Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

[ewatada]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I miss Maui deeply... However a sacrifice has been made... I am simply trading one beauty for another instead of the tropics now I am in the Great White North (which really it doesn't snow all year round, and the Haoles here aint that great so I dont get the name) but Canada is beautiful but nothing compare to Hawaii. I have learned you cannot replace home...

And on a ligher note... Canadian Beer is way better in my opinion to any american beer... Canada is home to over +80 varieties of corporate brewed beers and endless microbrews. Molsen is better than Budwiser or Coors. And yes I have tried Kokanee but my favorite is Wild Boar Black Oak Pale Ale. I have tried all kinds of beer here and I find Qubeec beer is the best...

Maybe if war in Iran happens, many American become Canadian. British have terrorist problems, they too go to Canada.

[joshuatree]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

If I was president, I say single men only allowed to join.

Bad idea, usually married or attached men fare better under conditions of battle. Single men sometimes go all out and lose their moral conscience. Ever notice usually when some squad goes nuts and commit war crimes, more often than not, they are single men? Besides, if you look at higher rank personel, these are family men who've made a career out of the military. You will lose all that experience with your policy.

I always thought Japan was very smart not to have a standing Army anymore after WW2.

Smart or more like limited by their constitution which denouces the right to a standing army because of their aggression in WW2? Until that country can truly come to terms with their past, I, for one, would be against Japan re-establishing a "normal" military. Their SDF is already a powerful "military", only difference being they are completely geared towards a defensive posture.

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

A definition of military justice: 8 years in prison to a Marine for knowingly participating in events leading up to the kidnapping and murder of an innocent Iraqi civilian, plus demotion in rank and a dishonorable discharge vs. Lt. Watada's 6 years for refusing to deploy in a war he believes is illegal but harming no one but himself, plus demotion and a less than honorable discharge if convicted. Hmmmm...

Miulang

[TuNnL]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Hmmm... it does look like Lt. Watada’s case will be in limbo for quite some time. Nearly two weeks later, no transcript of the proceedings, no new charges filed by the Army. Pretty much everyone conceding a re-trial won’t happen on March 19th. In the mean time, he’s sitting at a desk job his term of service technically no longer requires. Didn’t his parents help Ehren clear out his apartment?

At this point, he might just volunteer to go to Iraq out of sheer boredom.

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Hmmm... it does look like Lt. Watada’s case will be in limbo for quite some time. Nearly two weeks later, no transcript of the proceedings, no new charges filed by the Army. Pretty much everyone conceding a re-trial won’t happen on March 19th. In the mean time, he’s sitting at a desk job his term of service technically no longer requires. Didn’t his parents help Ehren clear out his apartment?

At this point, he might just volunteer to go to Iraq out of sheer boredom.

The Army isn't about to release a full transcript of the hearing because they don't want anyone on the outside to dissect the travesty of Judge Head's declaration of a mistrial. And the fact that Lt. Watada has fully served out his time in the Army now (as of the end of Dec.) means that he is technically a civilian, even though he continues to go to work at Ft. Lewis. His brother helped him pack up his stuff because everybody was sure he would be thrown into prison.

In order for the Army to get out of double jeopardy, it was suggested that the commanders could again try to get Lt. Watada to deploy and then he would again refuse, but that wouldn't constitute double jeopardy because they were different orders (filed at a different time). But the fact that he's now a civilian probably means that can't use that excuse again anyway.

In another case, where a soldier went AWOL rather than deploy for a second tour to Iraq, the soldier was sentenced to 7 months in prison and a dishonorable discharge. He could have served up to 10 month for going AWOL.

Miulang

[Adri]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Is Watada completely done? Is he subject to the 5 year (I think it was 5 years) period during which he can be recalled as part of the Individual Ready Reserve?

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Is Watada completely done? Is he subject to the 5 year (I think it was 5 years) period during which he can be recalled as part of the Individual Ready Reserve?

Yes, he is still part of the IRR, but I don't know which unit he would be assigned to. He could refuse to deploy as an IRR, but I don't think it carries the same weight as when you're in the active Army.

Miulang

[anapuni808]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

These "Talking Points" may be moot at this point but they do offer an alternative way of looking at the actions of Lt. Watada. From www.thankyoult.org:

Talking Points about Lt. Watada’s court martial and mistrial:
• An officer does not swear to blindly obey the orders of the commander in chief.
A commissioned officer does not take the same oath as an enlisted person.
An enlisted person swears to obey the orders of the president and officers above them.
An officer swears to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic” and “bear true faith and allegiance to the same,” i.e., the Constitution.

• Lt. Watada followed military protocol and went to his chain of command before going public with his statement. Lt. Watada followed protocol and advice from the public relations officer at Fort Lewis before making his public statement on June 7, 2006.
At Lt. Watada’s court martial, Lt. Col. Bruce Antonia testified that Col. Townsend counseled Lt. Watada about making a public statement of his beliefs concerning the Iraq War. Col. Townsend advised Lt. Watada to make statements while off-duty, out of uniform and on his own time. The statement should be delivered at a site away from Ft. Lewis and Lt. Watada should speak for himself as an individual and not as a representative of the military. Lt. Watada was not directed to withhold public statements. He was told to work with the Ft. Lewis Public Affairs Office, and he made his public statements according to their advice.

