Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Don't underestimate the complexity of the legal maneuvering here, folks.

Lt. Watada signed a statement admitting that he (a) made the speeches that were at the heart of the two dropped "conduct unbecoming" charges, and (b) did not board the plane taking his unit to Iraq. He did so because of his questioning of the legality of the war in Iraq. By mutual agreement, the Army dropped those two charges after Watada signed the statement.

But the judge declared that the legality issue could not be discussed in this court-martial. Watada argues that his legality concern was key to his reason for not boarding the plane (and for signing the statement admitting so) - but that can no longer be discussed in the court. Judge Head wants to ask Watada about his interpretation of the statement, defense attorney Seitz objects to the judge's questioning, the agreement is tossed out - and we have a mistrial.

The risk to Watada now is that the Army may choose to reinstate those other two charges, adding on a possible two more years of incarceration. The defense gains time to restructure their case, however, since it was originally built on the not-to-be-discussed legality issue.

I wouldn't be surprised if the defense asks for a new judge to oversee the case, too. This is gonna stretch out for a lot longer than expected; such are the machinations of the legal world. Much of it is outta the Lieutenant's hands now.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Hmmmm.....I'm not so confident:

~~~ A mistrial in the court-martial of Army 1st Lt. Ehren Watada "is very likely to have the consequence of ending this case," his lawyer said in a news release. "The mistrial is very likely to have the consequence of ending this case because double jeopardy may prevent the government from proceeding with a retrial," said Eric Seitz, lead attorney for Watada. "Although the defense was prepared to proceed with Lt. Watada's testimony, and felt very optimistic about this trial, we view the order declaring a mistrial as a significantly positive event." ~~~ (from the Advertiser's website)

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Hmmmm.....I'm not so confident:

~~~ A mistrial in the court-martial of Army 1st Lt. Ehren Watada "is very likely to have the consequence of ending this case," his lawyer said in a news release. "The mistrial is very likely to have the consequence of ending this case because double jeopardy may prevent the government from proceeding with a retrial," said Eric Seitz, lead attorney for Watada. "Although the defense was prepared to proceed with Lt. Watada's testimony, and felt very optimistic about this trial, we view the order declaring a mistrial as a significantly positive event." ~~~ (from the Advertiser's website)

Depends on what they try him for in a second trial. If the charges are worded differently from his first trial (and the circumstances of those charges differ, as in what the Judge was trying to determine today), then there would be no double jeopardy and a second trial could be ordered. I don't think it's over...not by a longshot. The Army wouldn't be giving up this easily at this point, not after all that they went through in order to put Lt. Watada on trial in the first place.

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

K-den....his Lawyer needs to have a "Monkey head transplant!"

To Shut-up!!!!!

