The "Real" Middle Eastern War

[Levia]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

....some of my best friends are Jews... You really should see Gentleman's Agreement... you could relate to some of the characters.

P.S. I've had a crush on Bibi for years because I think he's really a good looking guy, and he's smart, too.

Yeah, he is nice looking, and usually people who know Israeli government, always push "Why not bring back B.B.?" Too bad he's so commercial, huh?

The other night, a retired marine told me that if Israel cannot eradicate Hezbollah from the Lebanese-Israeli border, it will only encourage other terrorists. He said, "I want Israel to win this, because if they don't, those b****rds (terrorists) will bring it here. And I don't wanna fight them on American soil."

Looks like NO ONE wants to fight terrorism on "their turf" - It's sad, but good thing Israel is doing the world's work right now.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

....some of my best friends are Jews... You really should see Gentleman's Agreement... you could relate to some of the characters.

Yeah, he is nice looking, and usually people who know Israeli government, always push "Why not bring back B.B.?" Too bad he's so commercial, huh?

The other night, a retired marine told me that if Israel cannot eradicate Hezbollah from the Lebanese-Israeli border, it will only encourage other terrorists. He said, "I want Israel to win this, because if they don't, those b****rds (terrorists) will bring it here. And I don't wanna fight them on American soil."

Looks like NO ONE wants to fight terrorism on "their turf" - It's sad, but good thing Israel is doing the world's work right now.

The Knesset is in their meeting right now (according to a Ha'aretz newsflash). Let's hope the outcome is positive so that a cease fire happens on Monday at 7 a.m. Looks like Egypt will be the intermediary to ask Tehran to force Hezbollah to give up the kidnapped soldiers. And yes, if Nasrallah violates that cease fire agreement, then Israel should let all hell break loose.

Miulang

[Levia]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Let's hope the outcome is positive so that a cease fire happens on Monday at 7 a.m. Looks like Egypt will be the intermediary to ask Tehran to force Hezbollah to give up the kidnapped soldiers.

I don't see how a ceasefire on the side of terrorism would last. Did you not read the news on Indonesia sending over more terrorists and money to support Nasrallah and Hezbollah?

Here, just in case you missed it.

Indonesia Group Says It Is Picking Anti-Israel Volunteers

And yes, if Nasrallah violates that cease fire agreement, then Israel should let all hell break loose.

Nasrallah has already violated the ceasefire - Resolution 1559.
Hezbollah wasn't supposed to kidnap and murder Israeli soldiers.

But, when Israel defends herself, you scream "disproportionate use of force!"
What would be different when Nasrallah violates the new resolution?
You'll just have to go back to the drawing board, find a new angle to blame Israel.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

I don't see how a ceasefire on the side of terrorism would last. Did you not read the news on Indonesia sending over more terrorists and money to support Nasrallah and Hezbollah?

Here, just in case you missed it.

Indonesia Group Says It Is Picking Anti-Israel Volunteers


Nasrallah has already violated the ceasefire - Resolution 1559.
Hezbollah wasn't supposed to kidnap and murder Israeli soldiers.

But, when Israel defends herself, you scream "disproportionate use of force!"
What would be different when Nasrallah violates the new resolution?
You'll just have to go back to the drawing board, find a new angle to blame Israel.

Yes, I read your story about the terrorists in Indonesia assisting Hezbollah. Yes, I mean it if Nasrallah violates a cease fire agreement that Israel should continue to go after him. But if you insist that all of the 40% of the Shia population in Lebanon should also be punished for what he and his jihadists are doing by being killed, then I say bullshit. That would amount to a pogrom. Jews know what pogroms are. Why would they want to inflict that kind of pain on another group of innocent people? The real test will be if Israel and Hezbollah both have integrity enough to abide by the agreements that they sign. Why can't Mossad and the Israeli special forces find Nasrallah and take care of him like I know they have the capability of doing? Israel has the best trained intelligence officers in the world, and their Special Forces group is far far better than America's.

Miulang

[Levia]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Yes, I mean it if Nasrallah violates a cease fire agreement that Israel should continue to go after him.

