Mandatory Medical Treatment

[CranBeree]

Re: Mandatory Medical Treatment

there will always the be the pro and anti camps for these vaccines and data could go on and on, but the bottom line for me is that i have 2 girls that i chose to get vaccinated.. because the risks of not being vaccinated were to great of a chance for me to take. oh and the girls...happy and healthy as can be

[salmoned]

Re: Mandatory Medical Treatment

"We concluded that the DPT shot causes a minimum of 12,000 cases of severe neurological damage every year, in addition to the 6000 deaths diagnosed as Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. The neurological damage includes juvenile-onset diabetes, so-called "congenital" blindness, deafness, mental retardation, autism, epilepsy, seizures, various kinds of paralyses and palsies, and other neurological disorders."--Harris Coulter Ph.D.

Up to 90% of the total decline in the death rate of children between 1860-1965 because of whooping cough, scarlet fever, diptheria, and measles occurred before the introduction of immunisations and antibiotics."---Dr Archie Kalokerinos, M.D.

These quoted 'numbers' are both highly suspect as well as being used in a misleading fashion. In the first case, all 6000 SIDS deaths each year are claimed to be vaccination related? I seriously doubt all 6000 SIDS victims HAD vaccinations (I know of 2, at least that didn't). In the second case, "Up to 90%' means from 0% to 90%. That does not mean the number IS 90%, only that it falls within the range of 0 to 90%. Here are 2 examples where your quotes indicate an unconscionable bias of information. By not presenting pro and con information together, you do no service to truth.

[acousticlady]

Re: Mandatory Medical Treatment

This is definitely one of those conversations I wanted to stay out of - or should I say.... refrain from getting into the argument. Growing up in a chiropractic family, there was a sign on the wall of my Dad's office which said:

"Chiropractic first, drugs second and surgery last"

There were two other signs

"Everything in moderation"

"Man puts drugs, of which he knows little, into bodies, of which he knows less, to cure diseases, of which he knows nothing at all - Voltaire"

These quotes were just a part of a life philosophy that has impacted my views on medication greatly. The thread started by asking how we felt about mandatory medical treatment. I, for one, absolutely want to be in charge of my own destiny. That being said, I also don't have a death wish either. I am also smart enough to realize that if I develop a persistent pain in my lower right side that I better let an MD see me and make a determination. On the same token, if I am told that I have terminal cancer - well then, I'd much rather enjoy my time left without Chemo and its horrific side effects (yes, I have seen them up close and way too personal - but that is for a different thread)

As far a vaccinations go - yes I believe there are unknown side effects to injecting our children at such a young age. I do feel that as long as there is not a huge outbreak of something, caution - and moderation - should be taken. When the measles vaccine first came out, virtually every child was exposed and cases were rampant. There was every reason to vaccinate everyone who had not had them. However, the number of cases today do not dictate the mandatory vaccination and I believe they should exercise a little caution. Again, everything in moderation. Two other diseases that have been effectively wiped out in this country due to vaccinations - Small Pox and Polio. Both are no longer used on a regular basis like MMR and such. Polio killed my aunt when she was only 6 years old. This was before the Polio vaccine. Had it been invented (is that the right word?), my aunt would be alive today or at least lived a long life. So, it is really a double-edged sword. It is not simply a question of yes or no to all vaccinations and/or medications. For me, I think it is a question of moderation - and maybe a little commen sense.

[Karen]

Re: Mandatory Medical Treatment

Here's a link to 1, 637 pages of reports of adverse reactions to the very new HPV vaccine, thanks to the freedom of information act and Judicial Watch getting this and making it public. Three deaths and 371 serious reactions....this is the actual records of symptoms, etc. age, etc. of the victims. There are more reactions not on the list. Other sources say five deaths asociated with the vaccine and whether there's a grand total yet, isn't clear. It will be, just isn't since this research is new. (reportedly this database is volunatary so it most likely doesn't include all reports, no matter what dates are considered.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive...ERSReports.pdf

This news article about it linked to the site, though it's found all over the net...

"HPV Vaccine Distribution Stalled by 'Adverse Reactions'
By Randy Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer/Editor
June 01, 2007

(CNSNews.com) - Legislation requiring pre-teen girls to be vaccinated against the human papilloma virus (HPV), one of the main causes of cervical cancer, has yet to be approved by any state. A conservative analyst says that's because of strong public reaction against the proposals as well as concerns about the drug itself."

Ahh, real people speaking for themselves! Here is a blog where people that have direct experience with this new vaccine have posted.
http://www.kkrasnowwaterman.com/blog...e-effects.aspx

Canadians point of view, by Jorg Mardian, RHN, CPT
http://healthinmotion.wordpress.com/...dian-children/

[Karen]

Re: Mandatory Medical Treatment

I missed actress Jenny McCarthy on Oprah a week or so ago, whenever it was on but heard from someone to day that saw it. Even my sis that is an assistant teacher with autistic children denies that the shots, MMR alone or with the others could possibly be the culprit but she's just believing what she's been trained to think.