Made ya LAUGH!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Auntie Lynn

[Adri]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Hmmmm.....I'm not so confident:

~~~ /snip "The mistrial is very likely to have the consequence of ending this case because double jeopardy may prevent the government from proceeding with a retrial," said Eric Seitz, lead attorney for Watada. "Although the defense was prepared to proceed with Lt. Watada's testimony, and felt very optimistic about this trial, we view the order declaring a mistrial as a significantly positive event." ~~~ (from the Advertiser's website)

I'm not so sure about that either. I'm not a criminal law lawyer but I think
the Fifth Amendment prohibition against double jeoparty is usually interpreted as a protection against another prosecution for the same offense after acquittal, another prosecution for the same offense after conviction or multiple punishments for the same offense. Mistrials are not acquittals. Mistrials are not usually covered by double jeopardy if the case terminates without a finding in the defendant's favor as long as the prosecutor or judge has not acted in bad faith.

[speedtek]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I do not really understand why the world has to make a big fuss of all this. His commanders should have just thrown him on a plane to Afghanistan like he said he would go to instaed of Iraq and let it rest. Probably no one would have found out and the Military would not be in a uproar.

How many times have your kids fought you over someplace they don't want to go? but willing to go somewhere else and you give in? Don't tell me he is not a kid. WE ARE ALL KIDS, no matter how old we are. If we all acted like grown-ups the world would be a different place.

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I do not really understand why the world has to make a big fuss of all this. His commanders should have just thrown him on a plane to Afghanistan like he said he would go to instaed of Iraq and let it rest. Probably no one would have found out and the Military would not be in a uproar.

How many times have your kids fought you over someplace they don't want to go? but willing to go somewhere else and you give in? Don't tell me he is not a kid. WE ARE ALL KIDS, no matter how old we are. If we all acted like grown-ups the world would be a different place.

The reasoning is simple: the military does not like being made fools of. They require obedience above all ("here, just give us your body to use; don't think, just do"). So when "thinking" soldiers do things to openly defy orders, they have to punish them so that other soldiers who might have the same idea won't try to do the same thing. They call that defiance insubordination and they exact some pretty steep punishment.

The military is very very monolithic and it takes them forever to change the way they do things. Being in the military is less about thinking and more about doing. And therein lies the problem.

I think the Army will just try to regroup and put Lt. Watada on trial again. The JAGs will just figure out a way to rework the charges to make them stick next time. I still predict Lt. Watada will get jail time, anywhere from 6 to 18 months, UNLESS there's a way to prove that the war is illegal (i.e. whatever comes out of the Libby trial that implicates Cheney and Bush might help).

Miulang

[Adri]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I do not really understand why the world has to make a big fuss of all this. His commanders should have just thrown him on a plane to Afghanistan like he said he would go to instaed of Iraq and let it rest. Probably no one would have found out and the Military would not be in a uproar.

How many times have your kids fought you over someplace they don't want to go? but willing to go somewhere else and you give in? Don't tell me he is not a kid. WE ARE ALL KIDS, no matter how old we are. If we all acted like grown-ups the world would be a different place.

I deeply suspect that they might have done something quietly (given the number of people who have protested going into combat and been dishonorably discharged without the public spectacle and without being threatened with incarceration). Maybe not sent him to Afghanistan because they would probably want someone who follows orders without making waves. I think his seeking publicity on his position that the war in Iraq is illegal and therefore he will not go to Iraq (but to show that he is not a coward or that he is not shirking his duty will go to Afghanistan) probably left the powers that be in the military feeling like they had no choice but to prosecute him. The military cannot function if they had to send their individual soldiers where the individuals demand to go and they wouldn't want a public predecent of allowing that. TPTB also probably don't want to do anything that seems to be implying that perhaps the war in Iraq is illegal.

I'm not saying that Watada is right or wrong. I understand his believing that if he sees something that he believes to be wrong being done, he needs to speak up about it and not participate in the wrong doing.

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I deeply suspect that they might have done something quietly (given the number of people who have protested going into combat and been dishonorably discharged without the public spectacle and without being threatened with incarceration). Maybe not sent him to Afghanistan because they would probably want someone who follows orders without making waves. I think his seeking publicity on his position that the war in Iraq is illegal and therefore he will not go to Iraq (but to show that he is not a coward or that he is not shirking his duty will go to Afghanistan) probably left the powers that be in the military feeling like they had no choice but to prosecute him. The military cannot function if they had to send their individual soldiers where the individuals demand to go and they wouldn't want a public predecent of allowing that. TPTB also probably don't want to do anything that seems to be implying that perhaps the war in Iraq is illegal.