Nasrallah isn't suppsed to have his jihadists in Lebanon. Hezbollah struck Israel so many times since 2000, but no condemnation from you about that?

Nasrallah IS in violation - Israel HAD to defend herslf.

But if you insist that all of the 40% of the Shia population in Lebanon should also be punished for what he and his jihadists are doing by being killed, then I say bullshit.

The only BS here, Miulang, is your propaganda and rhetoric.

Hezbollah live among the Lebanese - you already know that - EVERYone knows that. They commit warcrimes from within and around the homes of innocent Lebanese.

Hezbollah is not an "army" they are guerillas living with the Lebanese - and use urban warfare.

Why do you insist to back Hezbollah?

Why can't Mossad and the Israeli special forces find Nasrallah and take care of him like I know they have the capability of doing?Miulang

Nasrallah is in Iran. Why suddenly do you consider Jews as super-human that can do ANYthing? Mossad is good, like our special forces are damn-good, but they can't do EVERything, Miulang.

And If Nasrallah is gone, there's still this huge organization called Hezbollah. Currently, most members are in Lebanon. Can't just take out the head if you need to destroy the whole terrorist organization.

Take a look at Israel's enemies!
Hezbollah or civilian??

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Nasrallah isn't suppsed to have his jihadists in Lebanon. Hezbollah struck Israel so many times since 2000, but no condemnation from you about that?

Nasrallah IS in violation - Israel HAD to defend herslf.

Yes he violated 1559, but why is Israel now having to sign another UN agreement that supercedes that? Why didn't Olmert just go back to the UN Security Council and demand that it force the Lebanese government to comply with the provisions of 1559?

The only BS here, Miulang, is your propaganda and rhetoric.

And what are your statements?

Hezbollah live among the Lebanese - you already know that - EVERYone knows that. They commit warcrimes from within and around the homes of innocent Lebanese.

And Israeli reservists and youths serving in the Army live on kibbutzim, too, among civilians. You're right about one thing, though. The Israelis don't fire Katushyas from residential buildings at their enemy. But why did those 12 Israeli soldiers not heed the air raid siren (like the townspeople did) and evacuate so they could avoid being killed?

Miulang

P.S. If Mossad and the Israeli Special Forces can't get rid of scum like Nasrallah, how can any other country with far less skilled intell people (including us) do more? The biggest mistake the West (and Lebanon) made was to allow Nasrallah and Hezbollah to become recognized as a POLITICAL entity. If Rafik Hariri had paid more attention to the needs of the people of South Lebanon instead of worrying primarily about the resurrection of Beirut while ignoring 40% of his people, then maybe the Levant wouldn't be the mess it's in now. The way Hezbollah gained power in South Lebanon was not by force; it was by befriending the civilians. Even if Lebanon and UNIFIL ARE able to disarm Hezbollah, it won't disappear. If Nasrallah values his life (which he probably doesn't), he would give up the arms and make Hezbollah a much stronger POLITICAL entity within the Lebanese government. Then that would really threaten the balance in the Middle East. But from what I read on Naharnet, the political arm of Hezbollah (the group that built the hospitals and schools and created social service agencies for the Shia population) has no control over the terrorist arm (Nasrallah). And even after this part is resolved, you STILL have the Palestinian question hanging in the air!

[Levia]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Yes he violated 1559, but why is Israel now having to sign another UN agreement that supercedes that?

UNIFIL, which is stationed IN Lebanon, reported to Kofi Annan about the crimes of Hezbollah. Your question should be, "Why didn't the UN do anything about it?

When Maj. Hess-von Kruedener, UNIFIL Observer, wrote that e-mail to CTV, "What I can tell you is this, we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing.

The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but rather due to tactical necessity." He wrote this regarding Israel.

From the UN base he was stationed at in Lebanon, he wrote "... gave view to the "Hezbollah static positions in and around our patrol Base."

The UN claimed there was NO Hezbollah activity in that area. But the dead Major, would've had disagreed.

And Israeli reservists and youths serving in the Army live on kibbutzim, too, among civilians.

You still regard Hezbollah as a legal Army. What about the REAL, legal, Lebanese army?