This actress McCarthy has written a book about how she has literally almost finished a cure for her son, that he is close to normal in every way, again. She reports how she knows it was the shot and here's an excerpt from Oprah's show.

http://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200..._350_105.jhtml

[cynsaligia]

Re: Mandatory Medical Treatment

Even my sis that is an assistant teacher with autistic children denies that the shots, MMR alone or with the others could possibly be the culprit but she's just believing what she's been trained to think.

just love how you keep putting the majority of us, including your sister, who works with autistic children, in the "brainwashed" category, karen. i'll point out that the physicians and nurses at the hospitals (yes, plural) i work at would all have their own adjectives to describe your viewpoint on vaccines.

This actress McCarthy has written a book about how she has literally almost finished a cure for her son, that he is close to normal in every way, again. She reports how she knows it was the shot and here's an excerpt from Oprah's show.

ah, yes, jenny mccarthy. she of the indigo moms; she who believes that her child is a "crystal child" and therefore is amongst those who will save the world.

this parent of an autistic child says this of ms. mccarthy in his blog:

Let's hope she eventually leaves the illusory promises of quackery and new-ageism behind and learns to accept and advocate for her autistic son as he is, mostly for his sake.

yep, jenny mccarthy, former playboy playmate, and three-time nominee/one-time winner of the razzie awards...another one of karen's experts!

to quote another parent of an autistic child:

And – of course – She’s anti-vaccine – what wingnut isn’t?

[Karen]

Re: Mandatory Medical Treatment

Aww Cyn, and I too love something about you! It's the way you float downstream in this river of denial.

the parents of autistic children and of those that have been harmed in many ways by the shots tell their own story with several common threads in them. They all know what they saw, have lived and are living. She, Jenny nailed it when she said "something" happened to her child when he got the shot and she knows it. I've read quotes like this thousands of times in the past ten years, all of parents of these kids.

The truth is getting out as time passes. Doctors CURSING at parents that dare to speak up, as Jenny's ped. (most can hold their tongues and just talk condescendingly, even if a bit annoyed and can't hide it) did....oh yeah and docs will curse other docs that dare to speak the truth about these shots.

There IS no greater "expert" than one that's living it and got a story to tell. Your experts are the CDC, etc? LOL they tell on themselves and I've used them a lot in my research. They are the ones that admit the second MMR is NOT a booster and even on their own website they educate doctors about the shots, and it's quite surprising at what docs have asked them there.

Your "experts" have an AGENDA and talk about spouting "the party line." yeah...deny deny deny......what is.....happening.......as they deny it.

How'd ya like that more than 1,600 hundred pages of adverse reports on the HPV vaccine?....they denied that would happen, said that thing is safe. The shot isn't two years old, is it? cough cough.....and read the details of some of the young ladies' reports, the reports that say "not serious." GOOD GAWD.....if those types of various symptoms hit them that soon after the shot.....anyone NOT in denial and that dares to ponder this has got to wonder...

what's that shot doing to them months and years later?! Cancer? Lupus? no tellin....

and the beat goes on.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Mandatory Medical Treatment

i'll restate my point: the vast majority of people in the US have had vaccinations, and the vast majority of those with no proveable direct adverse effect. your claim is that "vaccinations clearly do harm...vaccinations are questionable at best," which is clearly shown wrong by the all the generations of people walking around all over the world without having suffered a single bad outcome from their vaccination. you're the one ignoring the 500 lb gorilla sitting on your face by dismissing the fact that the vast majority of the millions of vaccine recipients worldwide go on to live happy, perfectly healthy lives.

all your "pages of pages" were brought into question by a single post by salmoned. salmoned showed that the numbers you gave were suspect. it's telling that you've posted three times since and have ignored salmoned with the same diligence you ignore the aforesaid gorilla.

as for my experts versus yours? if, heaven forbid, this country suffer a biological warfare attack, i'm sure the vast majority (there's that pesky phrase again!) of us will listen to the cdc. you can go ahead and listen to the indigo mom. maybe her crystal child will save you.

you imply that lupus (which my friend has) and cancer (which caused the deaths of several of my and eric's family members) germinated with vaccines, and that those diseases have their causes solely rooted with vaccinations. you insult all those who have lupus and cancer and those who are doing the real work of finding causes and cures for those diseases.

the fact that you've not gotten one HTer to give you anything resembling wholehearted support must burn like hell, otherwise you'd have admitted the incontrovertable fact that vaccines have done humanity good. like i said, you've got an inexplicable compulsion to validate yourself with this issue.

you say i'm in denial. you cannot fathom how ridiculous that assertion is. i work in the health field and would never deny that there might be adverse effects associated with any medical treatment. i am also well aware of the effects of non-compliance with medical treatment. i work in risk management - i deal with real, not overblown, adverse effects every day, monday through friday, all day. tracking and trending data regarding, as well as prevention of, adverse effects and negative outcomes is my job.

so i ask again: what's your expertise? actually, you don't need to answer that question, karen. i'm sure the vast majority would agree that it's clear your expertise involves sitting at the computer and typing in search terms to find "evidence" that supports your ludicrous little blanket statements.

oh, but we're all brainwashed, right? riiiiiiight.