I'm not saying that Watada is right or wrong. I understand his believing that if he sees something that he believes to be wrong being done, he needs to speak up about it and not participate in the wrong doing.

I believe the contrary. What makes Lt. Watada different from all the other deserters and protestors in uniform is he is the first OFFICER to openly defy orders while still on active duty during this campaign. Lt. Watada only went public because the military refused to let him 1) resign his commission or 2) ship him to Afghanistan.

Refusing to allow him to resign his commission because of the reason he stated (the illegality of the war) was the reason why this whole thing started. If he hadn't said the reason he wanted to resign was because he thought the war was illegal, they probably would have let him go quietly. So now it's become a pissing match, and I think the Army loses, no matter what the outcome.

Lt. Watada shares a dubious distinction with Gen. Douglas McArthur, who was relieved of his duties by Pres. Harry Truman for failing to follow the orders of the Commander in Chief. McArthur was also considered a "thinking" soldier.

Miulang

P.S. Here is a somewhat legalese explanation of why Lt. Watada might actually be able to get away with no jail time. It's related to the fact that at the point the judge indicated he might want to declare a mistrial, BOTH the prosecution and defense said they wanted to continue on with the case even though eventually, the whole case WOULD have to ride on whether or not the war was illegal, and the judge had already ruled that any statements about the illegality of the war were not admissable.

[joshuatree]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I believe the contrary. What makes Lt. Watada different from all the other deserters and protestors in uniform is he is the first OFFICER to openly defy orders while still on active duty during this campaign. Lt. Watada only went public because the military refused to let him 1) resign his commission or 2) ship him to Afghanistan.

Refusing to allow him to resign his commission because of the reason he stated (the illegality of the war) was the reason why this whole thing started. If he hadn't said the reason he wanted to resign was because he thought the war was illegal, they probably would have let him go quietly. So now it's become a pissing match, and I think the Army loses, no matter what the outcome.

Lt. Watada shares a dubious distinction with Gen. Douglas McArthur, who was relieved of his duties by Pres. Harry Truman for failing to follow the orders of the Commander in Chief. McArthur was also considered a "thinking" soldier.

Miulang

P.S. Here is a somewhat legalese explanation of why Lt. Watada might actually be able to get away with no jail time. It's related to the fact that at the point the judge indicated he might want to declare a mistrial, BOTH the prosecution and defense said they wanted to continue on with the case even though eventually, the whole case WOULD have to ride on whether or not the war was illegal, and the judge had already ruled that any statements about the illegality of the war were not admissable.

Watada was also offered a desk job in Iraq which he refused.

McArthur was also an arrogant soldier by the time of the Korean War. He had so much warning of a Chinese involvement but he blew it off. But I digress.

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Watada was also offered a desk job in Iraq which he refused.

And he refused because he believed (and still does) that our occupation of Iraq is illegal and only occurred because of lies. If nothing else, you gotta admit the guy's been unwavering in his belief (some would call that being "bakatare").

Miulang

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

all I can think of is that there are movies galore of the principled soldier who turns coat against the Machine™ to do the morally right thing....Rambo immediately comes to mind.

Sigh. That's Hollywood.

In the real world, don't you dare defy orders. You go down with the ship you voluntarily stepped upon and even if you are committing war crimes, rest assured that the heads that be will roll for it down the line, but damnit do your time!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

but damnit do your time!

Or accept the consequences for not doing so - which is where the Lieutenant stands. People keep forgetting that he has NEVER said "you can't punish me for this."

All along, he has been very clear that he recognizes that he will pay a price for his actions - yet he sticks to what he firmly believes. Is he a hero for that? I don't consider him as such. But is that action worthy of respect? Yes it is - whether I agree with it or not is not relevant.

[glossyp]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

A different view of the Watada situation. Watada's Re-volting Mistrial. An interesting article regardless of political preference or opinions about Watada's actions.

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Here's an even more bizarre tale about an Army Ranger who says he got some of his buddies to help him rob a bank in the state of WA and then deliberately left clues so they would get caught...because it was the only way he could figure out that an enlisted man could protest the illegal occupation of Iraq (he had already served one tour of duty there). The guy, like Lt. Watada, had been highly regarded by his commanders until he pulled this stunt. Unlike Lt. Watada, the guy is a Canadian national who signed up for the US Army as soon as he turned 18. He's under house arrest in Canada until the Army can get him down to Ft. Lewis.

He thinks he can beat the robbery rap because he's Canadian and the reason he robbed the bank was not for criminal but political reasons (to bring attention to war crimes being committed in Iraq). Sheesh.

Miulang