I'll repeat it until it's understood. Hezbollah is not supposed to be in Israel. They are the continuation of the Lebanese PLO, thay are backed by Iran and Syria.

But why did those 12 Israeli soldiers not heed the air raid siren (like the townspeople did) and evacuate so they could avoid being killed?
Are you saying the soldiers wanted to be killed?

Katushyas are not dependable, they're not guided.

Soldiers don't run and hide when a nation is under attack. They stand up and fight. Innocent civilians run and hide, if they can make it to shelter in the 30 seconds to 2 minutes they have.

Miulang, I know you not this ignorant.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

UNIFIL, which is stationed IN Lebanon, reported to Kofi Annan about the crimes of Hezbollah. Your question should be, "Why didn't the UN do anything about it?

OK, I'll bite: why didn't the UN do anything about it? Look at the composition of the Security Council.

You still regard Hezbollah as a legal Army. What about the REAL, legal, Lebanese army?

UH UH. I think you misunderstood what I said above. I said that Hezbollah (the terrorists) are separate from Hezbollah the POLITICAL party that got 3 of its members elected in what the US said was a free and fair election. Because Hariri neglected South Lebanon, Hezbollah is now operating as a state-within-a-state. The legal government of Lebanon is the only one that can have a recognized military force. Unfortunately for everyone, Hezbollah has 3 legal seats in that Parliament. I really wish there was some way to turn back the clock, resurrect Hariri and have him pay attention to South Lebanon. But he's dead (probably assassinated by the Syrians), Hezbollah operates as a state-within-a-state, has an illegal paramilitary force and we have a mess on our hands with too many Israeli and Lebanese lives already lost.

Miulang

P.S. I think I read somewhere that the IDF did a full investigation of that tragedy and they admitted that their troops, being very tired and under great stress, were resting in an open field (big mistake) when the missile hit their position. The 12 soldiers were the only ones killed in that attack. Residents of that village reported that the air raid sirens had been going off about every hour that day.

[Levia]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

OK, I'll bite: why didn't the UN do anything about it? Look at the composition of the Security Council.

The Security Council that China, France and the Russian Federation sit on? Friends of Islam? What's your point?

The US and UK back Israel.

UH UH. I think you misunderstood what I said above. I said that Hezbollah (the terrorists) are separate from Hezbollah the POLITICAL party that got 3 of its members elected in what the US said was a free and fair election.

I understood what you said... Lebanon is over-due for another open election. The president is 2 years extended, Parliament elections are supposed to be every 6 years - it's been 8.

If Nasrallah values his life (which he probably doesn't), he would give up the arms and make Hezbollah a much stronger POLITICAL entity within the Lebanese government.

Unfortunately for everyone, Hezbollah has 3 legal seats in that Parliament.

Well, should Nasrallah, or shouldn't Nasrallah take over the Lebanese Government? Watch the double talk, Miulang.

Nasrallah already controls Lebanese Parliament, I mean, with those gorillas on his back, don't you think? When he first said no to the ceasefire, he made it very clear to Siniora to obey the order. It's a coup - The Party of God is in control. When was the last open election?

Then that would really threaten the balance in the Middle East. But from what I read on Naharnet, the political arm of Hezbollah (the group that built the hospitals and schools and created social service agencies for the Shia population) has no control over the terrorist arm (Nasrallah).

Well, you get the conspiracies you crave, when you read Arab propaganda.

Hezbollah, is Hezbollah. Those same terrorists that know every single Lebanese in their town, know every single move they make, drive trucks filled with urban guerillas, waving the Hezbollah flag - the Hezbollah that keeps the southern Lebanese dependent on their so called "good works" but keep them living in poverty. The ones that bring around water trucks, rather than build a water system - those heros of yours, are all the same. Hezbollah, Nasrallah...

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

The Security Council that China, France and the Russian Federation sit on? Friends of Islam? What's your point?

That's my point. If China, France and Russia are friends of Islam (or looking at it another way---don't especially like the US, who is friends with Israel), why would they want to help Lebanon get rid of a friend of theirs?