[Karen]

Re: Mandatory Medical Treatment

Cyn, you need to return to "debate class 101" because how many people support or don't support an argument on a thread by posting in support of it, at HT or any forum of it's size does not "make or break" truth being so, or not. Support for the facts I stated wouldn't make them true, nor does the lack of other posters clapping for them make them untrue. You've not supported your views here with this one, try again.

The entire basis of the vaccination argument remains suspect at best. Whether they even work is questionable, but of course not by those with an agenda....they spout to millions and force kids to have the shots to attend school and people give in, and then the FACTS about so much of this issue are denied publicity, with few people having the time or making the effort to research and learn even half of what I have.

Every time there is an outbreak of a childhood disease, varying each time of course in number....a large amount of kids are VACCINATED for the disease the outbreak occurs in. So..prove to me they work? You can't....you can only spout what you have been indoctrinated with, as we all have been, and some of us reject it.

Oh, cut the crap that I insult anyone and that you seem to think that you know more people with said diseases...again doesn't further your argument, as you think it should, first off these diseases are very common now. I have a dead auntie cuz of Lupus, a friend in what they say is the last stage of it, as she has organ involvement and supposedly not a year to live, and as for cancer, I can't count the victims I know or know of, with that.

My mom died of cancer, my 47yr. old bro-in-law died of his, my eight year old nephew has survived his Burkitts Lymphoma, Non-Hodgkins cancer, three first cousins so far are surviving theirs, but the one with bone cancer...probably will die of his yet, and now as of this last March, another nephew, this time a 31yr. old has an inoperable brain tumor that will eventually, without a miracle from God take him.

Yes! most likely some of them have cancer or had cancer because they complied with umpteen shots into their bods. Is it a coincidence that my generation, the baby boomers were hit with the shots soon after we were born in the fifties, for example and WE ARE the generation with an epidemic of cancer? (one in two and a half of us gets some form of it, now) Hell no, I have eyes, soul, wisdom, discernment, intuition and the common sense to know that this is not coincidence.

Childhood onset diabetes, asthmas, ADD and now Autism being so rampant is most likely, hell yes it is because of the forced, routine barrage of the Shots. I see it, you don't, and the number of people questioning this and seeing it is growing, just as the number of EXPERTS, doctors of all types, and scientists are coming out against routine immunizations.

Damn straight, brainwashed by those with an agenda....the agenda of HERD MENTALITY and the bread and butter of billions of dollars. The HPV vaccine was pushed through quickly and with a study group of only a thousand? dang...there's those numbers again, will have to look that up.

Wake up from that dreamstate...salmoned did NOT bring into question "all" of my numbers, quotes, etc....salmoned quoted one Phd and brought ito question that person's numbers of....was ti about pertussis? We those numbers nationwide? or worldwide? That Phd wasn't clear....and big whoop either way concerning how again, your argument to me is faulty in that it was ONE quote and you try to use it to ignore all of the others...by experts, by the way. Oh yes, the govt. agencies which you list that you say do your research for you are made up of just the same types of experts I am quoting. You just don't like what they say, but not working.......

Those that you are a fan of....I assure you some of their numbers are just as suspect...just like numbers we get every time there's a presidential debate, report on Iraq, or the president from either party gives his state of the union and claims he's created "x" amount of jobs...yada yada.....once you are talking about vast, govt. agencies...you wanta get into a pissin contest over numbers? LOL only if and when you think it it furthers your argument, which by the way isn't winning.

More quotes as time permits.....by people with more expertise than yourself or I, and "letters by their names" etc.

Per the title of this thread, MANDATORY medical Treatment is wrong! we are a free country and have the right to true choice....which isn't hillary saying we get to choose our doctor, or hospital but CHOICE to accept the shots, or not. A society that can choose to abort sure as hell should be able to choose to immunize those kids we let be born, or not do so.

I see it, you don't......*(the way Oprah sells books, oops......the side I stand by on this is probably awakening a sleeping giant, now that SHE allowed talk of the true harm that the shots can and often do)

[Adri]

Re: Mandatory Medical Treatment

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21839294...5773?gt1=10613


"...Parents in Prince George’s County have been ordered to appear at a special court hearing Saturday where they will be given a choice: Get their children vaccinated on the spot or risk up to 10 days in jail and fines.

It is one of the strongest efforts made by a U.S. school system to ensure its youngsters receive their shots...."

Note that the parents still do have the option of getting an exemption. The article pertains to parents who didn't get an exemption and also didn't vaccinate their kids.