• Officers are taught to be critical thinkers. Whether their conclusions are right or wrong, it is their duty and right to question orders.
The prosecution called Professor Richard Swain, US Military Academy, West Point to testify. Professor Swain is the author of the textbook used in the course of Professional Military Ethics, including honor code, ethics of officership, and officership instructions. He was presented as an expert in officership and traditions and customs of officers.
Professor Swain: “The oath an officer takes is the foundation point for what you expect of an officer; to diligently execute duties of office.”
Attorney Eric Seitz: “What do you teach officers about being critical thinkers?”
Swain: “Should officers think for themselves – absolutely. Do officers come to different conclusions as commanders? Absolutely.
Seitz , “What is the proper way to address professional conduct to work out differences with a commanding officer?”
Swain: “There are all kinds of ways, depending on the nature of the issue. There are all kinds of recourse. Article 38 in UCMJ – appeal for redress- go to commander’s command, go to peers and officers he respects to sort out the difference.”
Seitz: “If a young officer comes to a conclusion different than from command?”
Swain: “He should look carefully and examine the issue and then discuss with others through legal channels.”
Seitz: “If channels don’t work, then should the officer seek to resign?”
Swain: “To offer resignation is one remedy. Right or wrong, if an officer is convinced an order is immoral or illegal – there is a distinction between legal issues and moral issues -- if there is a violation of laws, of a principal of law, an officer is not under obligation. But you have to be right or an officer will be held accountable. Moral issues -- what I personally cannot do -- this is a moral dilemma. You have to do what conscience tells you to do, and you must be ready to be fully accountable."

• Lt. Watada’s actions have not affected the morale of his company.
Lt. Col. William James is a battalion commander at Fort Lewis. He was aware of Lt. Watada’s request to resign, and counseled Lt. Watada
Attorney Seitz asked Lt. Col. William James, “Would you expect officers to act in a manner that is not in accord with their conscience?” James answered, “No.”
Seitz: Did anyone else follow Lt. Watada’s example?
James: No – There was discussion and controversy. People questioned what he said.
According to Lt. Antonia, Lt. Watada’s comments did not negatively impact the soldiers in his unit. There was controversy and discussion, but no negative impact.

• The army court martial did not represent a fair and impartial trial, and the mistrial that resulted places Lt. Watada in double jeopardy if a new trial is recommended by General Dubik. It’s time for the army to take the action that should have occurred in January, 2006: accept Lt. Watada’s resignation.
In a letter dated October 20, 2006 to U.S. Senator Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, Lt. General Dubik stated that the military justice system “serves the dual purpose of helping commanders preserve good order and discipline and the need for a fair and just result in each case. . . . It affords Soldiers extensive rights to ensure fair and impartial investigations and trials, just as in the civil system. If this case goes to trial, 1Lt Watada will have an opportunity to present all relevant evidence.”
Lt. Watada’s court martial was anything but fair and impartial. Decisions from the pre-trial hearing and the court martial were intended to prevent him and others from testifying regarding the legality of the Iraq War. Those intentions were manifested in the judge’s abuse of judicial discretion, the mistrial that resulted, and a situation of double jeopardy should the government attempt to re-try Lt. Watada. Lt. Watada has conducted himself with honor and courage. It’s time for the U.S. Army to do the same.

[Kahalu'u Kid]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Mahalo Anapuni ... Your summary's very interesting as I haven't had the time to keep up with all the details of the trial. Aloha.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Army refiles charges - back to square one.

[ewatada]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

One word: HEROS!!!

Auntie Lynn

I bet you when USA gets into war with Iran, many Americans will flee to Canada. Maybe then, III Marines will take Japanese nationals to become US citizens by making Japanese Marine Corps.

Will we be the next to "Go For Broke?"

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I bet you when USA gets into war with Iran, many Americans will flee to Canada. Maybe then, III Marines will take Japanese nationals to become US citizens by making Japanese Marine Corps.

Will we be the next to "Go For Broke?"

Einosuke, why are you so gung ho on going to war? If the United States gets involved in a war in Iran, we will not be putting soldiers on that ground. It will be fought from the air, with missiles and bombs.

There are better ways to become an American citizen than by becoming a Marine and killing people.

Miulang

[waikikiluau]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Just check this out: www.911truth.org

and what these 2 presidential candidates say about the war in Iraq: www.freewebs.com/vote4dreamteam

Mahalo!

[glossyp]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Just check this out: www.911truth.org

and what these 2 presidential candidates say about the war in Iraq: www.freewebs.com/vote4dreamteam

Mahalo!

We discuss the 9/11 conspiracy stuff in this thread. Perhaps you should post this there since this thread is about Lt. Watada, or at least we try to stay on topic!