I understood what you said... Lebanon is over-due for another open election. The president is 2 years extended, Parliament elections are supposed to be every 6 years - it's been 8.
Well, should Nasrallah, or shouldn't Nasrallah take over the Lebanese Government?

Of course I wouldn't want Nasrallah to be one of the 3 Hezbollah representatives on the Lebanese Parliament. If Hariri had paid more attention to South Lebanon, there wouldn't have been a need for any Hezbollah representation because the Shia would probably have backed the rest of the Lebanese government. If Nasrallah really wanted to control the Lebanese government, why didn't he run for office himself? Why did he insist on remaining a terrorist instead? Here's an interesting link with references from the UN to the composition of the Lebanese Parliament. It says there has to be "equal representation" from both Christian and Muslim resident groups. Are there any Muslims in Lebanon who aren't Shia? I don't know. However,

the non-permanence of the number of parliament members, whereby that number used to vary according to amendments made to the electoral laws. This is why we find that the number of parliament members in 1929 was 45, decreased to 25 in the 1934 parliament then rose again to 63 in the parliament of 1937, until law no. 154 was promulgated on 23 July 1992, raising the number of parliament members from 108 to 128 . This is the same number preserved by the latest electoral law promulgated in December 1999.
...The high importance given to amendments made to electoral laws usually generate a large number of conflicts between different sects and political parties in Lebanon and also between the government and legislative power, considering the possible dangerous amendment consequences regarding the number of parliament members and the balance between different active political powers in Lebanon.

Maybe somebody(ies) need to help Lebanon rewrite their Constitution! I dunno. 3 Hezbollah representatives out of 128 whio are legally elected to the Lebanese Parliament? They must have a lot of "friends" among the other 125.
I don't know how much credence you want to give to Wiki, but there was this interesting bit in there about the current political composition of Parliament which might provide a clue:

After the elections, Hariri's Future Movement party, now the country's dominant political force, nominated Fouad Siniora, a former Finance Minister, to be Prime Minister. His newly formed representative government has obtained the vote of confidence from the parliament despite the lack of representation of Gen. Aoun.

...On July 18, 2005, Lebanon has a newly elected parliament. It is dominated by an anti-Syrian coalition, yet which is pro-sectarian in its thinking, and in its disdain to Hezbollah's diplomatic initiative to disarm and join the socio-political structure. This parliament approved a motion to free Samir Geagea, who had spent most of the past 11 years in solitary confinement in an underground cell with no access to news. The motion was endorsed by pro-Syrian Lebanese President Emile Lahoud the next day. The following months proved the government's inability to begin the economic and political reforms promised to the people. Little has been done to pull the country out of the economic crisis in which it lingers still. Whilst the government loses credibility, the opposition, mainly comprised of Amal and Hezbollah (who are part of the government) and Gen. Aoun, is growing in popularity, even amongst other communities than Christians and Shi'as, not that this movement ever identified itself to religion, but only to Lebanon. Since the beginning of May, a series of demonstrations and strikes began to appear, proof of the people's discontent

Miulang

[Levia]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

That's my point. If China, France and Russia are friends of Islam, why would they want to help Lebanon get rid of a friend of theirs?

No, that wasn't your point, that was double-talk. THIS was your point.

Yes he [Nasrallah] violated 1559, but why is Israel now having to sign another UN agreement that supercedes that? Why didn't Olmert just go back to the UN Security Council and demand that it force the Lebanese government to comply with the provisions of 1559?

My reply was "UNIFIL, which is stationed IN Lebanon, reported to Kofi Annan about the crimes of Hezbollah. Your question should be, "Why didn't the UN do anything about it?"

Here's an interesting link with references frm the UN to the composition of the Lebanese Parliament. It says there has to be "equal representation" from both Christian and Muslim resident groups.

The UN say a lot of things. Kofi Annan is the most famous for accusing Israel of all sorts of crimes, only later to retract (or not) his hysterical allegations.

Maybe somebody(ies) need to help Lebanon rewrite their Constitution!

Maybe someone should help Lebanon take back control from the terorists first!

