraq's economy.

The money has failed to create the infrastructure intended, not least because much of it has had to be used to pay for the security of projects rather than on the work itself.

Miulang

[Miulang]

$1.3 TRILLION in debt added due to Iraq

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) just released a report that stated that if the US remains in Iraq through the end of this decade, it will add $1.3 TRILLION to the national debt.

Today, the Congressional Budget Office released its budget projections, estimating the deficit will rise to $286 billion in fiscal 2007, up from this year’s $260 billion projected deficit. Moreover, the long-term outlook remains bleak; total deficits over the next decade are estimated at $1.7 trillion.

The CBO offers an analysis of the impact that the Iraq war will have on future deficit numbers based on different policy options we could pursue. The highlighted numbers in the chart below compare the impact on the deficit between a “stay the course” strategy and a phased withdrawal. The numbers make for a strong economic argument for redeployment.

A phased withdrawal would save $416 billion on the deficit over the next four years and $1.28 trillion over the next decade. On the other hand, a strategy of “stay the course” will increase the deficit by $313 billion over the next four years and $1.3 trillion over the next decade.

And this is just hard dollars. How many lives (American, Iraqi and other troops in the coalition) would be spared if we got out of the quagmire sooner rather than later? Remember, the federal deficit is the legacy we're leaving our kids and grandkids, too.

Miulang

[Miulang]

From the White House.gov website

"The National Strategy for Renewal in Iraq: Helping the Iraqi People Defeat the Terrorists and Build an Inclusive Democratic State" is the document which outlines the White House strategy for bringing democracy to Iraq. 3 years later, according to the objectives of the plan, we should be in the "medium term" range, which should mean Iraq is in the lead defeating terrorists and providing its own security, with a fully constitutional government in place, and on its way to achieving its economic potential. Unfortunately, we are still in the lead in most provinces and the country is slipping into a civil war.

Nonetheless, this is a pretty fascinating document which, like so many other documents the government has produced, will have historians down the road scratching their heads, saying, "Why the heck did they want to do THAT????"

Miulang

[Miulang]

Why???

The Army has already started calling up troops from the Individual Ready Reserves, but today the Marines also announced they need at least 1,200 more volunteers for their deployments in the near future. This is the first time that the Marines have not had enough recruits to fill its active ranks and need to call up their IRRs.

Last week, a Stryker team that was on its way back to Alaska was ordered to turn around and return to Iraq. Active duty troops are being redeployed for second and third tours.

The longer and more often our troops redeploy to the battlefield, the more injuries and deaths will be incurred, morale will plummet. Maybe Lt. Watada was right: maybe there will be more troops refusing to go back to battle; there already appears to be a problem with finding new recruits to replace them. Either our participation in the occupation of Iraq will have to end because we won't have the troops to send there, or all you young people between 18-32 better prepare yourselves for a draft.

Miulang

P.S. It's also interesting to note that in Israel, where military service is "supposed" to be mandatory, apparently many of the young adults living in Tel Aviv and the big cities are figuring out ways to dodge the draft, which leaves the majority of the IDF's forces coming from the kibbutzim. Kinda sounds like what happens in this country: better educated and more wealthy kids find ways to avoid entering military service, leaving it to less advantaged kids who join for the potential of an education and good pay and a better future.

[Miulang]

"Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11"

See and hear it for yourself: George Bush, caught on camera saying that our invasion of Iraq and the toppling of Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks on 9/11.

BUSH: The terrorists attacked us and killed 3,000 of our citizens before we started the freedom agenda in the Middle East.

QUESTION: What did Iraq have to do with it?

BUSH: What did Iraq have to do with what?

QUESTION: The attack on the World Trade Center.

BUSH: Nothing. Except it’s part of — and nobody has suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attack. Iraq was a — Iraq — the lesson of September 11th is take threats before they fully materialize, Ken. Nobody’s ever suggested that the attacks of September the 11th were ordered by Iraq.

So I wonder how Dubya's gonna weasel out of THAT faux pas (and why wasn't the man behind the curtain yanking George's chain as he uttered those words?)

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Joseph Goebbels

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 4

After families send their loved ones to Iraq and Afghanistan, and then those loved ones die over there, doesn't the government at least have the obligation to notify the grieving families of the real circumstances surrounding that loved one's death? From the widely publicized case of Pat Tillman in Afghanistan to at least 1,700 other military deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan, families apparently are not being told the true causes of death or are not being told in a timely fashion.

The only reason why the Army is investigating the circumstances of these 1,700 deaths and the kind of notifications that went out is because families started complaining that they were not being told the final cause of death.

My guess is many were either friendly fire accidents or suicide. It's really sad that these men and women have to have the reasons for their deaths covered up sometimes.

The Army initiated the move after family members said they were told months after a death that the circumstances were different than originally reported.

"We have made errors in the past with casualty notifications and are rectifying the process with compassion and enthusiasm," the Army said in a written statement.

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 4

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/0...best-war-ever/