I dunno. 3 Hezbollah representatives out of 128 whio are legally elected to the Lebanese Parliament?

You do know, because you're only referring to the 3 Hezbollah cabinet members. Slick. Last I looked (though things have been changing rapidly in the Lebanese Government) there were X78X (correction - 38) Hezbollah members in Parliament - and a whole SLEW of them running around outside with rocket launchers.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Last I looked (though things have been changing rapidly in the Lebanese Government) there were X78X (correction - 38) Hezbollah members in Parliament - and a whole SLEW of them running around outside with rocket launchers.

Then I think the Lebanese government of Hariri's party has failed its people. 38 out of 128 is not a majority, so they must have "friends" in that Parliament. What I don't get (at least from reading the Wiki citation) is how that government can be anti-Syrian and yet ballsless when it comes to getting its military to do anything about enforcing 1599 on Hezbollah, which is clearly Syrian supported. What are they afraid of? Iran?

Miulang

[Levia]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Then I think the Lebanese government of Hariri has failed its people. Miulang

Miulang, Hariri is dead, you noticed that yourself. Lebanon will never be the same because Iran is in control. Has been for years now, getting stronger. When the rest of the world wakes up and sees that Islamism is very real, is the threat like never before seen in global history, only then can we do something about it.

France, the poodle shoving it's nose up Iran's a** - trying to be the good puppy, China and Russia, looking down each others gun barrels (and they are)... Somehow that tiny little land called Israel, with Arabs, Muslims, Jews, Chritians, is to blame for ALL the world's woes? ALWAYS blame the little guy.

You're lucky, I'm busy tomorrow, can't come and catch you in the act.

Here's something to read while I'm away though...

Charles Krauthammer, again, controversial to Terrorist Supporters because he is pro-Jewish State, pro-America, speaks the truth, makes very interesting points about Israel's war with Hezbollah. (Now this guy's brain is what I have a crush on, Miulang!)

Israel's Lost Moment

:Israel's war with Hezbollah is a war to secure its northern border, to defeat a terrorist militia bent on Israel's destruction, to restore Israeli deterrence in the age of the missile. But even more is at stake. Israel's leaders do not seem to understand how ruinous a military failure in Lebanon would be to its relationship with America, Israel's most vital lifeline.

:Hezbollah's unprovoked attack on July 12 provided Israel the extraordinary opportunity to demonstrate its utility by making a major contribution to America's war on terrorism.

:Unlike many of the other terrorist groups in the Middle East, Hezbollah is a serious enemy of the United States. In 1983 it massacred 241 American servicemen. Except for al-Qaeda, it has killed more Americans than any other terror organization.

:America finds itself at war with radical Islam, a two-churched monster: Sunni al-Qaeda is now being challenged by Shiite Iran for primacy in its epic confrontation with the infidel West. With al-Qaeda in decline, Iran is on the march. It is intervening through proxies throughout the Arab world -- Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas in Palestine, Moqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army in Iraq -- to subvert modernizing, Western-oriented Arab governments and bring these territories under Iranian hegemony. Its nuclear ambitions would secure these advances and give it an overwhelming preponderance of power over the Arabs and an absolute deterrent against serious counteractions by the United States, Israel or any other rival.

Now, go get some sleep. It's 3am there, your time - if you are in WA. Otherwise, it's 1pm in Iran.

I got work to do.

[Miulang]

7-10 more days...

Or however long it takes the Lebanese Army and UNIFIL forces to mobilize and occupy South Lebanon, IDF forces can withdraw and Hezbollah stops lobbing missiles at Israel and the kidnapped soldiers on both sides returned to their countries. Now both the Knesset and the Lebanese government (and Hezbollah) have signed the new UN resolution for a cease fire. There will have to be other resolutions drafted in the coming weeks because not all issues have been resolved. And that still leaves the Palestinian question (and Corporal Shalit) up in the air.

Miulang

[Levia]

No Break For Israel

Just In News: Syrians removed landmines from the Syria-Israel border. Syrian tanks are moving up to the border.

Israeli Cabinet approved the resolution, a ceasefire was in place for less than 10 hours from this posting.